Sabaj D5 vs. Topping DX7 Pro: measurement comparison

[MediumRare]

Also would be nice to know how difficult it is to switch between different sources and outputs (headphones / line out to speaker). Just think about PC monitors where you need to press like 10 times the buttons to switch between inputs ...

It surprisingly simple for both. Basically there’s a button for either one. The remote is excellent, just need line of sight between you and the DX7 P.

 

[mixMZ]

Its a shame that non of the manufacture thought about very useful option.

Master & Slave mode, you could buy 3 of those units "link" them and control with 1 remote, could be quite useful if you wish to use them for tri amping...

 

[Labjr]

Its a shame that non of the manufacture thought about very useful option.

Master & Slave mode, you could buy 3 of those units "link" them and control with 1 remote, could be quite useful if you wish to use them for tri amping...

Use an Okto 8 channel DAC. Though you'd still need some kind of DSP crossover unless you're using a passive crossover.

 

[mixMZ]

I know , can not await their successor of dsp version, but thats not my point. Its the feature that would change a lot and dont understand why manufacturers havent came up with that idea especially knowing that audio is going more and more digital and active way...

 

[Labjr]

I can't imagine too many people buying 3-4 DACs for multi-channel or tri-amping etc.

 

[raif71]

I'm leaning towards sabaj coz it's cheaper and I don't need bluetooth but the 30m warm-up of sabaj, is that an issue?

 

[mkawa]

i leave my audio chain on all the time (obviously not class A). quiescent current is negligible when it isn't using power on driving loudspeakers

 

[Enkay25]

I'm leaning towards sabaj coz it's cheaper and I don't need bluetooth but the 30m warm-up of sabaj, is that an issue?

I don't find any audible difference.
As such, I keep my Sabaj at standby.

I don't think a 2-3 db difference matters at everyday usage.

 

[Tks]

I'm leaning towards sabaj coz it's cheaper and I don't need bluetooth but the 30m warm-up of sabaj, is that an issue?

(This comment is considering the DX7 Pro didn't have it's headphone-out SINAD measured).

Not an issue, and personally, I sort-of like that they took thermals serious. Every other company in audio is seemingly one standard deviation from being mentally retarded, inept, or simply indifferent with respect to their heasink designs, implementations, and overall quality. I'd prefer most parts not be the victims of not being passively cooled. The constant ramp up from being off daily (as I like to turn my devices off), is just another stress factor that contributes to the eventual failure of a device (naturally most solid state devices today can put up with this sort of abuse for years, if not decades, so this is more of a OCD inclination toward finesse). Especially when you don't have any sort of heatsinks on parts on a PCB (like central processing chips and such), many of these devices as most can attest to get warm to the touch sometimes (cases heat up even without direct contact to any on-board parts, so you can imagine the localized heat temperature of a DAC chip for instance). Don't even get me started with power amps or devices with active cooling, the sorts of fans and heasinks they use are a joke, and they need to contract a company by the name of Noctua to show them how to properly take thermals seriously, along with the associated noise levels that comes with actively cooling parts.

The Sabaj in the review was left to "heat up" for 30 minutes, but who knows how long it actually takes to get to it's fully ready state, you'd have to run measurements every minute to confirm. Though truth be told, I doubt it takes 30 minutes, but then again I haven't seen the internals nor has anyone made use of temperature probes to check how long the heatsinks begin to saturate (or how the heatsinks are configured in the first place, as you could have a heatsink fully in contact with the case, and that would provide a massive ability to transfer heat).

The price of the Sabaj alone sells itself, the DX7Pro fails in my book for one big reason if not any other, the output impedence is disappointingly high for no seemingly reason (as I still believe my theory the initial DX3 Pro failures were due to poor solder jobs, and not output impedence being too low on the device, which prompted them to release the V2 with higher impedance, like this DX7 Pro now). For audible performance though, it doesn't matter which you get, both are phenomenal, but the value out the Sabaj is insane. Like I said to other folks sometime, forget about "audible quality" from now on in these devices measuring at these astounding 115db+ SINADs and 120db+ Dynamic Range. Just look out for confounding factors like, good company support, design, UI, user experience, design, build materials, software, etc... THIS is what's important going forward.

