• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Review and Measurements of Audio-gd R2R11 DAC & Amp

Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
236
Likes
86
Let's keep the conversation centered around the device rather than internet politics and celebrities.

I apologize for citing mine in the thread.
 

confucius_zero

Active Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
236
Likes
86
seems Audio-GD has risen to the challenge to give ASR the DAC he believe it deserves

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/AS1/AS1EN.htm
We known that the proper 2nd THD makes the sound become smooth and rich, the proper 3rd THD makes the sound become transparency and lively, how to adjust the level of 2nd and 3rd THD is the secret technology of the designers, that is why some audio devices have the higher distortion like phono, and some few very expensive European made audio devices had better musical to most people than some others low distortion devices .

We had not applied technology method to adjust the AS-1 THD effect the sound flavor, we just made it has the very low distortion , and through selected the different parts apply to keep the sound listening pleasant . It is not the audio-gd house sound style.

Who need the AS-1?

I guess that is in below:
1, Who concern the specs at first .
2, Who want a monitor sound to test the cable, room, speakers or somethings of audio.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,620
Likes
25,442
Location
Seattle Area
seems Audio-GD has risen to the challenge to give ASR the DAC he believe it deserves

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/AS1/AS1EN.htm
Wonder why the test DACs with one channel turned off???

1546585442971.png


You see the measured level in Channel B is zero and the sweep panel to the left (not show) is not set to stereo.

Dacs should be run in stereo (as should other audio products) so that the unit is working as customer would use it.

In general, I don't trust any measurements they post. They have no resemblance to anything I get either with the same analyzer they have (my older one) or new AP I have.

They need to hire a third-party measurement company to produce certified and independent results of purchased units.

As to planning second and third harmonic levels, I don't trust that statement one bit. Why is it not showing up in their measurements if that is what they are doing?

1546585630440.png


The second harmonic is down 130 dB and the third, is -120 dB down. No way are they audible and if they actually achieve these, they would achieve top of the class status in my testing (SINAD of 120+ dB!).
 

confucius_zero

Active Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
236
Likes
86
As to planning second and third harmonic levels, I don't trust that statement one bit. Why is it not showing up in their measurements if that is what they are doing?
We had not applied technology method to adjust the AS-1 THD effect the sound flavor, we just made it has the very low distortion , and through selected the different parts apply to keep the sound listening pleasant . It is not the audio-gd house sound style.
 

Headphonaholic

Active Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
222
Likes
267
No way are they audible and if they actually achieve these, they would achieve top of the class status in my testing (SINAD of 120+ dB!).
Well, hopefully in the future someone will send one in for measurement! I'm not going to get all hyped up since their track record leaves a bit to be desired but if they do achieve that level of performance it would be nice to know about it :)
 

NTomokawa

Active Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
168
Likes
162
Location
Canada
They just pile up components to make the products look expensive.
This. It's not just Audio-GD, though they're probably one of the worse offenders. Design by ear, design by looks, design by hype... Piling up expensive parts and installing them in neat symmetrical blocks doesn't magically give good performance. And the typical response one gets from these manufacturers is "music is meant to be heard, not measured". Ugh.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
40
Likes
29
Location
UK,Norfolk
Why bother wasting time and money making well engineered products when all your target market is demanding is a box of audiophile buzzwords.
Some of the links to the measurements here have been posted in the audio-gd threads on head-fi , the product was vigorously defended with responses, "Thankfully I pay very little attention to Amir and his objectivist cronies. He wouldn’t know a good sounding dac if it fell from the sky and hit him on the head" , "firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site " , "Also, distorsion is a very common thing in recordings, even with recent ones. Any transparent source will reveal it, especially on heaphones. "
Thats the target market of this product they clearly have no interest whether its well engineered or not.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,620
Likes
25,442
Location
Seattle Area
Why bother wasting time and money making well engineered products when all your target market is demanding is a box of audiophile buzzwords.
Some of the links to the measurements here have been posted in the audio-gd threads on head-fi , the product was vigorously defended with responses, "Thankfully I pay very little attention to Amir and his objectivist cronies. He wouldn’t know a good sounding dac if it fell from the sky and hit him on the head" , "firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site " , "Also, distorsion is a very common thing in recordings, even with recent ones. Any transparent source will reveal it, especially on heaphones. "
Thats the target market of this product they clearly have no interest whether its well engineered or not.
Those are fair points although there is a good portion of the marke that thought they could have their cake and eat it too. The marketing material for Audio-gd has seemingly good measurements with audio precision making people think they devices were objectively good as well. Now those people are looking for other solutions since that data is not valid.

