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Review and Measurements of Audio-gd R2R11 DAC & Amp

Jimster480

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#62
Note at all. We're not measuring the wrong things, folks are simply deluding itself. Don't fall into "argumentum ad populum" trap, it's an example of a false argument, not the right one. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
So true, people believe that it is good because they haven't heard something better.

Last year when I took my Topping DX7 + A30 + JDS O2 to a headfi meet... there were many people there who were impressed by its performance.
A few people who tried their own headphones on my setup and said that it was "so clear", yet there were a few others who said "its too sharp".

The double edged sword of transparency is that the mistakes in music production will shine through as clear as the details.
 

bunkbail

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#63
Note at all. We're not measuring the wrong things, folks are simply deluding itself. Don't fall into "argumentum ad populum" trap, it's an example of a false argument, not the right one. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Welp, now I'm a deluded one. I don't get why people are having such strong opinions on products they have never lay their hands on. Nice attitude, great site.
 

Jimster480

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#64
Welp, now I'm a deluded one. I don't get why people are have such strong opinions on products they have never lay their hands on. Nice attitude, great site.
Because touching a product doesn't mean that it has performance.
This is the reason for objective review.

Sighted bias is very well documented in the audio community, aswell as in other areas of science.
If someone "likes" how something looks they will delude themselves into believing its better.
 
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#65
Because touching a product doesn't mean that it has performance.
This is the reason for objective review.

Sighted bias is very well documented in the audio community, aswell as in other areas of science.
If someone "likes" how something looks they will delude themselves into believing its better.
bunkbail stated that he likes two DACs: the first one for being a transparent DAC and the other one (which he knows is clearly less HiFi) for sounding more mellow to him.

So he acknowledged that one of his DACs has a substandard performance, something that is very likely audible after having three units of this manufacturer tested at ASR, and that he liked that sound-tradeoff for listening to certain performances.

So nowhere did I see him state anything that can be regarded as "deluted". He just likes the side-effects of that lesser performing DAC, just like how some people like tubes.
 

PuX

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#68
Welp, now I'm a deluded one. I don't get why people are having such strong opinions on products they have never lay their hands on. Nice attitude, great site.
if you think the measurements are missing some important metric that makes this DAC good, name it.
 
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#69
I wonder if it would be possible to make well performing DAC act like something like this with some audio processing. You know, ruing the original data (distort it) enough and maybe even add some background noise in the mix. If that would then sound similar I don't see why buy a flawed product when one could just colour the signal and just use the cheapest DAC they could find to achieve the same thing.
 

andreasmaaan

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#70
I wonder if it would be possible to make well performing DAC act like something like this with some audio processing. You know, ruing the original data (distort it) enough and maybe even add some background noise in the mix. If that would then sound similar I don't see why buy a flawed product when one could just colour the signal and just use the cheapest DAC they could find to achieve the same thing.
I totally agree, and there are plenty of VST plugins designed for mixing and mastering that do exactly this, usually based on classic tube gear. I haven’t often seen this kind of DSP processing included in playback software or DACs though.
 

Veri

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#71
I wonder if it would be possible to make well performing DAC act like something like this with some audio processing. You know, ruing the original data (distort it) enough and maybe even add some background noise in the mix. If that would then sound similar I don't see why buy a flawed product when one could just colour the signal and just use the cheapest DAC they could find to achieve the same thing.
NOS is mostly roll-off and aliasing. But for more typical distortion/ harmonics' sound, I played with this the past weeks on my DX3Pro:

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/spl_twintube.html

Sounds really good!! I use the female vocals / acoustic instrument presets. Love it, tubey distortion without the awful hum or noise floor. The VST seems expensive, but most actual tube amps (non-hybrids!) set you back $500-600.

Of course, you do need either a player (foobar2k, jriver, ...) that supports VSTs, or manipulate system-wide sound (I use Reaper to route sound and add VSTs).
 
