Show us your bicycles!

[MRC01]

As someone who mostly visits forums where people work on vintage bicycles, we just don't know yet. ...

My friend just donated his 1999 Trek OCLV frame (same type of frame that survived the torture test that killed several steel frames, linked above). 24 years old with at least 30,000 miles on it, still in excellent condition. Yet we don't know how durable well designed and built CF frames area? Also, that particular frame had alloy dropouts bonded to the carbon. They did it right, keeping the materials separated, avoiding redox.

In theory carbon frames can last forever when well taken care off but most early carbon was lugged or improperly designed. ... We learned a hell of a lot in the meantime. ... There is of course a survivorship bias going on with other materials. ...

Certainly, many of the early CF frames had problems, like 30+ years ago. I also see some manufacturers still using alloy spoke nipples with carbon rims, which is a no-no. Redox will corrode the spoke nipples, they will crack and break. That is an example of poor design / engineering.

 

[pseudoid]

...just general belligerence because the bike loves to go fast downhill,...

I don't blame my bike because it is me that loves to go fast... downhill... or otherwise!
The only problem with fast downhills... is the arduous work of the imminent (pre/post) uphill.
My belligerent act is ignoring the fact that I can attain 30.7MPH downhill on my eBike that probably is not a wise move to begin with!

 

[Chrispy]

My friend just donated his 1999 Trek OCLV frame (same type of frame that survived the torture test that killed several steel frames, linked above). 24 years old with at least 30,000 miles on it, still in excellent condition. Yet we don't know how durable well designed and built CF frames area? Also, that particular frame had alloy dropouts bonded to the carbon. They did it right, keeping the materials separated, avoiding redox.


Certainly, many of the early CF frames had problems, like 30+ years ago. I also see some manufacturers still using alloy spoke nipples with carbon rims, which is a no-no. Redox will corrode the spoke nipples, they will crack and break. That is an example of poor design / engineering.

I still have my replacement OCLV frame (originally a Trek 9800, but due failure of bonding of bottom bracket they replaced frame with a 99 Pro Issue) but even that one has had an issue with the dropout bonding (and then Trek saying I don't have a real lifetime warranty). I don't use it now much as the derailleur hanger is fried and is non-replaceable (it's a single speed now). My Trek 2300 (carbon tubes, aluminum lugs) has never missed a beat but I haven't beat it up off road either. I've also messed up a few metal frame mountain bikes, too, tho. Never saw the need for carbon rims, and have seen a few failures on others' bikes. My last two Santa Cruz carbon frames (Hightower, Heckler) haven't been an issue but they're still "young" and I don't ride as much/as hard as I used to....

Time will tell....

ps been looking at some of the analysis of the Titan's failure....and how that was built. A lot different, but still somewhat an evolution in use of carbon fiber....

 

[MudFlap]

My "Rosebud"

 

[pseudoid]

My "Rosebud"
View attachment 300301

Ouch!
Your 'Rosebud" just gave me a flashback to Summer of 1970.

 

[Count Arthur]

Even though I don't need one, I kind of want one:

I also want to live in the Netherlands.

 

[MudFlap]

Ouch!
Your 'Rosebud" just gave me a flashback to Summer of 1970.

I traded it for a BB Gun and a Jimi Hendrix album.

Great Album / Terrible Trade

I regret it to this day.

 

[pseudoid]

Even though I don't need one, I kind of want one:
I also want to live in the Netherlands.

*No, you *don't want to do *neither...
I had discussed these (earlier in this thread) but they are the proverbial "soccer mom" vehicles on our SoCal beaches... like the mini-vans.

I would not consider Netherlands but I would like to see a trick e-trike. SOTA level 'trick' and without the optional studded snow tires...

 

[thewas]

What do you think about how carbon frames react to stress in each video? @thewas any chance you can ask your colleague?

