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State of the Art passive full-range speakers?

Yes, why not . 250k and 650k prices respectively :D
For such a money , Meyer or Neumann will come and instal complete 32 channel immersive system in our friend chouca's home.
Luckily they also have cheap spray for 80 bucks, you will "truly see and hear what is on your digital media".

 
Oaudio seems too have interesting things/



Directivity Control
The Verdande project was developed to showcase our new Quad Vertex SoundField Technology. This newly developed horn profile was created to provide very even dispersion and low coloration. This technology provides an even sound characteristic within the working area of the horn.


Sensitivity: 94db
Frequency range: 26hz-20khz
Impedance: 8ohm
Horn: Quad Vertex Sound Field - Constant Directivity
Woofer: 15" ultra-linear long stroke extended range woofer
Feet: Polished stainless Steel with Tungsten resonance damping
Dimensions: 1150x500x593mm (HxWxD)
Weight: 100kg

6PD0QoP.jpeg
 
Re: dynamic capabilities, I don't think you're ever going to beat horn loaded CDs for that, but the Blades shouldn't be slouches in that regard given enough amp. They have no meaningful short term compression even at pretty high levels.

That said, I also find that actives (given enough amplification) do a better job in general with this, solely because they aren't wasting power via insertion loss. Somewhere around 1-3dB is lost through a passive crossover filter network, depending on the speaker. Shame there are so few worthwhile domestic-friendly actives worth a damn out there.
 
I'm slowly looking to upgrade my Vienna's and demo'ed a few different speakers recently (D&D 8c, Kii Three, ATC SCM50, Harbeth SHL5, Focal Sopra 2, Atalante 5 and a few others), albeit in different rooms so hard to compare. I listened to Blade 2 Metas (and LS60) in the KEF Music Gallery here. Blades are impressive speakers, I think the bass doesn't extend as low as 8Cs, but the soundstage, bass tightness and overall "clearness" of the midrange/highs is the best I heard so far. I'm also going to listen to old Blade Ones this week.
 
There is not one state of the art speaker it all depends on the category in which you want to get state of the art, like tonality, soundstage, envelopment, dynamics, deep bass and so on.

From my experience such "standard hifi" speakers like the kef blade lack dynamics and punch. Even inexpensive PA speakers are most of the time better in this regard.

If you want to get an overall very good speaker with dynamics which is considered to be overall better than the KEF Blade it gets fast very expensive.

Big horn speakers like the Acapella Hyperion or Acapella Sphäron are two or three classes above the KEF Blade and in in therms of dynamics lightyears ahead.

If you are able to compare such speakers side by side it becomes obvious that most people will like such a dynamic speaker overall much better than standard hifi speakers even if in some categories they are most of the time worse.

What is it that makes horns so expensive to make?
 
I had big, expensive horns I didn’t find them more dynamic they were however much more coloured.
Keith
 
I'm slowly looking to upgrade my Vienna's and demo'ed a few different speakers recently (D&D 8c, Kii Three, ATC SCM50, Harbeth SHL5, Focal Sopra 2, Atalante 5 and a few others), albeit in different rooms so hard to compare. I listened to Blade 2 Metas (and LS60) in the KEF Music Gallery here. Blades are impressive speakers, I think the bass doesn't extend as low as 8Cs, but the soundstage, bass tightness and overall "clearness" of the midrange/highs is the best I heard so far. I'm also going to listen to old Blade Ones this week.

The Blade One Metas did go noticeably deeper in the bass, I thought. If I was focusing on two channel with no sub, I'd get the big Blades. I haven't heard the non-Metas though.
 
I'm slowly looking to upgrade my Vienna's and demo'ed a few different speakers recently (D&D 8c, Kii Three, ATC SCM50, Harbeth SHL5, Focal Sopra 2, Atalante 5 and a few others), albeit in different rooms so hard to compare. I listened to Blade 2 Metas (and LS60) in the KEF Music Gallery here. Blades are impressive speakers, I think the bass doesn't extend as low as 8Cs, but the soundstage, bass tightness and overall "clearness" of the midrange/highs is the best I heard so far. I'm also going to listen to old Blade Ones this week.
Check out the mini blade also. I mean the LS60. Price performance hard to beat, even better with a powerful sub which will lower distortion even further and improve headroom.
 
What is it that makes horns so expensive to make?
Somebody claimed that Acapella was steps above the KEF. Surely in cost, purchase and real estate also. In regard to performance one could consider as a third opportunity a kitchen radio and add some hearing aid to push the volume subjectively.

Ha, ha, made some fun.

