Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

[makmeksam]

@amirm Thanks for the fair shake. I had this nagging feeling you would like Heresy.

I read you have a masters in philosophy

 

[T.M.Noble]

I read you have a masters in philosophy

I have dabbled.

 

[Human Bass]

Could Schiit make a balanced amp that is just two heresy together( one per channel) l and delivery 4.8 watts @ 32ohms? Guess it wouldnt take too much R&D and would be quite welcome.

 

[makmeksam]

There are those in audio that do not place measurements on an analyzer as primary on their rubric.

It is really interesting to think what people who do not consider measurements to be the primary deciding factor think about the company priorities when the company starts investing in measurements. However, what I observe is that the number of people who wants to see good measurements are increasing.

 

[amirm]

However, what I observe is that the number of people who wants to see good measurements are increasing.

Hugely so. I think people didn't know what proper measurements can look like. Throwing graphs at people with text that often disagreed with them was a disservice to everyone and waste of resources.

The other problem was slow rate/pace of measurements. Would you believe I have tested 167 headphone amplifiers so far? Without that context it is hard to put value on measurements.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Do we have thd vs frequency measurement today?

 

[JohnBooty]

two sets of folks

There aren't really two sets of folks, though, at least the way I see it.

Some say we value measurements over music but I don't find that to be the case generally speaking. We all appreciate the pursuit of engineering excellence but I think the overriding goal is to make sure we're spending our money in the right places.

Everybody wants something that "sounds good," even the objectivists who care about measurements. We just dig deeper into the hobby. Like car enthusiasts who care about torque curves and compression ratios. Other people just want a car that is "fast enough." I wouldn't call them different camps.

The industry is approximately 120 years old, and generally speaking we know what makes audio sound good and how to measure it.

Wouldn't it be amazing if we didn't understand this by now? We have poured over a century of work and orders of magnitude more money into audio reproduction than nearly anything else in human history. That is not an exaggeration. Far more money than the Apollo program, probably less than WWII but it's in that ballpark.

There is room for learning and debate over the audibility of some of this stuff, or more specifically how these measurements map to actual listening enjoyment. For example I think we can all agree that 0.0000000001% THD doesn't really sound twice as good as 0.0000000002% THD. And as Amir noted in his review, he'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the Heresy and Magni 3+ despite their differing measurements.

 

[makmeksam]

Hugely so. I think people didn't know what proper measurements can look like. Throwing graphs at people with text that often disagreed with them was a disservice to everyone and waste of resources.

Can not agree more. At the same time I think we should do lot more to educate people about measurements in terms of how to read them and what conclusions to make based on them. I think this is a good starting point for many people

The other problem was slow rate/pace of measurements. Would you believe I have tested 167 headphone amplifiers so far? Without that context it is hard to put value on measurements.

That is amazing! I can not imagine how much time it takes to setup a single device for measurements and get those 0.000x measurements right.
Appreciate the effort you put into this a lot.

 

[makmeksam]

For example I think we can all agree that 0.0000000001% THD doesn't really sound twice as good as 0.0000000002% THD.

Believe me. I did many blind tests. I can clearly hear the difference. It is night and day! 0.0000000001% THD sounds clinical. Find the two products and see for yourself.

 

[imagidominc]

Credit where credit is due, Schitt pulled through. A round of applause for them. This is a good sign of things to come.

 

[Swtoby]

Credit where credit is due, Schitt pulled through. A round of applause for them. This is a good sign of things to come.

It looks that way. But, as a former customer, even before I found this forum, I was turned off by the buzzing using different models of Magni amps and the quirks of the Modi Multibit. This forum exposed the shoddy soldering and grounding issues of other Schiit gear. But Schiit seemed to persit in sweeping that under the rug. Have those issues been resolved with this turnaround? Other companies, such as JDS Labs don't need Amir pointing out the deficiencies to be corrected. They do it right the first time. I apologize for the negativity, but even though I was attracted to Schiit's down to earth and level headed approach, the above has dissolusioned me to the brand. My trust in their company was destroyed with my own experience and what was uncovered here.

 

[JohnYang1997]

It looks that way. But, as a former customer, even before I found this forum, I was turned off by the buzzing using different models of Magni amps and the quirks of the Modi Multibit. This forum exposed the shoddy soldering and grounding issues of other Schiit gear. But Schiit seemed to persit in sweeping that under the rug. Have those issues been resolved with this turnaround? Other companies, such as JDS Labs don't need Amir pointing out the deficiencies to be corrected. They do it right the first time. I apologize for the negativity, but even though I was attracted to Schiit's down to earth and level headed approach, the above has dissolusioned me to the brand. My trust in their company was destroyed with my own experience and what was unconvered here.

Sure. But it's still good to see companies changes their mind.
On the grounding, these are low power class 2/3 devices that don't have 220/110vac input on the device unit and don't have ground wire from the adapter. There's no grounding issue and it's safe.