So overall in conclusion, for you - I'd get the Sabaj if I were you. But I'm not, and I appreciate multiple (and many) inputs as they can muster. Bluetooth input for me is almost essential in any device I'd get in the future. I don't want to fire up my PC anymore if I want to listen to something, having my phone connect instantly to the DX3Pro I have at night for example when I'm to lazy to do anything.. is wonderful. Though with the long delays to the DX7Pro, and the current price compared to competition, and it's shortcomings that I think could've been avoided(that output impedance seriously "impedes" on my overall impression).. I would probably get the Sabaj if I didn't care for Bluetooth, and if I didn't get to demo either at home.

 

[raif71]

(This comment is considering the DX7 Pro didn't have it's headphone-out SINAD measured).

Not an issue, and personally, I sort-of like that they took thermals serious. Every other company in audio is seemingly one standard deviation from being mentally retarded, inept, or simply indifferent with respect to their heasink designs, implementations, and overall quality. I'd prefer most parts not be the victims of not being passively cooled. The constant ramp up from being off daily (as I like to turn my devices off), is just another stress factor that contributes to the eventual failure of a device (naturally most solid state devices today can put up with this sort of abuse for years, if not decades, so this is more of a OCD inclination toward finesse). Especially when you don't have any sort of heatsinks on parts on a PCB (like central processing chips and such), many of these devices as most can attest to get warm to the touch sometimes (cases heat up even without direct contact to any on-board parts, so you can imagine the localized heat temperature of a DAC chip for instance). Don't even get me started with power amps or devices with active cooling, the sorts of fans and heasinks they use are a joke, and they need to contract a company by the name of Noctua to show them how to properly take thermals, along with the associated noise levels that comes with actively cooling parts.

The Sabaj in the review was left to "heat up" for 30 minutes, but who knows how long it actually takes to get to it's fully ready state, you'd have to run measurements every minute to confirm. Though truth be told, I doubt it takes 30 minutes, but then again I haven't seen the internals nor has anyone made use of temperature probes to check how long the heatsinks begin to saturate (or how the heatsinks are configured in the first place, as you could have a heatsink fully in contact with the case, and that would provide a massive ability to transfer heat).

The price of the Sabaj alone sells itself, the DX7Pro fails in my book for one big reason if not any other, the output impedence is disappointingly high for no seemingly reason (as I still believe my theory the initial DX3 Pro failures were due to poor solder jobs, and not output impedence being too low on the device, which prompted them to release the V2 with higher impedance, like this DX7 Pro now). For audible performance though, it doesn't matter which you get, both are phenomenal, but the value out the Sabaj is insane. Like I said to other folks sometime, forget about "audible quality" from now on in these devices measuring at these astounding 115db+ SINADs and 120db+ Dynamic Range. Just look out for confounding factors like, good company support, design, UI, user experience, design, build materials, software, etc... THIS is what's important going forward.

So overall in conclusion, for you - I'd get the Sabaj if I were you. But I'm not, and I appreciate multiple (and many) inputs as they can muster. Bluetooth input for me is almost essential in any device I'd get in the future. I don't want to fire up my PC anymore if I want to listen to something, having my phone connect instantly to the DX3Pro I have at night for example when I'm to lazy to do anything.. is wonderful. Though with the long delays to the DX7Pro, and the current price compared to competition, and it's shortcomings that I think could've been avoided(that output impedance seriously "impedes" on my overall impression).. I would probably get the Sabaj if I didn't care for Bluetooth, and if I didn't get to demo either at home.

