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State of the Art passive full-range speakers?

Your subs should integrate fairly well! Enjoy your new speakers.
 
Ilkless said:
He has the best hope of good sound in his room by choosing speakers that exhibit attributes that make them more room agnostic (i.e. verifiably smooth dispersion). The notion that the speaker-room interaction is so arbitrary that we cannot distill general empirical principles informed by psychoacoustics is a relic of the subjective audio press.
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At his price range I'd build room first then audition. Then avoid boutique grossly overpriced speakers regardless of his budget.
 
congrats
 
Look up Monitor Audio's "Hyphn" model. That looks as high end as high end can be.
 
chouca said:
Hi all,

I'm looking for suggestions for passive main speakers to build a surround system around.

The speakers will be visible, so looks matter, and in that regard I find the Blades more attractive than the Perlistens (although the S7ts look pretty nice in natural ebony). I generally consider Sonus Faber speakers to be the world's most beautiful-looking, so the Blades are a departure, but they do look cool in a sculptural way. I don't like the look of utilitarian studio monitors, so no black boxes please. They should either be cool and sculptural, or like fine woodworking with metal accents.

I have no particular budget, but so far my short list consists of the Perlisten S7t, the KEF Blade Metas (though I'm unsure whether to go for the One or Two), and the Revel F328Be (though I don't love the wood on these). Magicos seem well-regarded, but I have yet to audition any.

The room will be 18' x 21' x 8.5', so 3213 cubic feet (91 cubic meters) and is not yet built, so any acoustical treatment that won't significantly reduce the room's size is possible if needed. I have an Anthem AVM90, which can manage up to 4 independent subs. My amplification is two Apollon PET 950 monoblocks.

I auditioned the Blade One Metas in the store for over an hour and was super impressed by their bass, imaging, and soundstaging. Try as I might, I could not convince myself that the sound was coming out of them! I've been an audiophile for 30 years and I've never experienced such a coherent acoustic image before. The bass was extended and visceral, even without a sub, which I believe helped create the very believable soundstage. As an example, in the song "Shallow" from A Star Is Born, the sense of huge live venue was totally palpable. It was incredibly effective and emotionally moving.

I've auditioned the Perlisten S7t with a subwoofer in my home for over a week now, and I can't say they have disappeared, or moved me in the same way, but it seems possible that the room is largely to blame? I'm going to try an audition in a treated room at the dealer after I return the speakers.

In a double-blind speakers shootout that I participated in recently, I liked the Revel F226Be. It turned out that the F328Be in that shootout had a problem with a very rolled-off treble, so if it's better than the 226, then I think I would have liked it a lot.

Past speakers that I have owned and enjoyed are the B&W Matrix 801 S3 in a fully-treated, dedicated media room. Stereo music was great, but the HTM1 center channel struggled to deliver intelligible dialog for movies. I also enjoy my Proac D15s in a reflective untreated family room for ambient, uncritical music listening. Timbrally, in that space, the D15s sound just right to me. I've auditioned some Sonus Faber speakers in the past and found them to have a tipped-up sibilance that really bugged me. The cabinetry was so beautiful-looking that I really wanted to like them, but couldn't.

Given all that, my questions are:

1. In other threads I have seen mentioned the existence of a thread on State of the Art Loudspeakers, but I can't find it. Does such a thread exist? I have kept up with MKR's fantastic thread.

2. Given my room size, would the Blade Ones or the Blade Twos be more appropriate? There doesn't seem to be a consensus on this and I can't audition the Blade Two Meta.

3. Which other speakers should I consider?

4. Are any Sonus Faber speakers serious contenders for state of the art, or should I forget about this brand?

5. What other speakers image and soundstage as well as the Blades? Is the Blade's disappearing act explained by measurements and if so, how?

6. Regarding my experience with the Perlistens and the Blades, I'm not looking for "which speaker is better" but rather an understanding of the meaningful differences between them and, where possible, which measurements might explain those differences. I know the S7t has less bass output, which I both hear and see in the response graph.

Phew, thanks for sticking with this, and any suggestions are appreciated!
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Why passive? They are not as good as active in so many ways (this is not to say that the ones you list are not excellent, but they are doing it the hard way if passive...) Why would you want to fiddle with hassles like subwoofers and power amps?

Kii 3 with BXT if needed for very high-volume bass. Or D&D 8c or the new Genelecs 8381. Cardiod works extremely well. Why would you want to hear your room and not the music?
 
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egellings said:
Look up Monitor Audio's "Hyphn" model. That looks as high end as high end can be.
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Those are indeed crazy-looking. Can't say that I like the aesthetics, but I'll be curious to see how they measure.
 
ferrellms said:
Why passive? They are not as good as active in so many ways (this is not to say that the ones you list are not excellent, but they are doing it the hard way if passive...) Why would you want to fiddle with hassles like subwoofers and power amps?

Kii 3 with BXT if needed for very high-volume bass. Or D&D 8c or the new Genelecs 8381. Cardiod works extremely well. Why would you want to hear your room and not the music?
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Passive because I started by purchasing two Apollon monoblocks so that I could audition speakers, and also because so many active speakers have studio monitor aesthetics, which I don't care for. I realize that both of these reasons are somewhat arbitrary, but those are the constraints that I chose.
 
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I owned F226Be, they were superb sounding speakers, probably one of the best I have heard. . .but I sold them reasons I don't want to get into because audiophiles have a lot of pride of ownership in their equipment so I don't want to upset/offend anyone.

But I have seen, touch and heard the Perlisten, they are superb quality and sounds really good when I heard them in the space I heard them.