Are you going to listen alone mostly? Take the KEF. If group listening is the aim, take some Sonus Faber because of the radiation pattern.

Horns are made for a different approach and need some expert maintenance, another attitude. They are expensive because they are a niche product.

Edit: if the style of the KEF is worth something, then they must not be encaged in a dedicated listening room.
 
I had big, expensive horns I didn’t find them more dynamic they were however much more coloured.
Big horns definitely have big SPL reserves and low compression but I have the impression that their dynamic character is often more a result of a mid accentuated tuning seen often in such designs.
 
Check out the mini blade also. I mean the LS60. Price performance hard to beat, even better with a powerful sub which will lower distortion even further and improve headroom.
I did! Compared them head to head in the same room. They sound somewhat similar but at the same time very different. Blade's coaxial sits much higher, which is very noticible in the soundstage. Also Blades' lower frequencies are much cleaner. But Blades of course are 4-5x the price of LS60s and requires an amp/dac/etc. Considering you don't need to invest into electronics at all, LS60 are very good speakers for it's price I think
 
Somebody claimed that Acapella was steps above the KEF. Surely in cost, purchase and real estate also. In regard to performance one could consider as a third opportunity a kitchen radio and add some hearing aid to push the volume subjectively.

Ha, ha, made some fun.

Are you going to listen alone mostly? Take the KEF. If group listening is the aim, take some Sonus Faber because of the radiation pattern.

Horns are made for a different approach and need some expert maintenance, another attitude. They are expensive because they are a niche product.

Edit: if the style of the KEF is worth something, then they must not be encaged in a dedicated listening room.

Mostly it will be 2-3 of us listening, but sometimes just one listener. Which Sonus Faber speakers are you suggesting?

(note that all of this is moot, since I have already purchased the Blade Two Meta and five of the KEF in-walls)
 
Yes, why not . 250k and 650k prices respectively :D
For such a money , Meyer or Neumann will come and instal complete 32 channel immersive system in our friend chouca's home.
And then listening to stereo recordings on equipment that is not state-of-the-art for stereo..

Meyer sound uses compression drivers and PA drivers which have their weaknesses and Neumanns biggest speaker is so small that it is laughable to even consider such a speaker could compete with bigger system in terms of dynamics...

Most of the people who buy such big high price speakers like the acapella had previously tried almost anything on the planet and ended up with these speakers since they are for many people overall the best speakers you can buy.

Luckily they also have cheap spray for 80 bucks, you will "truly see and hear what is on your digital media".

Some products are strange, nevertheless most of their loudspeakers are very good with a lot state of the art engineering in it. For example the used some diffraction waveguide to extent the high frequency beam before any other company like seas.

Here at ASR most people sems to think in a black white scheme when it comes to high end companies. Like expensive cables are considered to be nonsense so everything has to be bad from a company which uses or sells such cables. In reality there is a lot gray and almost no black and white...

What is it that makes horns so expensive to make?
Very big, very heavy and far away from any mass production so you pay a higher amount of the research and development.

Big horns definitely have big SPL reserves and low compression but I have the impression that their dynamic character is often more a result of a mid accentuated tuning seen often in such designs.
From my experience it is a combination of a more uniform narrow beam and its room interaction, low compression and the wave front form. While the beam and the wave form are not completely independent form another.

I had big, expensive horns I didn’t find them more dynamic they were however much more coloured.
Keith
Strange almost anyone who had some listening experience can refer to the higher dynamics of many many horn speakers. The coloration is the main problem of most horn speakers. The horn "oonkk" is unpleasant and harder to avoid completely. Therefore it isn't easy at all to develop good horn speakers. To get the good dynamic behavior of a horn speaker on the other hand is pretty easy to achieve if you build bigger.
 
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Companies who make ‘boutique’ cables is pretty much black and white they are charlatans.
Keith
 
Companies who make ‘boutique’ cables is pretty much black and white they are charlatans.
Keith
Indeed. Imagine Genelec selling audiophile spray for CD’s. :D
 
Shouldn't the latest MoFi SourcePoint 888 - a relative bargain at $5000/pair? - be nominated for a spot in the SOTA Passives category?
[The above is my obtuse method of doing so; though, 3 years late to this post]

OT:
Lol, as Foreigner aptly put it in 1979 -- "Blinded by Science".
... because I've developed the mathematical formula to tell us if we are actually enjoying the taste of our food, or not!:cool:
Foreigner? I would have given you a +1 if you had referenced Thomas Dolby's "She Blinded Me With Science" instead.

LoL, as Dan Rather was asked "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"... What's the formula, MarcT?"
 
