Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier

[maty]

It would not hurt a photo of the inside of the box, with the modules already wired. Having seen some messy with the Hypex NC500 by Nord I think it is a relevant demand.

 

[Labjr]

The 1ET400A is only their first amplifier module. There's probably better modules coming with higher power ratings etc.

 

[maty]

I think we are in September and the UK is still in the EU like Spain. And UK VAT taxes? + 19%, aka £ 408.5

2,150 + 408.5 = £ 2,558.5

Today, £ = € 1.13

The price, today, is € 2,891

€ 30 less than Apollon. Well, without the ASR discount.

Beautiful case but without no small holes or vents for ventilation! Thus, thermal photographs of inside after proper and prolonged operation would be advisable.

-> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ements-of-nord-one-nc500-amp.7704/post-230766

 

[maty]

To finish,

If Brexit, with or without agreement, VAT is not supposed to be paid but customs do. And if it is done without agreement, they will be quite high I think. And until a few weeks / months pass, shipments can be slow, let alone the new procedures to be created.

The positive is that the pound is likely to be devalued against the euro. How much, depending on the disaster generated, I say.

If we live in EU, better wait for the situation to be clarified and for the cheaper modules. And we will have all the advantages!

 

[DS23MAN]

Brexit or not. I see a lot of products on this forum without the proper CE marking and testing sold in the EU....

 

[HLee]

According to Amirm's comment, opamp cannot make sound better.
Then what is the necessity of opamp inserted in the circuit with some expenses?
More dB of output gain? Better impedance of input stage?

High gain mode of 1ET400a showed more distortion than cheaper NC400 DIY kit which seems to have no opamp.

 

[Julf]

Then what is the necessity of opamp inserted in the circuit with some expenses?

Subjectively pleasing coloration?

 

[boggit10]

According to Amirm's comment, opamp cannot make sound better.
Then what is the necessity of opamp inserted in the circuit with some expenses?
More dB of output gain? Better impedance of input stage?

High gain mode of 1ET400a showed more distortion than cheaper NC400 DIY kit which seems to have no opamp.

Indeed technically measurement wise no, but they are technically required buffering the signal in and feeding it to the NC500, Purifi module.
We can however add and voice tonal density etc in this stage and yes the buffer stage op amps adds around 14dB of gain and we can tailor the input impedance. And yes the NC400 uses a buffer stage with op amps in a discrete circuit.

 

[PierreV]

To finish,

If Brexit, with or without agreement, VAT is not supposed to be paid but customs do. And if it is done without agreement, they will be quite high I think. And until a few weeks / months pass, shipments can be slow, let alone the new procedures to be created.
The positive is that the pound is likely to be devalued against the euro. How much, depending on the disaster generated, I say.
If we live in EU, better wait for the situation to be clarified and for the cheaper modules. And we will have all the advantages!

I posted this in the past. When Brexit happens, export from UK to EU and vice-versa are likely to fall under default rules, according to the Harmonized System Codes (HS Code 2017). The code for the amplifier is likely to be that one 851840 Amplifiers; audio-frequency electric

With UK in the EU, the non pro end user pays VAT in the country of purchase and is just like a local customer. The pro intermediary doesn't pay VAT, but charges it (and reports it) when it resells it to an en user in his own market. Basically the tax happens where the added value happens. There's a bit of administrativia, mostly the intrastat declaration but that's it (https://www.vatglobal.com/reporting-obligations-vat-guides/what-is-an-intrastat-declaration ) - that's what an open market is.

Now, if/when UK is out, it is a mess.

Typically, each pair of countries/regions (say US - EU, UK - EU, CN - EU, etc) can have different rates on the same items depending on the direction. That's what is negotiated under trade agreements. So, typically a package sent from US to EU will be subject to a customs duty dependent on its code number. There is some ambiguity in the code and some things can fall under several different codes. Optimizing codes as to lower fees is an actual job.

As far as the UK is concerned, it will have no agreement with the EU (under a hard brexit) and default tariffs will apply. Those default tariffs are usually higher to much higher than what is negotiated between countries/areas that have agreements (that's the whole purpose of agreements...)

So tariffs will definitely go up...

And so will administrativia in a mind-blowing way. Products will have to be exported with the correct codes, under the correct rules, and that will have to be checked at the border. That's a huge load but that's the law.

Regardless of what the tabloids say, goods may be delayed at the border, not because the EU wants to take revenge or the UK wants to limit imports, but simply because there will be a ton of paper work, business are mostly unprepared, customs staff is reduced, etc... etc...

There will be issues with exporting stuff with a wrong code, no code at all (although the shipper will usually catch missing codes) or under value - this is typically what happens when you hear stories of people buying a $10 trinket and ending up paying $200 in fees/fines/taxes. If there is something wrong, your customs/post office may end up charging you a "stopping" or a "processing" fee. That used to apply mostly to China/US grey imports to EU, this will now happen with UK exports too.

But, legally, you will not avoid VAT.

Assuming the code is correct, you will end up paying (if the import is legal)

(base price + shipping price + duty fees + insurance fees)*(1+applicable VAT rate)

Assuming incorrect code (say, unprepared UK small business), it would be

(price + shipping price + duty fees + insurance fees + processing/stopping fee)*(1+applicable VAT rate) + eventual fine.

