Should I get a late 90s CD player or something current?

[DavidM1]

I checked it out as well. But my previous experience with their product left a bitter taste. It is a hit or miss with these chinese makes as far as QC goes.

I have this SMSL CD player and it is very good. I also have Fosi v3 monos, an SMSL DAC and who knows how many Chinese electronic appliances. I might be increasingly biased towards Chinese manufacture. lol.

 

[teched58]

Parts are easy, the skill and knowledge to install and align the players to factory spec not so much anymore.

I have a wonderful Kenwood DP-M7730, a cartridge-based CD player from 1992. (Six CDs per cart. I think it cost ~$400 then, which is something like $5 million today.)

Anyway, every single unit out in the wild is now out of alignment. (There are always listings for these and their cousins on ebay, the sellers always saying they work "good." Not. Most units in the wild will play a coupla discs out of the six in a cart, but never all of them.

For years I've been meaning to fix (i.e., align) mine. But I keep putting it off, because the cost of aligning it is more than it cost new. The biggest obstacle is you have to make your own alignment disc, because the ones made by Sony back in the day are no longer available. (Occasionally one comes up on ebay but they want $75, and I'd never pay that to get a possibly scratched and nonworking disc.)

And then you gotta buy a scope. The old Tek/HP ones which I used at school and work years ago are way too expensive. And I've been reluctant to try those $300 Chinesium digital scopes, which seem to be all menu driven. (As opposed to rotary switch driven. I'm afraid if I apply to a $300 Chinese scope the forces we used to use to twirl all those Tek switches, the thing will break in my hand.)

TL;DR: I have the expertise, but not the patience nor the willingness to spend the money. But those Kenwood cartridge players are beautiful. Plentiful in bars back in the day. The Kenwood carts players are also more amenable to restoration than the Pioneers, which I think have a ball bearing in their cart, which makes them failure prone.

 

[JSmith]

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JSmith

 

[teched58]

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JSmith

Thanks for your input. However, I believe the issue with these Kenwoods is not bad lasers. It is laser alignment.

Coupla points:

--FYI, I have changed the Sony laser assembly in one of my units. Same issue; some of the discs will play, some won.t. This points to the alignment. If you look at the transport mechanism and its vertical movement as it changes discs and returns to its set position. you will probably intuitively see that that is the issue.

--Even if I take your suggestion, I will still be in the same position. Because when you change the laser assembly, you are supposed to align the unit. In the real world players will sometimes (often?) work after a laser change sans alignment. But, again, on these cartridge players it's the miniscule variation over the years in the return to set position after a disc change. Eventually, the changer mechanism that's part of the transport develops slop that causes the out-of-alignment condition. You want ALL six discs to play, not just one. That's why alignment is critical.

 

[JSmith]

In the real world players will sometimes (often?) work after a laser change sans alignment.

Has for me in some DVD and BD players but as you suggest it can be hit and miss, especially with older players and carousel models.

I've got an old Akai 6 disc model which is on the blink too... tray won't turn. I may get around to fixing it one day.

You want ALL six discs to play, not just one.

Absolutely... I just wasn't sure if you were aware there were still replacement lasers for that model, so mentioned just in case.


JSmith

 

[Bleib]

Any Bluray player will play CDs fine

Well, it might work but often they are not mechanically quiet

 

[MatrixS2000]

Lads, I have a tonne of CDs and would like to put them use. I do stream at times but I prefer to use a CD player as a transport with the DAC(also an AK chipset) in my integrated amp. I am unfamiliar with the quality of this particular transport/laser and whether this would be a sound investment if used, both as standalone unit as well as a transport.

The used CD player I am considering(£200) which I can get hold of has these specs:

24 bit dac - AK4324VF,

I believe it has a Sony Transport - KSS-213C which is found in a few Audio Note and Accuphase players.

Alternatively, would I be better off getting a brand new CD player like an entry level Denon DCD 900NE(not sure of the transport) @ £400 with an internal ES9018K2M Dac that plays 24- bit/192-kHz, as well as DSD 2.8MHz and 5.6MHz tracks (not SACD though)?

Let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

Any reason why you wouldn’t just rip the CDs you have to digital files?

 

[Leporello]

Any reason why you wouldn’t just rip the CDs you have to digital files?

I have done it but it is a very tedious process. Glad it’s over.

 

[DavidM1]

Any reason why you wouldn’t just rip the CDs you have to digital files?

I do that and the main benefit is the quick search for familiar music. The benefit of streaming is the extraordinary access, even in the car.

I also like CDs. I like the physicality of the product and I like getting to know a CD. I keep a few next to my CD player that I’m currently enjoying.

Edited to add that I recently retired a Denon player that cost $500AUD 30 years ago which developed tray issues. I now use an SMSL PL100 - small, cute, nice remote etc. it cost about the same as a repair to the Denon would have and I use it more. Both function as transports.

 

[MatrixS2000]

I do that and the main benefit is the quick search for familiar music.

That and you don’t need a dedicated CDP any longer.

I have done it but it is a very tedious process. Glad it’s over.