Science doesn't really care about nebulous marketing "advancements made in the industry" and according "spectacular" Youtube clips, in the end the material science is what really counts and there are ductile and brittle materials which behave very differently at overloading:

Of course someone can oversize a component so much that even in a typical amateur abuse/overload it won't get into that region but that is due to weight and cost reason typically not the case.

Its strange when in a forum like ASR were similar strategies and marketing attempts in audio are not believed except if proven with objective data in other fields of interest such an approach isn't used.

 

[Doodski]

Science doesn't really care about nebulous marketing "advancements made in the industry" and according "spectacular" Youtube clips, in the end the material science is what really counts and there are ductile and brittle materials which behave very differently at overloading:

Of course someone can oversize a component so much that even in a typical amateur abuse/overload it won't get into that region but that is due to weight and cost reason typically not the case.

Its strange when in a forum like ASR were similar strategies and marketing attempts in audio are not believed except if proven with objective data in other fields of interest such an approach isn't used.

I have no idea if this is snake oil or fact but the last chromoly mountain bike frame that I rode was springy and cushy to ride and the newest Kona hybrid/mountain bike that I bought was a alloy of aluminum and it rode like a rock. I sold it off because I hated it's harsh ride. The Kona had skinny 700c rims and tires that sucked compared to a 26" with Continental Town and Country 2.25" wide tires on the chromoly ride. Is the chromoly springyness science based or is it my imagination?

 

[MRC01]

... Its strange when in a forum like ASR were similar strategies and marketing attempts in audio are not believed except if proven with objective data in other fields of interest such an approach isn't used.

Objective data? Earlier I linked to a bike frame torture test applied to frames of various materials -- real-world measurements.

Of course someone can oversize a component so much that even in a typical amateur abuse/overload it won't get into that region but that is due to weight and cost reason typically not the case.

Yep, and this is true of all materials, not just carbon. For durability it must be sufficiently over-built for its intended application. For example one of the steel frames that failed in the test I mentioned, was a well known expensive name brand, designed and built for light weight, insufficiently oversized to use your phrase.

 

[thewas]

I have no idea if this is snake oil or fact but the last chromoly mountain bike frame that I rode was springy and cushy to ride and the newest Kona hybrid/mountain bike that I bought was a alloy of aluminum and it rode like a rock. I sold it off because I hated it's harsh ride. The Kona had skinny 700c rims and tires that sucked compared to a 26" with Continental Town and Country 2.25" wide tires on the chromoly ride. Is the chromoly springyness science based or is it my imagination?

Such is usually hard to tell as the dimensions and geometry of the frame are usually different and influence the compliance and vibrational behaviour a lot. So unless they had the exact same dimensions it wouldn't be reasonably to draw any conclusions on material. If I remember correctly aluminium based alloys are typically supposed though to have higher internal material damping than steel based ones.

 

[thewas]

Objective data? Earlier I linked to a bike frame torture test applied to frames of various materials -- real-world measurements.

Measurements which don't show the behaviour at massive overload, just the stiffness and overload limits which are very different things. As I wrote above someone can of course oversize a carbon part as much that it won't get in its critical region compared to a less stiff metal part, but still that doesn't change the brittle vs ductile character at their respective overloads.

 

[MRC01]

I have no idea if this is snake oil or fact but the last chromoly mountain bike frame that I rode was springy and cushy to ride and the newest Kona hybrid/mountain bike that I bought was a alloy of aluminum and it rode like a rock. ...

This is a common observation. Aluminum alloy frames use oversized tubing to compensate for the softer material, which makes them stiffer. Steel is stronger and more elastic, so the frames usually have smaller diameter tubes giving greater compliance. Stiffness and strength are not the same thing.

 

[Doodski]

Such is usually hard to tell as the dimensions and geometry of the frame are usually different and influence the compliance and vibrational behaviour a lot. So unless they had the exact same dimensions it wouldn't be reasonably to draw any conclusions on material. If I remember correctly aluminium based alloys are typically supposed though to have higher material damping than steel based ones.

