Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

[Dana reed]

I grabbed two units off the shelf that were just tested. We wrapped them up and sent them. However, if you are worried about cherry picking a device, I imagine you are worried about every other company that sent @amirm units on loan, correct?

What % of magnis, for instance, get the full test suite you have on the website? It would be interesting to see the standard deviation on some of the measurements and see if the %RSD is lower on an op amp design vs a discrete

 

[MustBeDeaf]

Yes, prior to the thread on Head Fi I referred to:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...di-2-uber-thread.748067/page-14#post-11351523

The Schiit tech seemed to imply it was an isolated problem. The Head Fi thread showed it wasn't.

I no longer have the Schiit gear. I'm afraid my experience and the findings here soured me to the brand. But I hope your interest suggests a turnaround for the better. If so, my door remains open.

Seriously? A post from 2015?

 

[Hemi-Demon]

@T.M.Noble

Any chance the Schiit combo units will have the option to upgrade to the AK4993 vs the now discontinued 4490? A board upgrade along the lines of what RME did with the ADI-2, would be great with a Asgard 3.

Also do your engineers have any plans to upgrade the Asgard 3, to eliminate some of power mains leakage that is present in your AP graphs? These two amps (heresy and Magni 3) measure great, but of course some prefer the additional harmonics (2nd and 3rd spikes) of your other designs (Asgard 3). If your engineers could remove the leakage, while keeping the 2nd and 3rd harmonics that would be killer!!

 

[Swtoby]

Seriously? A post from 2015?

Good call on your handle, buddy.

 

[Labjr]

I'm glad companies are sending their units into ASR for review because I think other reviewers tend to cherry-pick their test results to suit their reviews.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

I received my Magni 3+, Magni Heresy and Modi 3 in the mail today.

What fantastic sounding pieces of gear, makes me wonder what the point is of spending any more.

Personally I can't tell the difference between the Heresy and 3+. I'll keep the Heresy because I love the color, it measured better so why not, and find their experiment of "listen to both, form your own opinions" refreshing and commendable.

Cheers!

 

[trl]

[...]buzzing when touching the volume control on the amps. I could tap the volume control and get a buzz. My own body was creating this. It wasn't just weird, but annoying. Amir's work here seemed to expose this as grounding issues.

There's like a dielectric between the metallic shaft of the potentiometer and the ribbon resistive from the both channels. It's pretty normal some noise to get injected into the audio circuitry if you touch that shaft (at least to cheap and small potentiometers). Solutions are simple:
- either you swap the knob with a plastic one (or even if it's metallic, there should be a plastic or rubber inside to isolate the shaft).
- either you ground that damned potentiometer/shaft (just look on the Objective2 pot grounding "mod").

However, as long as while not touching the potentiometer there is no buzzing noise in your headphones, I guess it's all good after all.

 

[solderdude]

The metal part on the volpot can be connected to ground via the 'mechanical reinforcement'.
Have no idea why Schiit doesn't do that. The contacts are isolated from the ground plane.
I reckon they experimented with it.

 

[JohnBooty]

Benchmark always seems to get accolades, as an example.

Nobody would excuse the QC/design issue you mentioned with the Schiit product you bought, but it's interesting that you named a company whose cheapest products appear to be literally 10-20x the cost of Schiit's cheapest products.

 

[Swtoby]

Nobody would excuse the QC/design issue you mentioned with the Schiit product you bought, but it's interesting that you named a company whose cheapest products appear to be literally 10-20x the cost of Schiit's cheapest products.

True. But, Schiit also sells products at similar price points to Benchmark. In my opinion they can be held to a comparison with other companies beyond JDS Labs that top out at $400. Geshelli Labs seems to be another contender if you want to keep the price point in the low 3 figures. I like my $350 Crown amp a lot. We can spin our wheels coming up with examples. What matters to me as the customer is does it work the way I expected to? If it does and it lasts then I'm a happy customer. I don't owe Schiit my loyalty and there are many companies that compete for my dollar. To me, it's not relevant that their amp is $100, which to some would be a lot. It didn't work and I took my business elsewhere. What puzzles me is how quick some seem to defend what Amir, in my view, has shown to be problematic build quality.

 

[Ranzear]

As a compromise solution, perhaps they can keep the LED inside the unit so it shines through the top grille, like on the Asgard 3.