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#72
It seems like Audio-GD has just released a statement on their website. It's poorly written but I guess it addresses the ongoing debate in this and other threads in this forum: http://www.audio-gd.com/En audio-gd.htm
A message to respond some one

The English is not my advantage so the message must had a lot grammar mistook.
If I was you, I would not say anything how the specs effect the sound quality.
You can say how bad of the specs and the sound quality , but you should not hint the transparency = low distortion.
Did you say the tube devices sound not transparency? Or did you mean the phono sound not transparency ?
You know how to measure , you may know the electric technology, but you may don't know the audio technology.

I have very lot changes to measure the expensive hi-end devices of different brands, because a lot customers brought their units come to our listen room to have the compared with our products.
I have measured the wonderful units to study why their sound is tube like or transparency or sound digital .
Through a lot measured and studied I know how to make the sound like analogue but not digital .
Audio study is large different to electric study . I can not study the audio technology only in book but I must open and study by the hi-end units , a lot practice and listen are necessary.

Did you know the specs effect between OS and NOS ? The same unit, OS and NOS can had 15DB different on the THD.
It is a unit only with NOS design.
We have declared on the web page :THD today is extremely low with Sigma Delta chips; R2R ladders have good THD but nos as good as Delta Sigma .
In your point the most DS design must better than most R2R design.

In the web page we have declared the unit sound has Smooth, coherent and analogue sound quality and has no emphasise on any frequencies in audio spectrum, and more like real oil painting.
It obvious design for the analog or tube like sound .
It must some things like the pure analog design .
There are over 3000 users and I had got a lot feedback from users says sound wonderful, I don't think these users don't know how to listen music .

A few Americians may dislike the Chinese products, like Mr. Donald don't like Huawei .
But music has not limit of countries. We are not only enjoy the Chinese music but we also respect the oversea musicians .
The most people just want to enjoy the music but not enjoy the specs.
 

BurritoJustice

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#73
God I want to see someone test the AS1 (literally Audio Science 1), Kingwa's statement DAC to say "we can make them measure good if we want them to". I'd be honestly fascinated to know.

This of course still poses the biggest concern I think, they are now saying that they intend for the poor measurements but this lies opposite to their own measurements which they have released in the past. It's all well and good to say "this unit has a lot of 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion because we like how that sounds", but Audio-GD have been posting specs and measurements that are like >110db SNR which are empirically false.
 

Jimster480

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#74
God I want to see someone test the AS1 (literally Audio Science 1), Kingwa's statement DAC to say "we can make them measure good if we want them to". I'd be honestly fascinated to know.

This of course still poses the biggest concern I think, they are now saying that they intend for the poor measurements but this lies opposite to their own measurements which they have released in the past. It's all well and good to say "this unit has a lot of 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion because we like how that sounds", but Audio-GD have been posting specs and measurements that are like >110db SNR which are empirically false.
Yep we should test it here and see if it measures well at all...

It seems like they have been lieing this whole time, and now that their lie is out they will instead point the finger at us here at ASR and claim that we don't like their products and are picking on them.
This is classic scammer behavior, I deal with it all the time in my line of work with customers who try to scam or competitors who get caught scamming with the same type of stuff.
 
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#75
This is classic scammer behavior, I deal with it all the time in my line of work with customers who try to scam or competitors who get caught scamming with the same type of stuff.
I can understand the over-ego Kwa is portraying. However, while I have no experience with Audio-GD products, I wonder if this "intentional high distortion" was meant to shape a pseudo "pleasant" sound signature rather than aim for reference high-fidelity?
 

Jimster480

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#76
I can understand the over-ego Kwa is portraying. However, while I have no experience with Audio-GD products, I wonder if this "intentional high distortion" was meant to shape a pseudo "pleasant" sound signature rather than aim for reference high-fidelity?
Well, if you make a low quality sound... you are literally providing worse performance than is available via onboard sound on your computer.
Essentially you are selling snake oil, aka a product that does nothing or only has detriment to the customer.
 
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#78
I can understand the over-ego Kwa is portraying. However, while I have no experience with Audio-GD products, I wonder if this "intentional high distortion" was meant to shape a pseudo "pleasant" sound signature rather than aim for reference high-fidelity?
That's exactly what Kingwa is saying and for most audiophiles who judge with their ears (or follow reviewers who do so), who firmly believe that "if it sounds good and measures bad you're measuring the wrong thing" that's probably fine.
 
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