Hi all,

I'm looking for suggestions for passive main speakers to build a surround system around.

The speakers will be visible, so looks matter, and in that regard I find the Blades more attractive than the Perlistens (although the S7ts look pretty nice in natural ebony). I generally consider Sonus Faber speakers to be the world's most beautiful-looking, so the Blades are a departure, but they do look cool in a sculptural way. I don't like the look of utilitarian studio monitors, so no black boxes please. They should either be cool and sculptural, or like fine woodworking with metal accents.

I have no particular budget, but so far my short list consists of the Perlisten S7t, the KEF Blade Metas (though I'm unsure whether to go for the One or Two), and the Revel F328Be (though I don't love the wood on these). Magicos seem well-regarded, but I have yet to audition any.

The room will be 18' x 21' x 8.5', so 3213 cubic feet (91 cubic meters) and is not yet built, so any acoustical treatment that won't significantly reduce the room's size is possible if needed. I have an Anthem AVM90, which can manage up to 4 independent subs. My amplification is two Apollon PET 950 monoblocks.

I auditioned the Blade One Metas in the store for over an hour and was super impressed by their bass, imaging, and soundstaging. Try as I might, I could not convince myself that the sound was coming out of them! I've been an audiophile for 30 years and I've never experienced such a coherent acoustic image before. The bass was extended and visceral, even without a sub, which I believe helped create the very believable soundstage. As an example, in the song "Shallow" from A Star Is Born, the sense of huge live venue was totally palpable. It was incredibly effective and emotionally moving.

I've auditioned the Perlisten S7t with a subwoofer in my home for over a week now, and I can't say they have disappeared, or moved me in the same way, but it seems possible that the room is largely to blame? I'm going to try an audition in a treated room at the dealer after I return the speakers.

In a double-blind speakers shootout that I participated in recently, I liked the Revel F226Be. It turned out that the F328Be in that shootout had a problem with a very rolled-off treble, so if it's better than the 226, then I think I would have liked it a lot.

Past speakers that I have owned and enjoyed are the B&W Matrix 801 S3 in a fully-treated, dedicated media room. Stereo music was great, but the HTM1 center channel struggled to deliver intelligible dialog for movies. I also enjoy my Proac D15s in a reflective untreated family room for ambient, uncritical music listening. Timbrally, in that space, the D15s sound just right to me. I've auditioned some Sonus Faber speakers in the past and found them to have a tipped-up sibilance that really bugged me. The cabinetry was so beautiful-looking that I really wanted to like them, but couldn't.

Given all that, my questions are:

1. In other threads I have seen mentioned the existence of a thread on State of the Art Loudspeakers, but I can't find it. Does such a thread exist? I have kept up with MKR's fantastic thread.

2. Given my room size, would the Blade Ones or the Blade Twos be more appropriate? There doesn't seem to be a consensus on this and I can't audition the Blade Two Meta.

3. Which other speakers should I consider?

4. Are any Sonus Faber speakers serious contenders for state of the art, or should I forget about this brand?

5. What other speakers image and soundstage as well as the Blades? Is the Blade's disappearing act explained by measurements and if so, how?

6. Regarding my experience with the Perlistens and the Blades, I'm not looking for "which speaker is better" but rather an understanding of the meaningful differences between them and, where possible, which measurements might explain those differences. I know the S7t has less bass output, which I both hear and see in the response graph.

Phew, thanks for sticking with this, and any suggestions

Salon 2, Blade, Giya G2. I own the Salons, could happily live with Giyas or Blades.

Philharmonic Audio Floor Standers at a lower price point.
 
Shouldn't the latest MoFi SourcePoint 888 - a relative bargain at $5000/pair? - be nominated for a spot in the SOTA Passives category?
[The above is my obtuse method of doing so; though, 3 years late to this post]

OT:

Foreigner? I would have given you a +1 if you had referenced Thomas Dolby's "She Blinded Me With Science" instead.

LoL, as Dan Rather was asked "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"... What's the formula, MarcT?"
Lol, I was into Foreigner back in the day, not Thomas Dolby. My formula that determines if we are actually enjoying our food is proprietary, of course! It has the ability to completely eliminate expectation bias, so that I can more confidently know if I like the taste of my food or not.
 
Mostly it will be 2-3 of us listening, but sometimes just one listener. Which Sonus Faber speakers are you suggesting?

(note that all of this is moot, since I have already purchased the Blade Two Meta and five of the KEF in-walls)
@chouca - please share your experience and thoughts about the Blade Two Metas.
 
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