Finding 'good enough'

[djb]

Hello. I'm 53 and really enjoy this hobby. Also enjoy shootings sports, travel, and Bourbon. I have come to the happy conclusion that there really is a mid level where good enough is just that. I've been driving myself semi nuts trying to make decision on upgraded speakers for my modest home theater l/r/c. I picked up a pair of open box Elac DB63 speakers for $350 and put them right on top of my Lintons just to plug them in and get a first impression. Honestly, they sounded great, and being honest when I brought my sub in, I'm not confident I could always pick which speaker was playing. I've demoed speakers up to Kef Blade II level, so have heard some very expensive speakers.

There are $25 bottled in bond bourbons that crush big name whisky's that bourbon hunters seek out and over pay for. A buddy has a completely over engineered German rifle costing several thousand $$$ that I think he is still trying to convince himself that he likes. It doesn't function any better than most $800 rifles.

I guess I am just reassuring myself, and less experienced folks on the acoustic journey, that most quality mid grade stuff really gets you 95% of the enjoyment and be satisfied when you find it. Resist the FOMO. You are probably only missing out on potential 'prestige' and a bigger CC bill especially with compromised hearing due to age or average living spaces since few have an acoustically isolated listening room.

Curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[Chagall]

Choosing “good enough” is very liberating.

 

[respice finem]

I'm 5 years older, my last FOMO was to decently treat my listening room.
I have none regarding audio hardware, so I'm here just for fun, learning and not forget my English.

Getting older sometimes has its advantages in this regard, at some point you just know, spending a lot of money on "even better" hardware "for the last 2%" won't get you much, practically. Being very young has advantages too, lack of money can prevent silly decisions (which was the case with me).

Your rifle reference is a good one. I was a (non-pro) sports shooter for decades, it's really funny sometimes.
One comes to training, with a rifle that costs 10000 €, the other one with one for 500 € (bought used) and wins.
The obligatory excuse: "something is wrong with the rifle". So they swap rifles, same outcome... (ouch)
Such easy "elimination diagnosis" is not really possible in audio, hence the "voodoo" deluge.

IMHO the key factor for breaking out of FOMO and such is, to understand one's own limitations.
The audio industry is subliminally suggesting, everything could somehow be heard, which is never the case, we are humans, not Gods.
And, that music could only be enjoyed in top quality, which also isn't true (IMHO).

On the other hand, the better has always been the enemy of the good, and it's no "sin" to buy something you like, even if it is only for the look and feel.

Ich brauche es nicht, sprach der Rabe, es ist nur schön, wenn ich es habe (sorry too difficult to translate)

 

[Mort]

really gets you 95% of the enjoyment and be satisfied when you find it. Resist the FOMO.

It's so subjective as to be useless. I went for $10k Genelec 8361a and got to 99% and am much more satisfied.

 

[djb]

I'm 5 years older, my last FOMO was to decently treat my listening room.
I have none regarding audio hardware, so I'm here just for fun, learning and not forget my English.

Getting older sometimes has its advantages in this regard, at some point you just know, spending a lot of money on "even better" hardware "for the last 2%" won't get you much, practically. Being very young has advantages too, lack of money can prevent silly decisions (which was the case with me).

Your rifle reference is a good one. I was a (non-pro) sports shooter for decades, it's really funny sometimes.
One comes to training, with a rifle that costs 10000 €, the other one with one for 500 € (bought used) and wins.
The obligatory excuse: "something is wrong with the rifle". So they swap rifles, same outcome... (ouch)
Such easy "elimination diagnosis" is not really possible in audio, hence the "voodoo" deluge.

IMHO the key factor for breaking out of FOMO and such is, to understand one's own limitations.
The audio industry is subliminally suggesting, everything could somehow be heard, which is never the case, we are humans, not Gods.
And, that music could only be enjoyed in top quality, which also isn't true (IMHO).

On the other hand, the better has always been the enemy of the good, and it's no "sin" to buy something you like, even if it is only for the look and feel.

Ich brauche es nicht, sprach der Rabe, es ist nur schön, wenn ich es habe (sorry too difficult to translate)

I was trying to not ramble on too much. You make a great point about age. Younger folks have better ears but often not the means for expensive gear. Later we have more disposable income, but can we still hear well enough to really appreciate that 2-5% audio improvement? The irony of aging....