The rest of the folks of course can't go back on their praises of the product in the past so have to keep justifying it.
 

graz_lag

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
1,099
Likes
980
Location
Le Mans, France
Why bother wasting time and money making well engineered products when all your target market is demanding is a box of audiophile buzzwords.
Some of the links to the measurements here have been posted in the audio-gd threads on head-fi , the product was vigorously defended with responses, "Thankfully I pay very little attention to Amir and his objectivist cronies. He wouldn’t know a good sounding dac if it fell from the sky and hit him on the head" , "firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site " , "Also, distorsion is a very common thing in recordings, even with recent ones. Any transparent source will reveal it, especially on heaphones. "
Thats the target market of this product they clearly have no interest whether its well engineered or not.
Very good !
The more these folks buy Schiit / Audio-Gd and the less they buy Topping / Khadas and the more of those are available for the audiophiles to buy ! :p:p:p
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
468
Likes
643
Location
Paris
Why bother wasting time and money making well engineered products when all your target market is demanding is a box of audiophile buzzwords.
Some of the links to the measurements here have been posted in the audio-gd threads on head-fi , the product was vigorously defended with responses, "Thankfully I pay very little attention to Amir and his objectivist cronies. He wouldn’t know a good sounding dac if it fell from the sky and hit him on the head" , "firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site " , "Also, distorsion is a very common thing in recordings, even with recent ones. Any transparent source will reveal it, especially on heaphones. "
Thats the target market of this product they clearly have no interest whether its well engineered or not.
You're talking about people who affirm to hear differences between two strictly similar DAC or Amps (One being "much more musical" and the other being "sterile") same for headphones cables, Power cables, filters, PSU and I don't know what else...
As simple as that: You just have to be nobody and post on a random thread: I heard both and This is better than this... And it becomes a truth.
That's how Head-Fi works.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
40
Likes
29
Location
UK,Norfolk
Yea there only interested in subjective impressions and a box of there favorite buzzwords that looks the part is obviously gonna do well in subjectivity.
 

rwortman

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
132
Likes
89
I saw something recently where Nelson Pass was giving away a design for a 2nd harmonic generator to put in an audio signal chain. Listening tests show that in blind testing a lot of people prefer about 1% negative phase 2nd harmonic distortion. Than could explain why some lousy performing ladder DACs sound good to people. I think it also explains why LP's can sound very good. Crappy turntables/cartridges add too much distortion but a good one only adds just a little. Seems to me that if you like a little added harmonic content that's fine. This is about listening enjoyment. It does make more sense to build a very clean measuring DAC and then put a "sweetness" knob on it so you can have some distortion sauce when you want it and turn it off when you don't.
 

rwortman

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
132
Likes
89
I am sure they can. Analog with a knob doesn't require knowing how to program. Either way, my point is that if it is small amounts of audible distortion that make some of these DAC's pleasant to listen to, then instead of using an antique DAC architecture, make a nice state of the art clean one and add a distortion knob. They won't do this because the truth has gone out of style in high end audio.
 

Jimster480

Major Contributor
Patreon Donor
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
1,085
Likes
577
Location
Miami
I am sure they can. Analog with a knob doesn't require knowing how to program. Either way, my point is that if it is small amounts of audible distortion that make some of these DAC's pleasant to listen to, then instead of using an antique DAC architecture, make a nice state of the art clean one and add a distortion knob. They won't do this because the truth has gone out of style in high end audio.
Its not just in high-end audio. It's in most every industry.
Published specs are always done in specific scenarios that aren't what the customer will use or claims are made with no backing whatsoever...
Products are sold on "look and feel" rather than functionality.
 

andreasmaaan

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
3,517
Likes
2,759
I saw something recently where Nelson Pass was giving away a design for a 2nd harmonic generator to put in an audio signal chain. Listening tests show that in blind testing a lot of people prefer about 1% negative phase 2nd harmonic distortion. Than could explain why some lousy performing ladder DACs sound good to people. I think it also explains why LP's can sound very good. Crappy turntables/cartridges add too much distortion but a good one only adds just a little. Seems to me that if you like a little added harmonic content that's fine. This is about listening enjoyment. It does make more sense to build a very clean measuring DAC and then put a "sweetness" knob on it so you can have some distortion sauce when you want it and turn it off when you don't.
I saw this write-up by Nelson Pass. I couldn't find anywhere any statement as to how the listening tests were conducted. Do you have any further info? My main question is whether the tests were sighted or blind/controlled.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
7
Likes
2
Hi, I'm a new member and I write from Italy.. sorry for my english.
I'm interested in the question about audioGD (I have one audioGD R28 now..) and I asked to a headset engineer in my country what he thinks.
This is his answer:
"If you trust the measures and not the ears you should take Yamaha 90s products..
But you will discover that as for eating the analysis of the components does not give you information on how good will be what you eat.
Forget it and trust what you listen to.
It is no coincidence that I have been developing my projects around these machines for more than 5 years.
You should buy another Dac amplifier for balanced headphones and I really want to see how you will find when you realize that almost all manufacturers use integrated components to return the measures but the sound is sterile and devoid of dynamics.
Violectric, Ifi, Sennheiser, oppo, etc. etc. etc.
I've already already gone through all of them."
 
Top Bottom