I also heard the KEF blade meta at a dealer showroom, they were grand, but something was missing, could also be the space too.

I suspect F328Be is in the same boat as the F226Be.

Salon2 has been out of production for a LONG time, don't know why people are still talking about them. So don't even bother unless you buy used. Rumor has it, it's replacement has been delayed in R&D due to the pandemic. . .may consider waiting a bit.

Also heard the Sopra 2 and the Kanta, pretty good but over priced in my opinion.

Vandersteen was a surprise wildcard, I think the one I heard was a dipole, didn't pay too much attention to them but they did catch my eyes.

I know you are looking for passive speakers, but if that ever changes, consider Kii 3 but WITH the BXT.
 
dfk said:
I also heard the KEF blade meta at a dealer showroom, they were grand, but something was missing, could also be the space too.
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I used to commute between stereo stores owned by the place I worked for and listen to the same speakers in different sound rooms in different buildings. What may sound superb in one building may sound very different in another. So don't take those demos you had as written in stone because those speakers may well be very exciting in a different room/building.
 
Doodski said:
I used to commute between stereo stores owned by the place I worked for and listen to the same speakers in different sound rooms in different buildings. What may sound superb in one building may sound very different in another. So don't take those demos you had as written in stone because those speakers may well be very exciting in a different room/building.
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100% agreed, the space has a lot to do with it. But that is the problem with auditioning all speakers, it is at the mercy of the space.
 
dfk said:
100% agreed, the space has a lot to do with it. But that is the problem with auditioning all speakers, it is at the mercy of the space.
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I know and getting a in-house demo is a no-go for most stores. One could order online and return them within the return window but if anything happens to the speakers while in-house there could be problems. :D With the rate of HiFi stores closing down it gets more and more difficult to demo at home. I think online sales is the future of HiFi in many situations.
 
Doodski said:
I know and getting a in-house demo is a no-go for most stores. One could order online and return them within the return window but if anything happens to the speakers while in-house there could be problems. :D With the rate of HiFi stores closing down it gets more and more difficult to demo at home. I think online sales is the future of HiFi in many situations.
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The Perlisten dealer I was at offered me to take them home to audition, but I had to leave a CC with them, and those speakers are 120 some odd lbs each. No thanks.

And if you order and return within return windows, well, there's another open box, driving down the profit margin of dealers. . .then what do they do? They can't give people a as good of a deal when they are ready to buy.

The best scenario is if the dealer has a space that is well treated based on room acoustic measusurements. Then it's less of a dice roll.
 
dfk said:
The Perlisten dealer I was at offered me to take them home to audition, but I had to leave a CC with them, and those speakers are 120 some odd lbs each. No thanks.

And if you order and return within return windows, well, there's another open box, driving down the profit margin of dealers. . .then what do they do? They can't give people a as good of a deal when they are ready to buy.

The best scenario is if the dealer has a space that is well treated based on room acoustic measusurements. Then it's less of a dice roll.
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I can't count the amount of speakers that I've sold because there are so many and with the majority of customers they where concerned that upon having them at home they would not sound as good as at the store sound room. I can't blame them because it's a crap shoot for sure. At some point in time the buyer has to have a lot of faith and take them home for a test drive. I encouraged customers to take lots of time to demo speakers and really hone the choices and the final choice. I had few returns for swapping out speakers for different models. My best advice is to take in your demo music with you, sit down and really test drive them so that you have a very good idea what they can do in-store and then when settled on a choice, take it home and return it if it is not suitable. Remember to PEQ (Parametric Equalizer.) the store speakers so you can get into their abilities and needs for PEQ. If the store salesperson says we don't use tone controls or PEQ then that salesperson has issues not only with the sales support but with the beliefs about PEQ. Do you have a notebook and maybe a DAC too that you can setup with PEQ and some music and take it with you to the store so you can PEQ those speakers? Speaking of PEQ do you use it at home right now? If not you should.
 
Doodski said:
I can't count the amount of speakers that I've sold because there are so many and with the majority of customers they where concerned that upon having them at home they would not sound as good as at the store sound room. I can't blame them because it's a crap shoot for sure. At some point in time the buyer has to have a lot of faith and take them home for a test drive. I encouraged customers to take lots of time to demo speakers and really hone the choices and the final choice. I had few returns for swapping out speakers for different models. My best advice is to take in your demo music with you, sit down and really test drive them so that you have a very good idea what they can do in-store and then when settled on a choice, take it home and return it if it is not suitable. Remember to PEQ (Parametric Equalizer.) the store speakers so you can get into their abilities and needs for PEQ. If the store salesperson says we don't use tone controls or PEQ then that salesperson has issues not only with the sales support but with the beliefs about PEQ. Do you have a notebook and maybe a DAC too that you can setup with PEQ and some music and take it with you to the store so you can PEQ those speakers? Speaking of PEQ do you use it at home right now? If not you should.
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I don't have PEQ for few reasons. 1) I prefer to treat my room as a correction, my room is pretty seriously treated based on measurements (to the best I can) 2) I don't want another component in my chain if I don't have to, especially if it has to convert from analog to digital and back and forth (I know any distortion and noise introduced is minute).
 
dfk said:
I don't have PEQ for few reasons. 1) I prefer to treat my room as a correction, my room is pretty seriously treated based on measurements (to the best I can) 2) I don't want another component in my chain if I don't have to, especially if it has to convert from analog to digital and back and forth (I know any distortion and noise introduced is minute).
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PEQ these days is implemented at the PC in the digital domain. It is intended as the PC source and then PEQ occurs before the DAC.
 
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