As for the shooting...it's a poor carpenter that blames his tools

 

[Mort]

Later we have more disposable income, but can we still hear well enough to really appreciate that 2-5% audio improvement?

Sure you can: Bass, directivity, soundstage clarity. It's just some high treble we loose.

 

[respice finem]

Some tools are really better than others, but many are, well... overestimated (and overpriced).
As an expensive watch, which is nice, but it doesn't show better time either.

I know a few musicians (two in Germany, two in Poland), only one of them has a "fancy" home stereo (really).
They don't seem to need it.

 

[respice finem]

Sure you can: Bass, directivity, soundstage clarity. It's just some high treble we loose.

Yes. But, in some cases (in my case at least) room treatment + DSP yields more in terms of music reproduction quality than a "million dollars" in electronics, and sometimes even in loudspeakers.

 

[Mart68]

'Good enough' for me was something along the lines of what you get from the big monitors in studios. So quite a high bar but got there.

Plus I care what the equipment looks like so that cost extra. Could have done it cheaper without that criteria but not by massive amounts.

At 56 I've got no desire to mess with it any further. Not unless I hear something substantially better. Still, I'm going to an audio show tomorrow so never say never.

 

[respice finem]

Music and audio as a hobby is very liberal (in its true sense). Everybody is free to do as they like.

I am happy with studio monitors in relatively nearfield setups, and headphones. Nothing luxurious or extravagant.
Being happy with one's own "good enough" is a blessing.

 

[pdfield34]

Especially when you add room correction and deal appropriately with the low-end ("when I brought my sub in" ding! ding!).

That said, I'm currently thinking that bookshelf speakers - even with subs - just can't replace the experience with floor standers.

Also, I don't think I'll be able to resist the temptation to experiment with moderately priced (<$3,000) amps.

 

[Chagall]

It's so subjective as to be useless. I went for $10k Genelec 8361a and got to 99% and am much more satisfied.

I don’t think ‘good enough’ is a number; it's more like a state of mind. It’s about knowing there’s always something out there, but still being satisfied with what you have. So the question is - would a $20k or $30k Genelec actually make you more satisfied?

 

[Mort]

I don’t think ‘good enough’ is a number; it's more like a state of mind. It’s about knowing there’s always something out there, but still being satisfied with what you have. So the question is - would a $20k or $30k Genelec actually make you more satisfied?

I dunno, that's my point. Seems useless to try to attach anything but pure personal preferences to the concept.

At the moment $10k Genelecs are good enough, more than good enough actually. I'm thrilled with that.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

It depends on personal preference. I've always looked for the best sound that I can afford. The "can afford" part is very important to me. I try to pay a lot of attention to things like the limits of human hearing. As many here have pointed out, the vast majority of electronic components can go way beyond the limits of human hearing. My use case is relatively low volume listening so my power requirement for decent dynamic range is relatively low. An honest 40 wpc from an amp has always been enough for me. I wish I could afford better speakers. $1000 is about my limit for a pair of speakers. My current ones are considerably cheaper. I'm pretty happy with them. One thing I've noticed about my living room system is that movies sound better to me than they do at my local theaters.

I also recognize that audio is a hobby and for many the object is to get the best possible gear regardless of diminishing returns. That also makes sense to me. When my dad passed, 20 years ago, I used part of my inheritance to buy a Collings guitar which sells for about $6600 new today, $3000 when I bought it. I love it. It's a better instrument than my level of technique can exploit but still sounds wonderful. You can buy guitars at half the price that sound very nearly as good. I've also played $10 - $20K instruments in stores. Even though I can't make them sound any better than my Collings I still drool. I understand the sheer fun of a high end amp with beautiful industrial design or speakers that combine form and function in an artistic way.

