Should I get a late 90s CD player or something current?

[johnsen88]

Lads, I have a tonne of CDs and would like to put them use. I do stream at times but I prefer to use a CD player as a transport with the DAC(also an AK chipset) in my integrated amp. I am unfamiliar with the quality of this particular transport/laser and whether this would be a sound investment if used, both as standalone unit as well as a transport.

The used CD player I am considering(£200) which I can get hold of has these specs:

24 bit dac - AK4324VF,

I believe it has a Sony Transport - KSS-213C which is found in a few Audio Note and Accuphase players.

Alternatively, would I be better off getting a brand new CD player like an entry level Denon DCD 900NE(not sure of the transport) @ £400 with an internal ES9018K2M Dac that plays 24- bit/192-kHz, as well as DSD 2.8MHz and 5.6MHz tracks (not SACD though)?

Let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

 

[mcdn]

Any CD player that isn’t broken will sound identical through your modern DAC. Focus on looks and how smoothly it operates.

 

[JSmith]

Might be worth a look;

https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/904.html

According to their specs, 0.001% THD+N... about 100dB SINAD on the analog outs. $106 on Amazon US.


JSmith

 

[Doodski]

Sony Transport - KSS-213C

Very common Sony part. Buy a new one and that way you are not getting a old used disc motor, sled motor and laser pickup.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Any Bluray player will play CDs fine. Some don't have very good front panel displays or UI for playing music vs movies. In any case, an old CD player may be just fine or not. I'd likely go with a new one of some sort.

 

[JSmith]

Any Bluray player will play CDs fine.

Mostly... but some don't have gapless playback, which is something to watch out for if wanting to use to play full CD albums.


JSmith

 

[Blumlein 88]

Mostly... but some don't have gapless playback, which is something to watch out for if wanting to use to play full CD albums.


JSmith

I haven't run into to those. Do you happen to know if the manuals state which are which usually? Certainly something worth knowing before buying. Best Buy still has some at stores. Maybe one could try a CD prior to purchase.

 

[Rednaxela]

Denon DCD 900NE

Have you seen this review?

 

[JSmith]

I haven't run into to those.

It's quite hit and miss. Panasonic DP-UB450 apparently doesn't support gapless playback for CDs or audio files according to some forum posts for e.g.

Even some CD players don't;

New CD players incapable of gapless playback??

I just saw this somewhat worrying YT video claiming that increasingly, new CD players, including expensive models from some major manufacturers, are...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

Do you happen to know if the manuals state which are which usually?

Sometimes they mention it (i.e. supported, but never really state not supported), sometimes not and often more in reference to file playback rather than CD's.

It's best to probably search for a model number along with the keyword gapless and dig a little to be sure prior to purchase.


JSmith

 

[EJ3]

Mostly... but some don't have gapless playback, which is something to watch out for if wanting to use to play full CD albums.


JSmith

Gapless playback seems to be an issue with this company as well as many other companies from that part of the globe, based on what I have been told.
I do only know this from hearsay, NOT from personal experience, so YMMV.

 

[johnsen88]

Any CD player that isn’t broken will sound identical through your modern DAC. Focus on looks and how smoothly it operates.

The old player is in excellent condition. Well built. I do agree with you on these players sounding similar. The other reason why I am considering this older player is because it is from the same brand.

Very common Sony part. Buy a new one and that way you are not getting a old used disc motor, sled motor and laser pickup.

I see. Are the parts cheap and readily available in the event they need to be replaced?I was concerned about this. But reading through the threads, I found that the older players were better built and with some care, they can go on working fine for years to come. Some even mentioned how the older transports are resilient and don't break done as often as the current ones.

Have you seen this review?

I did. The measurements look great and it was recommended. I shortlisted this model.

 

[johny_2000]

SMSL VMV PL100 CD player £110

Seems to have just been released. Cheap audio Man has got his hands on it https://www.amazon.co.uk/CS43131-Decoder-Optical-Headphone-full-function/dp/B0DQKTRYR9 https://smsl.shop/products/pl100 You need to purchase a USB power adapter with an output power of 5.2V 2.4A. The computer's USB...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Doodski]

I see. Are the parts cheap and readily available in the event they need to be replaced?I was concerned about this. But reading through the threads, I found that the older players were better built and with some care, they can go on working fine for years to come. Some even mentioned how the older transports are resilient and don't break done as often as the current ones.

I'm not up to speed on availability of parts for repair. As per machines lasting better than others all I can say is I have repaired thousands of them and they where all broken in some way... LOL. So I always go new with a warranty.

 

[johnsen88]

I'm not up to speed on availability of parts for repair. As per machines lasting better than others all I can say is I have repaired thousands of them and they where all broken in some way... LOL. So I always go new with a warranty.

Makes perfect sense. Lol. I am going for the used one just because it is from the same company that made the integrated amp that I am planning to pair with. If I decide to get that used player, which the seller claims to be in mint condition, is the anything in particular that I should look out for when examining it?

From the threads here, I gathered that the tray should open and close smoothly and there should be no noise when the CD is read; the transition from track to track should be seamless; no skips and stutters when tracks are selected, paused or played.

You may want to add to this given your vast experience having seen these players in all possible conditions.