I'll never buy a ride sigh unseen again. I bought the Kona from reviews and by looking at the component grouping and I wanted longer crank arms because I think it helps with stomping on and grinding out those high gears on the flats and during downhills. I was surprised that you stated aluminum alloys are supposed to be more damp. But it is what it is and if they are more damp then so be it. I suppose hitting the chromoly frame with a wrench sounds metallic and even musical if used that way and the aluminum was not as metallic sounding maybe because it was more damped.

 

[Sharpi31]

View attachment 299656View attachment 299657Took a bit of a gamble on this small British brand...couldn't be happier, the bike strikes a wonderful balance between stability and playfulness. Also, funny branding!

Ragley’s are excellent - great choice. I bought a Marley frame and built it up with the same forks….. Slighly indulgent but I have three sets of wheels for this one. The ones below are 2nd hand wide carbon rims with 2.8“ tyres, which are great on the gravel & rocky trails around here. I have other wheels with XC 2.6” tyres that have much lower rolling resistance for going faster/further. I’m about to put some 2.6” Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro’s on the third set of wheels, so I’m ready for the ice over winter.

 

[Doodski]

Ragley’s are excellent - great choice. I bought a Marley frame and built it up with the same forks….. Slighly indulgent but I have three sets of wheels for this one. The ones below are 2nd hand wide carbon rims with 2.8“ tyres, which are great on the gravel & rocky trails around here. I have other wheels with XC 2.6” tyres that have much lower rolling resistance for going faster/further. I’m about to put some 2.6” Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro’s on the third set of wheels, so I’m ready for the ice over winter.

View attachment 300311

Wow! Look at that cartridge gearing!

 

[Chrispy]

I have no idea if this is snake oil or fact but the last chromoly mountain bike frame that I rode was springy and cushy to ride and the newest Kona hybrid/mountain bike that I bought was a alloy of aluminum and it rode like a rock. I sold it off because I hated it's harsh ride. The Kona had skinny 700c rims and tires that sucked compared to a 26" with Continental Town and Country 2.25" wide tires on the chromoly ride. Is the chromoly springyness science based or is it my imagination?

My first mountain bike was chromoly, and heavy as hell, the ride characteristics were probably mostly from the fork, rather than the frame. Some aluminum alloys are more forgiving than others. Difference in tire size has a great deal to do with it (as well as tire pressure). Steel is real as they say, though, and some frames of that or even titanium or carbon may have more flex designed into it. Particular tubing and construction and design count for more than just a basic frame material in any case.

 

[pseudoid]

which are great on the gravel & rocky trails around here.

I am not much into taking a bike on a trail but the few times that I've biked thru the bush, the rear derailleur seems to be most susceptible to failure.
More so than the frame: Being on the lowest part of the bike while the protection from the pedal is about 25 degrees of each revolution...

 

[Doodski]

My first mountain bike was chromoly, and heavy as hell, the ride characteristics were probably mostly from the fork, rather than the frame. Some aluminum alloys are more forgiving than others. Difference in tire size has a great deal to do with it (as well as tire pressure). Steel is real as they say, though, and some frames of that or even titanium or carbon may have more flex designed into it. Particular tubing and construction and design count for more than just a basic frame material in any case.

On the chromoly ride I bent the forks and replaced them with a heavy duty fork and that solved that issue before I broke the handlebars in half wheelying and broke a pedal when stomping on it. I basically busted whatever could not handle me popping wheelies and jumping off of the library stairs and ended up with a decent ride for hybrid use. I think if I buy again I'm going with thick fat 2.25" to 2.5" tires, longer like ~185mm strong crank arms and test ride the frame before committing to something I'm stuck with. Not sure if I need rear suspension for hybrid street use. Knowing me I'll be right back into abusing my ride if I buy another. I test drove a friends new Cannondale with full suspension and I broke the frame jumping off a loading bay dock at work and he got a new frame under warranty so that worked out well. So, I'm hesitant on buying a new ride and what that means. If I buy another I need something tough and rugged because I'm apparently prone to breaking rides and fussy about the ride comfort too.