Thanks for the lengthy but informative comments. When I said I was leaning towards Sabaj over DX7Pro, it's just that if I have the option of getting a dac/amp unit . As it is, I already have a desktop dac/amp that I just bought so that will be staying with me for some time or at least until it's broken (Fiio K5 Pro)

 

[Tks]

Until the Fiio is broken? Ah in that case I recomend the Topping DX9Pro in the future

 

[lucian]

(This comment is considering the DX7 Pro didn't have it's headphone-out SINAD measured).

Not an issue, and personally, I sort-of like that they took thermals serious. Every other company in audio is seemingly one standard deviation from being mentally retarded, inept, or simply indifferent with respect to their heasink designs, implementations, and overall quality. I'd prefer most parts not be the victims of not being passively cooled. The constant ramp up from being off daily (as I like to turn my devices off), is just another stress factor that contributes to the eventual failure of a device (naturally most solid state devices today can put up with this sort of abuse for years, if not decades, so this is more of a OCD inclination toward finesse). Especially when you don't have any sort of heatsinks on parts on a PCB (like central processing chips and such), many of these devices as most can attest to get warm to the touch sometimes (cases heat up even without direct contact to any on-board parts, so you can imagine the localized heat temperature of a DAC chip for instance). Don't even get me started with power amps or devices with active cooling, the sorts of fans and heasinks they use are a joke, and they need to contract a company by the name of Noctua to show them how to properly take thermals, along with the associated noise levels that comes with actively cooling parts.

The Sabaj in the review was left to "heat up" for 30 minutes, but who knows how long it actually takes to get to it's fully ready state, you'd have to run measurements every minute to confirm. Though truth be told, I doubt it takes 30 minutes, but then again I haven't seen the internals nor has anyone made use of temperature probes to check how long the heatsinks begin to saturate (or how the heatsinks are configured in the first place, as you could have a heatsink fully in contact with the case, and that would provide a massive ability to transfer heat).

The price of the Sabaj alone sells itself, the DX7Pro fails in my book for one big reason if not any other, the output impedence is disappointingly high for no seemingly reason (as I still believe my theory the initial DX3 Pro failures were due to poor solder jobs, and not output impedence being too low on the device, which prompted them to release the V2 with higher impedance, like this DX7 Pro now). For audible performance though, it doesn't matter which you get, both are phenomenal, but the value out the Sabaj is insane. Like I said to other folks sometime, forget about "audible quality" from now on in these devices measuring at these astounding 115db+ SINADs and 120db+ Dynamic Range. Just look out for confounding factors like, good company support, design, UI, user experience, design, build materials, software, etc... THIS is what's important going forward.

So overall in conclusion, for you - I'd get the Sabaj if I were you. But I'm not, and I appreciate multiple (and many) inputs as they can muster. Bluetooth input for me is almost essential in any device I'd get in the future. I don't want to fire up my PC anymore if I want to listen to something, having my phone connect instantly to the DX3Pro I have at night for example when I'm to lazy to do anything.. is wonderful. Though with the long delays to the DX7Pro, and the current price compared to competition, and it's shortcomings that I think could've been avoided(that output impedance seriously "impedes" on my overall impression).. I would probably get the Sabaj if I didn't care for Bluetooth, and if I didn't get to demo either at home.

Long heat up time could also be an sign of bad thermal design


I like the idea to connect wireless without PC. But I think it would be even better to use a chromecast with digital out:

- higher bit rates posible
- more range
- you can use multi room
- you can use BT from phone for other things

Do you know if the SABAJ D5 automatically switch to optical if here is no usb signal?

 

[graz_lag]

... Not an issue, and personally, I sort-of like that they took thermals serious ...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-gustard-dac-x26.7007/post-217127

 

[Tks]

Long heat up time could also be an sign of bad thermal design


I like the idea to connect wireless without PC. But I think it would be even better to use a chromecast with digital out:

- higher bit rates posible
- more range
- you can use multi room
- you can use BT from phone for other things

Do you know if the SABAJ D5 automatically switch to optical if here is no usb signal?