 

[johnsen88]

SMSL VMV PL100 CD player £110

Seems to have just been released. Cheap audio Man has got his hands on it https://www.amazon.co.uk/CS43131-Decoder-Optical-Headphone-full-function/dp/B0DQKTRYR9 https://smsl.shop/products/pl100 You need to purchase a USB power adapter with an output power of 5.2V 2.4A. The computer's USB...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I checked it out as well. But my previous experience with their product left a bitter taste. It is a hit or miss with these chinese makes as far as QC goes.

 

[restorer-john]

Are the parts cheap and readily available in the event they need to be replaced?I was concerned about this. But reading through the threads, I found that the older players were better built and with some care, they can go on working fine for years to come. Some even mentioned how the older transports are resilient and don't break done as often as the current ones.

Parts are easy, the skill and knowledge to install and align the players to factory spec not so much anymore.

For example, my supplier, Sony:

Sanyo:

Plenty available if you know where to look...

 

[Doodski]

the tray should open and close smoothly

Sometimes I provide a tiny bit of resistance to see if the drive belt for the motorized tray drive slips but the owner may not appreciate that.

there should be no noise when the CD is read; the transition from track to track should be seamless

Some chirping and slight hiss from the machine is normal. This is the drive motors and servos making normal noises.

no skips and stutters when tracks are selected, paused or played

if the CD played has some fine scratches and there is no skipping that is good. If deep scratches then skipping is to be expected.

 

[NTTY]

Lads, I have a tonne of CDs and would like to put them use. I do stream at times but I prefer to use a CD player as a transport with the DAC(also an AK chipset) in my integrated amp. I am unfamiliar with the quality of this particular transport/laser and whether this would be a sound investment if used, both as standalone unit as well as a transport.

The used CD player I am considering(£200) which I can get hold of has these specs:

24 bit dac - AK4324VF,

I believe it has a Sony Transport - KSS-213C which is found in a few Audio Note and Accuphase players.

Alternatively, would I be better off getting a brand new CD player like an entry level Denon DCD 900NE(not sure of the transport) @ £400 with an internal ES9018K2M Dac that plays 24- bit/192-kHz, as well as DSD 2.8MHz and 5.6MHz tracks (not SACD though)?

Let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

The Denon DCD-900NE is one of the best transports and CD players that I measured so far. Its internal DAC will be very difficult to beat. As a comparison, I used it as a reference transport to test the SMSL PS200 from a CD audio source.

The Accuphase use the KSS-213CL. I'm not sure about the differences with the KSS-213C. The little Onkyo C-733 has a KSS-213CL too, but most importantly has a refined optical output, with a very stable clock. That is important to facilitate the DAC's PLL job. It improves the pitch error at DAC level. That said the Denon DCD-900NE does better (0.5ppm vs 3ppm).

SACD replay is unnecessary unless you have some. If you don't, no real need to plan for it. Note that the Denon 900NE will read DSD files from a USB key. Not practical, but it does it. The SMSL PS200 could do that from a computer too, or bluetooth source (with all its limitations).

Old CD Players from the 90s have aging components. Most of them have a pitch error relatively high because of that, even when using high quality Xtal. Ceramic oscillators are to be avoided, they completely deviate with time. I've measured lack of precision up to 8'000ppm! Old gears also suffer from degraded performances of their mechanisms and they often need a refresh of belts and caps (some become slow to read TOC or skip a track). But all of old drives are extremely fast, everyone loves that.

Resistance to scratched CDs is also an important element IMO. Not all transports are equal. Modern mech do at least decent, per my measurements. That said, the one to beat, if that even exists, is a cheap Yamaha CDX-393, with its KSS-213C head. It would read a CD with holes into it without you noticing

Note that you can find old CD players with very good digital and stable digital outputs (I mean precise), like the Marantz DR700 that I reviewed. If it's a crap player, it's very good super fast, super precise transport, and paired with an SMSL PS200, it will be a real challenge to beat. All of that for really little money.

Cheers

 

[EJ3]

The Denon DCD-900NE is one of the best transports and CD players that I measured so far. Its internal DAC will be very difficult to beat. As a comparison, I used it as a reference transport to test the SMSL PS200 from a CD audio source.

The Accuphase use the KSS-213CL. I'm not sure about the differences with the KSS-213C. The little Onkyo C-733 has a KSS-213CL too, but most importantly has a refined optical output, with a very stable clock. That is important to facilitate the DAC's PLL job. It improves the pitch error at DAC level. That said the Denon DCD-900NE does better (0.5ppm vs 3ppm).

SACD replay is unnecessary unless you have some. If you don't, no real need to plan for it. Note that the Denon 900NE will read DSD files from a USB key. Not practical, but it does it. The SMSL PS200 could do that from a computer too, or bluetooth source (with all its limitations).

Old CD Players from the 90s have aging components. Most of them have a pitch error relatively high because of that, even when using high quality Xtal. Ceramic oscillators are to be avoided, they completely deviate with time. I've measured lack of precision up to 8'000ppm! Old gears also suffer from degraded performances of their mechanisms and they often need a refresh of belts and caps (some become slow to read TOC or skip a track). But all of old drives are extremely fast, everyone loves that.

Note that you can find old CD players with very good digital and stable digital outputs (I mean precise), like the Marantz DR700 that I reviewed. If it's a crap player, it's very good super fast, super precise transport, and paired with an SMSL PS200, it will be a real challenge to beat. All of that for really little money.

Cheers

Belt replacement time on my SONY CDR RCD 500C.

 

[Lambda]

I would buy a (usb) CD reader for like 15€ and rip all the CD to a PC