Side note as I skim the thread: The Heresy actually does have an extra red LED on the board that lights up the inside through the top grille.

Modi 3 is a great $99 DAC and matches in looks. You can get higher performance DACs to better match to Heresy. Audibly though they are probably the same.

I went with the Topping D50s just to have an absolutely transparent chain, but it also has a remote and you could just leave the Magni knob wherever and use the volume in the DAC. The noise floor is so low you can just leave the knob sky high on high gain and still reach inaudible with DAC volume.

 

[T.M.Noble]

Yes, prior to the thread on Head Fi I referred to:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...di-2-uber-thread.748067/page-14#post-11351523

The Schiit tech seemed to imply it was an isolated problem. The Head Fi thread showed it wasn't.

I no longer have the Schiit gear. I'm afraid my experience and the findings here soured me to the brand. But I hope your interest suggests a turnaround for the better. If so, my door remains open.

I can see why you thought that was a dismissive comment.

What I can let you know is that Schiit has made leaps and bounds when it comes to our QC and our customer service. We do take these problems seriously. It the reason we took steps to fix that very problem. I think you will see in 2020 that Schiit has come a long way. Thanks for giving us the opportunity.

 

[T.M.Noble]

What % of magnis, for instance, get the full test suite you have on the website? It would be interesting to see the standard deviation on some of the measurements and see if the %RSD is lower on an op amp design vs a discrete

The full battery of tests is a very low percentage. Through each run a few dozen are put through this analysis and if we ever get an amp back for repair it is usually tested as well. To my knowledge, these amps all end up measuring the same.

If I get some time though, in the next week, I can grab twenty of each and throw it up for ya.

 

[T.M.Noble]

I received my Magni 3+, Magni Heresy and Modi 3 in the mail today.

What fantastic sounding pieces of gear, makes me wonder what the point is of spending any more.

Personally I can't tell the difference between the Heresy and 3+. I'll keep the Heresy because I love the color, it measured better so why not, and find their experiment of "listen to both, form your own opinions" refreshing and commendable.

Cheers!

Glad you enjoyed Heresy. Happy listening.

 

[T.M.Noble]

There's like a dielectric between the metallic shaft of the potentiometer and the ribbon resistive from the both channels. It's pretty normal some noise to get injected into the audio circuitry if you touch that shaft (at least to cheap and small potentiometers). Solutions are simple:
- either you swap the knob with a plastic one (or even if it's metallic, there should be a plastic or rubber inside to isolate the shaft).
- either you ground that damned potentiometer/shaft (just look on the Objective2 pot grounding "mod").

However, as long as while not touching the potentiometer there is no buzzing noise in your headphones, I guess it's all good after all.

We had a solid milled aluminum knob. We moved to one with a plastic insert. Solved the problem.

 

[NTomokawa]

So did Schiit shoot themselves in the foot by inadvertently proving that, once again, ICs perform better than exotic "discrete" setups?

 

[majingotan]

So did Schiit shoot themselves in the foot by inadvertently proving that, once again, ICs perform better than exotic "discrete" setups?

One thing I know is that they're neutral with both sides. Discrete designs are still their motto but they will come up with even better measuring discrete implementations in the future. One big influence that ASR did to Schiit is to design better discrete stages for every iteration of their product. Sooner or later we might even get the coveted 120 dB SINAD at 2Vrms out of a discrete design if Schiit can find a way to suppress the main's leakage with transistors, etc.

 

[T.M.Noble]

So did Schiit shoot themselves in the foot by inadvertently proving that, once again, ICs perform better than exotic "discrete" setups?

I think we made two amps for two different philosophies. We knew 3+ would never measure better than Heresy. That wasn't the objective. It is two expressions on how achieve the same goal: bad ass little amp that sounds good under a hundred bucks. Consider it less as shooting ourselves in the foot and more like shots fired.

 

[NTomokawa]

120 dB SINAD at 2Vrms out of a discrete design

Wouldn't that be something.

Meanwhile I just wish Schiit had UL/ETL safety certifications. The past grounding issues are uh... off-putting to say the least.

 

[NTomokawa]

shots fired

Thanks for your reply. Indeed, well-performing yet inexpensive headphone amplifiers are always welcome, and I applaud your effort towards the creation of such products.