 

[tw 2022]

Hello. I'm 53 and really enjoy this hobby. Also enjoy shootings sports, travel, and Bourbon. I have come to the happy conclusion that there really is a mid level where good enough is just that. I've been driving myself semi nuts trying to make decision on upgraded speakers for my modest home theater l/r/c. I picked up a pair of open box Elac DB63 speakers for $350 and put them right on top of my Lintons just to plug them in and get a first impression. Honestly, they sounded great, and being honest when I brought my sub in, I'm not confident I could always pick which speaker was playing. I've demoed speakers up to Kef Blade II level, so have heard some very expensive speakers.

There are $25 bottled in bond bourbons that crush big name whisky's that bourbon hunters seek out and over pay for. A buddy has a completely over engineered German rifle costing several thousand $$$ that I think he is still trying to convince himself that he likes. It doesn't function any better than most $800 rifles.

I guess I am just reassuring myself, and less experienced folks on the acoustic journey, that most quality mid grade stuff really gets you 95% of the enjoyment and be satisfied when you find it. Resist the FOMO. You are probably only missing out on potential 'prestige' and a bigger CC bill especially with compromised hearing due to age or average living spaces since few have an acoustically isolated listening room.

Curious to hear your thoughts.

i agree with most of your thoughts ... i have similar circumstances , but am a bit older (62) .. i *had* serious upgraditis for a while , mostly trying to find "end game" speakers at $1000 or less ... Dennis Murphy of all folks ( who could have sold me incremental "upgrades") talked me off the ledge.. i've got a pair of emotiva b1 's he modded that are incredibly transparent , but lack a bit of refinement, paired with an svs sub in one set up .. if i don't focus on it's weaknesses (and there really aren't many) i'm perfectly happy ... my other set up is infinity crescendo 3006's (circa 1993-ish) paired with an 8 in emotiva sub.. i found the infinity's on a sidewalk, they were a great investment (lol) .... btw , at some point i probably will upgrade to Philharmonic bmr's , i have heard those and they are easily the best speaker i've heard anywhere near a price point i can justify....also one last thought: i echo Erin's conclusion that well designed older speakers hold up well (based on the infinity's i have)...

 

[Behrelec 37]

1237/1238/1234/1235a and the latest 8381a

in the living room of an enthusiast, hi-fi listening is going to have a significantly better satisfaction guarantee than any (83xx ones, or other) aluminum speaker. I'll bet when we start questioning the terms. You can't get better musical enjoyment in life from anything that a person can do today, when you compare stereo playback to different sound sources in terms of different genres of music, how much different styles adapt to the 12xx speakers of the master series well enough.

 

[Behrelec 37]

Adding to the previous article, these models are even better and more effective when you add Genelec's own subwoofer or even a pair, and the full sound range is listened to digitally from the source to the speakers. And of course, the glm room correction has been made and filed so sharply and salty-sweetly soft and pleasant that joy is noticeable in the ears of many listeners every single time they listen to music played on them.

These tools effectively kill all the stress from your life if you have it.

 

[Behrelec 37]

The difference to the aluminum series comes from a larger soundstage, more believable geometric dimensions in the soundstages/rhythms themselves, and live recording events where the sound creates a more dynamic and gapless realism from the environment than the ones 83xx series, which in terms of live sound is unfortunately just too energy-light to express events correctly.

The 83xx aluminum series of course captures small details even better in the near field than the master series, but then the soundstage as a whole decreases in relation to the distance when listening behind the speakers in recordings. The master series' ability to maintain depth and credibility is much better and more fulfilling and inspiring to listen to.

 

[Behrelec 37]

I didn't include the 1236a model in this collection now because most hifi enthusiasts don't have large enough living rooms to benefit from the maximum distance speakers can provide.

The 1236a requires a listening distance, unlike the smaller models in most living rooms where they would work more optimally.

 

[Multicore]

The psychology of desire in consumer (surplus to needs) goods is very interesting. I've read in more than one place that the anthropologists and archeologists report that in ancient societies that had no accumulation of dynastic wealth, the most sought after surplus goods were rare and exotic.

In this hobby profit is clearly a strong motive and marketing often ties higher margins to higher exclusivity. And my wife, who took some marketing classes, said one teacher told her that marketing is all about turning wants into needs. I find that interesting too. I think many of us end up settling with gear that we can rationalize as a balance of budget and need. But really there's no need for any of it -- its all surplus.