That's a very quick summary - harmonized codes and rules are so complex that there are even AI startups in the field to make things more manageable...

What most people don't realize is that we'll be going from "sell to a German as you would sell to a Brit, no hassle" to that nightmare for absolutely everything (if done legally, barring any emergency measures such as the ones that could be taken for medicine).

And if that wasn't bad enough, the whole current supply chains are set up to work with no friction, almost no inventory, and that is going to create an very large number of practical issues.

Lastly, large businesses are mostly ready, because they are usually all set up for dealing with out of the EU customers, they will just whine about added costs and delays (or relocate). Small to medium businesses, not so much.

As far as where the pound is heading, if you know, congratulations, you will soon be very rich

 

[HiFiSoundFarts]

I would much rather buy the Genelec 8331 for $4500 then a 1et400a and speakers for $4500. I mean, looks like 1et400a retail is going to be $3000 and up as Mivera's version is around $3500. DIY 1et400a will most likely be around $2000 with taxes and shipping. Sure you can build some cool speakers with Purify transducers but that will be expensive by the time you add a decent tweeter and material costs, etc. And the end result will still be short of the tremendous amount of engineering that has gone into Genelec active speakers or other comparable active speakers. I would be much more interested if Purify would come out with their own active speaker like the Kii ncore speakers at a more affordable price.

 

[ti33er]

I’d be very interested to hear the differences between the Purifi and nCore (subjectively) as Bruno has eluded it might sound different in this thread.

...I never got on with my recently sold nc500 (after two years of desperately trying to like it with Bruno’s standard Buffer) because it seemed to make everything I partnered it with sound clinical, i.e. bland with shrill highs - apparently it was my lack of high end DAC; I had become disillusioned waiting for the LakeWest MDAC2 as of recent, still hoping it will appear one day, but that was the only reason I held onto nc500 so long :-(

I like the idea of Class D ...waiting to hear more (and I’ll definitely not buy into another until I demo in some way or form)!

Ps. Nice to see Julf on a Forum again too ...I believe he is just out to snuff Audiofoolery as it is rife in the Industry (I thought he was Bruno masquerading for a time) ;-)

 

[Matias]

@ti33er welcome to the forum. Subjectively you should try the discrete opamps from Sparkos, said to be more warmer sounding and forgiving then stock or Sonic Imagery (yes, I know, no double blind testing and measurements to confirm that, heresy in ASR, etc. ). Especially the larger SS2590 opamp from Sparkos. Best yet would be to partner such opamps with the new 1ET400A modules from Purifi, which is exactly what I intend to do.
Try looking into Apollon or Nord amps.

 

[Julf]

Ps. Nice to see Julf on a Forum again too ...I believe he is just out to snuff Audiofoolery as it is rife in the Industry (I thought he was Bruno masquerading for a time) ;-)

Ooh! That is the best praise I have heard in a long time!

 

[Labjr]

Kind of funny that over the years people have complained and debated about how hi-fi has problems with non-linearity and distortion. And now that amps and DACs etc have become perfectly linear with zero distortion everyone wants to add distortion because they don't like the sound of perfection.

 

[ti33er]

Hi Matias

Thanks for the word. TBH I’d listened briefly with the Sparkos but it altered the Gain (which was a no-no for me integrating amps into my Home Cinema) and sounded like it simply added ‘SSSSHHHH’ to the sound, clouding it a bit - with many furious debates on the DIY Forum, including Julf I decided transparency in the Buffer was the way to go.

Comparing old TAG McLaren 250MR monoblocks to my nc500, there was just more gutsy midrange, spit and grunt in the singers voice and smoother yet detailed treble (I could pick out the odd emphasised detail in the ‘sea’ of high end treble, which I didn’t notice with nCore) - I didn’t believe these Discrete OpAmps would create this with their sub-optimal distortion characteristics

A few nc1200 owners had admitted theirs sounded different to their previous nc500, which also led me to believe Bruno had done something to make them ‘sound’ better (of course few of us can afford £6000 plus).

Maybe PuriFi modules are going this route...I await with interest reinvigorated

 

[Matias]

Apollon I know you can ask to set the gain and input impedance you wish on their custom buffer, so there is that customization option.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Kind of funny that over the years people have complained and debated about how hi-fi has problems with non-linearity and distortion. And now that amps and DACs etc have become perfectly linear with zero distortion everyone wants to add distortion because they don't like the sound of perfection.

Ninjaed by @Cosmik's signature:

Digital audio is a rare example of perfect technology; it has given audiophiles everything they wanted. But now they're bored...

 

[Labjr]

Ninjaed by @Cosmik's signature:

I'm glad I didn't sell my SET amps.

 

[ti33er]

lol I must agree ...I’d only trust an Input Buffer that Bruno himself has built for his Class D Amplifiers - he did once taunt altering the colourless Buffer, to make things sound more traditional (I guess what people like, butter on the toast)!

It would be nice to have a Switch on the Buffer with a few modes or profiles, like colourless, Tube, Class A/B etc.

 

[Labjr]

I listen to mostly 60's-70's Classic Rock and Pop. None of it is perfectly recorded. Nor was it intended to be. It's multi track overdubs. Analog tape has an organic sound. So the source material is already colored. I don't want to listen through a amplifier that sounds like an electron microscope.