Agreed, all my CDs are ripped to files now. I also rip my vinyl, if you think CD was tedious, don’t even attempt vinyl!

 

[rdenney]

I think there are two strategies, both of which might work fine:

1.) find premium old stuff and keep it in a state of good repair. This is risky and sometimes expensive. I bought a Naim CD5 player that failed within a year--it had a very nice Philips transport but still it won't play and I haven't been able to figure it out. But I also have a Marantz Professional CD player (intended for broadcast/commercial use) and it uses a Sony KSS151 transport. Unlike the price-point 213, the 151 was Sony's premium transport with a linear motor for the laser sled rather than plastic rack and pinion. That transport also came in the Teac CD-401, also intended for pro use (though the Marantz has more of the features I'd want in a broadcase booth, like cueing), and I have a couple of those. Those have been solid for me, and all were made in the 90's. They also look nice and don't make you think the tray is going to break off if your CD happens to be slightly heavy. This approach favors those unafraid to take stuff apart to replace belts.

2.) buy disposable modern DVD players that will also play CD's. These use computer-drive transports designed for intermittent variable high speed operation rather than continuous low-speed operation, so I don't expect them to last the ages, but that's why they are cheap.

Frankly, I've done both. I have a Sony DVD player in the based and it plays CD's just fine. It was an open-box items at Best Buy and I think I paid twelve bucks for it. It works, but the sound has to go through the TV to get to the audio system.

But my Marantz and the two Teacs have been exceptionally reliable and they also look like hi-fi equipment instead of looking like black plastic junk.

By the way I have a three Cambridge Audio players. One uses a KSS151 and it works quite well. The other two are newer and each use 213's. Those also work well, but the trays seem a bit less robust.

Some KSS151 implementations are more of a pain to work on than others. The Teacs are dead easy, but I once had a Denon that was a genuine pain in the butt to install a new belt. I've never yet had an old CD player with a dead laser--that is assuredly not the problem with the Naim.

I even have an old Magnavox that is a cult classic from the middle 80's. It needs a belt but otherwise works fine. If there was ever a CD player that wouldn't sound as good as others, it's that one--it has a Philips transport that uses a 14-bit DAC with 4X oversampling. But it sounds as good as the others when I can get the tray to close properly.

But that $12 Sony DVD player sounds just as good.

(The third strategy is to just rip the CD into your computer and play it from there. I've done that, too, and it works just fine.)

Rick "gotta get that Naim player back on the bench" Denney

 

[DavidM1]

That and you don’t need a dedicated CDP any longer.

I can’t deny I’d regain several inches of space that the player takes up.

 

[vddobrev]

It really comes down to budget. There are some great old ones (e.g. Onkyo C-VL1), but how much life is left in them? I recently decided to purchase a CD player, and was deciding between a used Onkyo C-VL1 and a new Pioneer PD-50AE. And I got the Pioneer for maximum life and also it plays SACDs.

 

[johnsen88]

Any reason why you wouldn’t just rip the CDs you have to digital files?

I am hearing that the CD-rippers bring a new set of problems. Some say that the ripped files will not be at the original sonic level found in the CD as it is now been 'processed' by the CD ripper.

 

[Rednaxela]

I take it you haven’t been hearing that here?

 

[MatrixS2000]

I am hearing that the CD-rippers bring a new set of problems. Some say that the ripped files will not be at the original sonic level found in the CD as it is now been 'processed' by the CD ripper.

You can ignore that bit of misinformation as that will not be the case. The CD ripper works like a CD player when it come to getting the information off the disc. It will read the digital data on the CD but instead of turning it into analog audio right away, it saves a copy of the bit pattern as a file. When you play back that file on a DAC convert it to analog audio just as the CD would have done.

 

[johnsen88]

I take it you haven’t been hearing that here?

Yup. Not here, but from those I know(back where I live) who did this. I am OK with this idea of ripping them using a CD ripper so long as the data found in the CD gets copied, completely. I believe that CD players, when playing a CD, do tend to skip data if the lenses pick up some anomaly(eg. surface scratches etc). Would this logic apply to CD ripping as well?

 

[Mart68]

Yup. Not here, but from those I know(back where I live) who did this. I am OK with this idea of ripping them using a CD ripper so long as the data found in the CD gets copied, completely. I believe that CD players, when playing a CD, do tend to skip data if the lenses pick up some anomaly(eg. surface scratches etc). Would this logic apply to CD ripping as well?

Only if the CD is so badly damaged that error correction cannot compensate and then it just won't work at all.

 

[kyuu]

Only if the CD is so badly damaged that error correction cannot compensate and then it just won't work at all.

I've actually had rips where it didn't fail but there were obvious errors (audio drop outs, glitchy noises) in the ripped audio file. This was with some pretty scratched up CDs, though.

 

[rdenney]

I've actually had rips where it didn't fail but there were obvious errors (audio drop outs, glitchy noises) in the ripped audio file. This was with some pretty scratched up CDs, though.

Exact Audio Copy. It’s free.

Rick “slow but accurate” Denney