 

[Tks]

It looks that way. But, as a former customer, even before I found this forum, I was turned off by the buzzing using different models of Magni amps and the quirks of the Modi Multibit. This forum exposed the shoddy soldering and grounding issues of other Schiit gear. But Schiit seemed to persit in sweeping that under the rug. Have those issues been resolved with this turnaround? Other companies, such as JDS Labs don't need Amir pointing out the deficiencies to be corrected. They do it right the first time. I apologize for the negativity, but even though I was attracted to Schiit's down to earth and level headed approach, the above has dissolusioned me to the brand. My trust in their company was destroyed with my own experience and what was unconvered here.

I mean Topping, and I'd guess every company that isn't literally using machines + people to verify QC work multiple times over per unit will suffer issues like this sometimes.

Companies, just like people are in flux. No one stays the same to perpetuity. Let's say they did "sweep it under the rug" (of which I've never seen any attempts at doing such), what is the problem if they even openly admitted such, and said they would do better (like they're demonstrating now literally).

You can only hang over someone's prior realities over their head for so long. You then look like the bad guy yourself after a certain threshold for not extending a hand of reconciliation, especially if the other side is seemingly demonstrating good faith gestures going forward. Also, I haven't seen a single person not taken care of by Schiit. We can talk about measurements all day, but their customer service hasn't been called out by anyone as something dis-satisfactory. So even if we grant the WORST criticism that could be conjured about them, like for instance saying: "Yeah their QC is negligent, or inadequate". What's the big deal if they're willing to work with every single customer in remedying any QC fails that get through?

Like what could you reasonably expect if indeed that worst case scenario is the only way they can provide devices at such a price? What does it matter if they're willing to take care if you get unlucky enough with such lemons reaching you?

 

[Swtoby]

I mean Topping, and I'd guess every company that isn't literally using machines + people to verify QC work multiple times over per unit will suffer issues like this sometimes.

Companies, just like people are in flux. No one stays the same to perpetuity. Let's say they did "sweep it under the rug" (of which I've never seen any attempts at doing such), what is the problem if they even openly admitted such, and said they would do better (like they're demonstrating now literally).

You can only hang over someone's prior realities over their head for so long. You then look like the bad guy yourself after a certain threshold for not extending a hand of reconciliation, especially if the other side is seemingly demonstrating good faith gestures going forward. Also, I haven't seen a single person not taken care of by Schiit. We can talk about measurements all day, but their customer service hasn't been called out by anyone as something dis-satisfactory. So even if we grant the WORST criticism that could be conjured about them, like for instance saying: "Yeah their QC is negligent, or inadequate". What's the big deal if they're willing to work with every single customer in remedying any QC fails that get through?

Like what could you reasonably expect if indeed that worst case scenario is the only way they can provide devices at such a price? What does it matter if they're willing to take care if you get unlucky enough with such lemons reaching you?

Again, other companies do it right the first time. And at similar price points. I never had any problems with their customer service either. Too bad the product seemed to have so many issues. As a customer, spending my money, that's what I have the issue with. Not their customer service. It would be great if they resolved all of the issues presented elsewhere in this forum.

 

[T.M.Noble]

Again, other companies do it right the first time. And at similar price points. I never had any problems with their customer service either. Too bad the product seemed to have so many issues. As a customer, spending my money, that's what I have the issue with. Not their customer service. It would be great if they resolved all of the issues presented elsewhere in this forum.

I hear you. We genuinely listen to forums like this. They affect our approach and where we can make improvements. We try to listen to customers and make sure they feel as if their money has been well spent. I cannot speak for other companies but what I can say is that we are constantly improving and trying to push the boundaries for a quality product at a decent price.

 

[amirm]

Magni 3+ teardown posted: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../schiit-magni-3-headphone-amp-teardown.10328/

 

[Tks]

Again, other companies do it right the first time. And at similar price points. I never had any problems with their customer service either. Too bad the product seemed to have so many issues. As a customer, spending my money, that's what I have the issue with. Not their customer service. It would be great if they resolved all of the issues presented elsewhere in this forum.

Again, I hear you. I buy products from those companies because I also value efforts of such efficiency and doing things right always the first time. But like people, companies are as varied as the folks working there. Even the best of companies will fail miserably sometimes. So that company that always does things right the first time, will put out a massive blunder.

As for the issues presented on this forum. I am wondering what are these issues? Since it doesn't seem the soldering stuff I spoke about before is what you want to allude to.

 

[adc]

I have resorted to using LightDims on most of their equipment anyway.

Holycrap, thanks for the tip -- I didn't know about those. They look much classier than the little chunks of electrical tape I've been using.

 

[Dana reed]

No plans at the moment, but I could certainly be convinced if people here are interested. Either way, you will be seeing more Schiit products reviewed on ASR in the future.

Or maybe send Amir a Vidar? I had planned to send one of mine, but since I got the HE6SE, I'm using the third one every day for that, and the first two are with the Magnepans. Of course since you also put Vidar measurements on the Schiit site, my desire to see them here also was quenched (at least enough not to want go without one and pay for the shipping)

 

[amirm]

Teardown of Heresy here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...it-magni-heresy-headphone-amp-teardown.10330/