Speakers w/Full-range Drivers

[Salt]

Would you buy a driver based upon published data alone?

What alternatively?

 

[Ktacos]

Would you buy a driver based upon published data alone?

Yeah, that's pretty much what everyone does. T/S parameters are kind of important.

 

[zman01]

@Salt, @Ktacos,

My understanding is that member Polutrygeist was referring to the FR measurement data, and not the T/S parameters.

And by "Leap of Faith" he was suggesting "just listen to them" as opposed to go over the measured frequency response data.

Most of the wide-band (aka full range) drivers do not have smooth FR curves; there are directivity issues also. But their adherents love them, and you will find a number of these folks have moved away from their previous multi-way system setups and enjoy single wide band speakers.

If you go by FR measurement data, it can all look a bit unscientific... but my guess is that there are folks who prefer the wide-band driver sound despite the warts and all. And of course, not all wide-band drivers measure alike.

I experimented with wide-band drivers; I eventually moved on to multiway. That is based on my listening preferences. I know people who prefer wide-bad/full range driver sound. I have a wide-band aficionado friend listen to my system, and he finds them much less involving; he misses the additional "detail" that wide-band drives often bring to the peaks in certain frequencies. He misses some of the forward presentation....

I have discussed with him about this and the conclusion is that he wants to have a presentation of the music that appeals to him, and is not bothered much about the faithful/neutral reproduction of the material as recorded. With his focal forward single wide-band driver with 300B SET he gets what he wants, and not with my more neutral 2 way / 3 way speakers with a low distortion amplifier driving them.

i am in no way implying that member Poultrygeist has similar preferences/reasoning to that of my friend; it was just a personal experience and example of two differing point of views on audio enjoyment.

So, to each their own...

Coming back to measured FR data - looking at those it is difficult to get excited about listening to wide-band driver systems. There are FAST (Full Range ASissTed with woofer) or WAW (Wide-band Assisted with Woofer), where the wide-band driver acts as the mid-tweet, and the woofer does the heavy lifting of the low frequencies. With a FAST/WAW the wide-band is under much less pressure and can reproduce sound at higher SPLs with less distortion, improving the headroom. However, that does not magically solve the other shortcomings of the FR and directivity.

I have built WAWs with more neutral measuring wide-band drivers (Visaton B80, Vifa/Tympany TC9FD) as mid-tweets along with a Dayton RS225 woofer and found them enjoyable. The 3" wide-band drivers would be of course bass shy, and using them in WAW results in a much more capable speaker. I still prefer my DIY 3 way, but hey I am biased in my own way.

 

[Ktacos]

My understanding is that member Polutrygeist was referring to the FR measurement data, and not the T/S parameters.

With enough experience you can pick a driver from it's IEC response alone and ignore most of the T/S parameters.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Anyway, with regard to speakers, over the last few years I’ve increasingly been drawn to the sound of crossover-less (or minimalist) designs ....

So finally to my point: At Capital AudioFest this year I heard a pair of the Audience 1+1 speakers and found them remarkable. They use two full range drivers and two passive radiators in each small box.

Loudspeaker with two full-range drivers can not possibly be a minimalist design. - that is a logical fallacy.
Loudspeakers with single full-range driver do have a certain charm, but with obvious limits.
I heard very expensive Voxativ Ampegio (single full-range in horn enclosure) - excellent midrange and high bass, but no low bass and harsh high frequencies.
Lowther was especially big disappointment...
etc...

 

[Poultrygeist]

Loudspeaker with two full-range drivers can not possibly be a minimalist design. - that is a logical fallacy.
Loudspeakers with single full-range driver do have a certain charm, but with obvious limits.
I heard very expensive Voxativ Ampegio (single full-range in horn enclosure) - excellent midrange and high bass, but no low bass and harsh high frequencies.
Lowther was especially big disappointment...
etc...

Here are some minimalistic hybrids.

 

[Poultrygeist]

How much you might or might not appreciate crossover-less FRSD speakers depends upon the type of music you favor. For me it's primarily small group acoustic jazz. Hard rock or complex orchestral music is more appropriate for multi-way speakers. I love micro detail and hearing the spit build up in Miles's trumpet or the tinkling of wine glass at the start of Pawn Shop Jazz is a real kick. A highly resolving SET amp driving full rangers gives me that in spades.

 

[zman01]

Poultrygeist.

My experience is similar - acoustic, girl and guitar, small jazz ensembles - these genres can be very engaging with single wide-band driver speaker and SET tube amp. However, most of my musical preferences tend towards the more complex and heavier side, and I enjoy those on a multi-way setup with more neutral speaker and amps.

You have a nice collection - any new builds?

 

[Ktacos]

A speaker that only excels in certain content is not really a good speaker imo.

 

[zman01]

A speaker that only excels in certain content is not really a good speaker imo.

I don't think anyone is making a claim here of "good" in absolute term or measurement standard.

Full-range aficionados find them "good" as the the sound is to their liking on the types of music they prefer, at the SPLs they listen to, and the domestic setting (room size, listening distance, position etc.) they have.

For myself - I found them too limited for my music and my requirements, and I moved on to something else. So they were not "good" enough for my needs/requirements.

 

[Poultrygeist]

A speaker that only excels in certain content is not really a good speaker imo.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Poultrygeist.

My experience is similar - acoustic, girl and guitar, small jazz ensembles - these genres can be very engaging with single wide-band driver speaker and SET tube amp. However, most of my musical preferences tend towards the more complex and heavier side, and I enjoy those on a multi-way setup with more neutral speaker and amps.

You have a nice collection - any new builds?

I hope to soon start work on the slot loaded open baffles designed by Nelson Pass

 

[richard12511]

Somewhere back in this thread I thought it was said that the seamless integration of a full range driver is better in ways. I can understand that although I am inclined to thinking full range = lacking stuff.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of full range drivers in comparison to true point source coax speakers like the LS50 or Mofi 10, or even virtual point sources like Genelec Ones or Kef Blades?

 

[Doodski]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of full range drivers in comparison to true point source coax speakers like the LS50 or Mofi 10, or even virtual point sources like Genelec Ones or Kef Blades?

LoL>.. I ws more asking than telling myself in my comment. I detailed the comment poorly.

 

[richard12511]

LoL>.. I ws more asking than telling myself in my comment. I detailed the comment poorly.

Yeah I wasn’t necessarily asking just you, but more the forum. Your post just sparked the light bulb in my head that made me ask the question.

I’m genuinely curious what advantages/disadvantages a full range driver has in comparison to point source coax speakers.

 

[mhardy6647]

The only 'quantifiable' advantage of an extended range single driver is simplicity.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Glow in the Dark Audio - Thoughts and opinions of a tube audio/single driver junkie

Glow in the Dark Audio showcases Kevin Davis’ personal collection of small-scale, DIY and one of a kind hifi audio gear, with a focus on single ended and push pull tube amplifiers and full range open baffle speakers.

glowinthedarkaudio.com