Never used a chromecast device, and I don't demand much out of an audio system in terms of things like higher bit-rates and thing of that nature if I am running it out of a portable source (I copy all my music to ~256kbps VBR for portable use). Range isn't a concern living in a 1 floor apartment here, and as for multi-room, I only have two rooms I have audio playing - the living room(bluetooth ready Vanatoo T1 Encore speakers), and the lounge/bedroom(Topping DX3 Pro, RME DAC, THX 789 Amp). And I also don't use BT for anything else from my phone (tired of all the radios draining batteries constantly).

Also, no idea if the Sabaj can do that, I don't have one.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-gustard-dac-x26.7007/post-217127

Very nice to see, nice big passive heatsinks. Not expensive, but obviously will keep the chips from stressed by fast thermal fluctuations. But I have no idea how DAC chips work enough to know the sort of heat they produce, relative to their analogue amp sections. I mean obviously the amp section uses more power and such, and heatsinks in a fully enclosed case are nearly worthless if your goal is to maintain a certain temperature, all they do is delay the saturation point of the heat (which is good in this case as I outlined previously just for the sake of reducing heat stress, and not trying to cool the device).

Though I do admit, there is a case against thermal solutions in some modern tech. SSD cells for example shouldn't be cooled, and operate far better when their temperatures are allowed to climb to a certain point (so all those idiotic SSD "thermal plates" you see in modern computer motherboards are silly, but luckily most are failures for thermal management, so you don't need to worry in an ironic case of failure of design = benefit to the consumer), you also explicitly want the SSD operating at a higher temp as lower temperatures degrade the SSD itself when under operation. But that's not to say you don't want to cool SOME part of an SSD, M.2 form factor NVMe drives are mostly exposed, as are their parts on a PCB even when installed onto a motherboad. The controller is what you want cooled as much as possible, so having localized heat dissipation of that part of an M.2 SSD drive is very good to have.

Outside of that one caveat, adding heatsinks on all heat producing parts is a generally good thing. Though it's interesting to see them go wild with such relatively massive heatsinks on the Sabaj. Now I'm interested how far they went, and if they're using any thermal interface compound for perfect contact between the heatsink and chip die.

I'm also curious if anyone knows how analogue portions in amps function if cooled during operation? Would that degrade performance (where they function like tubes that need to warm up)?

 

[RickSanchez]

Though it's interesting to see them go wild with such relatively massive heatsinks on the Sabaj. Now I'm interested how far they went, and if they're using any thermal interface compound for perfect contact between the heatsink and chip die.

I'll start by saying I know nothing about heatsinks. But wanted to ask about your statement: " ... interesting to see them go wild with such relatively massive heatsinks on the Sabaj."

According to Sabaj (via Amir's contact with them) the heatsink is just for the ES9038PRO chip. I'm also looking at the picture of the internals on the Sabaj D5 product page and I don't see much. The picture is below; the DAC chip is circled in red. (Again, not sure exactly what I should be looking for.) Do you have other pictures of the D5 internals that show the heatsinks? Are they on the underside of the board?

 

[Tks]

A fellow here posted this image of the internals, seems quite different to that what they have posted there. Or maybe I'm just blind to some perspective.

https://imgur.com/YNTiC5y

 

[deafenears]

A fellow here posted this image of the internals, seems quite different to that what they have posted there. Or maybe I'm just blind to some perspective.

I believe that's the internals of the Gustard DAC-X26.

 

[Tks]

I believe that's the internals of the Gustard DAC-X26.

Well RIP me..

Safe to assume they plopped on one of these babies perhaps on the D5?

 

[RickSanchez]

If it's useful to anyone on this thread, I've also posted this same comparison but including the new SMSL M500.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-topping-dx7-pro-measurement-comparison.9636/

All three are high performance DACs with very competent amps, and are all roughly in the same price range. The SMSL M500 has MQA and lacks a balanced XLR headphone out.

 

[RickSanchez]

As to the questions about thermal design and heatsinks on the Sabaj D5, member @Sak has pictures of the internals posted here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sabaj-d5-owners-thread.9561/post-260032