Reliable Copper Banana Plugs in Europe?

[D’oh!]

It is complete and utter bullshit.

Can you specify your answer a little bit more, lol?

 

[SIY]

Can you specify you answer a little bit more, lol?

Brandolini's Law. When something starts with this, you know you're in a morass of idiocy and it's not worth reading further.

Probiert man verschiedene Bananenstecker am gleichen Kabel, so wundert man sich über die großen Klangunterschiede. Auf Grund solcher Erfahrungen habe ich immer den mit Silberlot fixierten und gegen Oxidierung relativ gut geschützten offenen Leiter empfohlen, der direkt unter den Schraubklemmen der Verstärker und Lautsprecher geklemmt wird. Dies ergab oft genug drastische Klangvorteile gegenüber attraktiv aussehenden vergoldeten Messingbananen mit federnden Kontaktkörbchen.

 

[D’oh!]

Thank you. So, what about connecting the bare twisted cable to the speaker and securing it with the screw? Any downsides coming with that besides "damaging" the strands?

 

[SIY]

lol...

I agree with @SIY. The premise of the writing leads down a path of expected certainty on the topic and that's not what most people hear when they change to copper banana plugs. The chain of the audio path makes a difference in whether you notice any difference with solid copper/silver banana plugs versus magnetic plugs.

For instance, if your amp has steel connectors feeding the banana plug on the amp - don't expect a new copper banana plug to make an audible difference. The only time I notice a difference in sound when using copper banana plugs is when the audio chain from the amp to the speakers is also using quality non-magnetic connectors. In that case, the upper treble range may be enhanced when playing music with lots of percussion (typically cymbals).

Look for non-magnetic banana plugs when making a selection and you will be fine. If you do try more expensive plugs be sure they have a an excellent return policy.

The measurable differences with steel are about 3 orders of magnitude below any plausible audibility limits.

The important factors for bananas are mechanical (good force, low creep) and resistance to surface oxidation. If you can achieve the former best with steel or nickel or what-have-you, that's the best material.

 

[SIY]

Thank you. So, what about connecting the bare twisted cable to the speaker and securing it with the screw? Any downsides coming with that besides "damaging" the strands?

Maintaining contact over time. It's possible, but you want a fairly gas-tight connection and that means clamping down hard.

 

[D’oh!]

lol...

I agree with @SIY. The premise of the writing leads down a path of expected certainty on the topic and that's not what most people hear when they change to copper banana plugs. The chain of the audio path makes a difference in whether you notice any difference with solid copper/silver banana plugs versus magnetic plugs.

For instance, if your amp has steel connectors feeding the banana plug on the amp - don't expect a new copper banana plug to make an audible difference. The only time I notice a difference in sound when using copper banana plugs is when the audio chain from the amp to the speakers is also using quality non-magnetic connectors. In that case, the upper treble range may be enhanced when playing music with lots of percussion (typically cymbals).

Look for non-magnetic banana plugs when making a selection and you will be fine. If you do try more expensive plugs be sure they have a an excellent return policy.

Thanks for the advice. Keeping in mind what Roland68 allready posted I asked at distrelec (distributor of Stäubli) if the connectors are free of any magnetic materials but in the end they told me to connect with specialists at monacor international for further details of coating...

64.1045-21 | Stäubli Electrical Connectors Bananenstecker Isoliert Ohne Schutzhülle Stapelbar 4 mm Kupferlegierung Gold 30VAC 60VDC 32A Schraubanschluss Schwarz | Distrelec Deutschland

Kaufen Sie Bananenstecker Isoliert Ohne Schutzhülle Stapelbar 4 mm Kupferlegierung Gold 30VAC 60VDC 32A Schraubanschluss Schwarz. Entdecken Sie unsere aktuellen Angebote zu Prüfstecker. Lieferung am nächsten Tag möglich.

www.distrelec.de

 

[SIY]

I asked at distrelec (distributor of Stäubli) if the connectors are free of any magnetic materials

That superstition is making life difficult for you. Seriously, worry about stuff that matters like mechanical integrity.

My favorite is the guys who are freaked out about magnetic materials in the resistors or capacitors used in their tube amps. You know, right near the tubes and transformers.

 

[D’oh!]

Maintaining contact over time. It's possible, but you want a fairly gas-tight connection and that means clamping down hard.

Thanks again

That superstition is making life difficult for you. Seriously, worry about stuff that matters like mechanical integrity.

My favorite is the guys who are freaked out about magnetic materials in the resistors or capacitors used in their tube amps. You know, right near the tubes and transformers.

Well I am not superstitious. Like I still use a simple Oehlbach Kabel I purchased decades ago with my Rotel amplifier which unfortunately did not make it that far. It is just difficult to distinguish between science and myths and there are lot of oppinions and options about connecting speakers even in this thread.

Really, thank you for explaining what matters in terms of connecting,

 

[bgravato]

Thanks again

Well I am not superstitious. Like I still use a simple Oehlbach Kabel I purchased decades ago with my Rotel amplifier which unfortunately did not make it that far. It is just difficult to distinguish between science and myths and there are lot of oppinions and options about connecting speakers even in this thread.

Really, thank you for explaining what matters in terms of connecting,

Banana plugs are mostly for convenience and aesthetics. Unless they're damaged or severely flawed, impact on sound should be close to 0.

Most of this mumbo-jumbo myths are mostly snake-oil just to get people to spend a lot of money on things they don't need/don't get any benefit from.

Excluding defects, can banana plugs really make a difference in sound? Perhaps, but the difference is likely less than 0.1% (possibly much less). Which means you won't really notice any difference...

Most of this stuff is like healing crystals... It only works if you believe in it (the placebo effect is real).

Do you have a $100.000 audio system? If so, you probably have deep pockets and spending a couple hundred more bucks on some fancy banana plugs won't make a difference in your pocket and if that gives you some peace of mind it might be worth it (just for the peace of mind, not for the alleged improvement in sound). Otherwise, don't waste your time nor money in this non-sense stuff.

I've seen many people claiming they can hear differences here and there... but I don't believe it until they can pick the "better one" in a true double blind test at least 8 out of 10 times. And I'm yet to see that in any of these claims, whether it's banana plugs, cables, high bit rate/bit depth, etc...

 

[egellings]

That superstition is making life difficult for you. Seriously, worry about stuff that matters like mechanical integrity.

My favorite is the guys who are freaked out about magnetic materials in the resistors or capacitors used in their tube amps. You know, right near the tubes and transformers.

Magnetic materials in transformers? Hooda thunk?

 

[Killingbeans]

What do you think?

Judging by Google translate, when people talk about electrons having to overcome some undefined "barrier", they either don't understand basic electronics, or they bet on making money from people with that specific lack of knowledge.

In other words; It's just complete pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

[Guddu]

A discussion with some friends made me look at these posts where someone tested several banana plugs for resistance to find out which ones might be best to use:

Ultimate Banana Plugs Buyer's Guide - Audio Judgement

Reviewed 18 pairs of banana plugs from cheap to expensive. Stay clear of the ones which don't perform and see which one has my recommendation

audiojudgement.com

YouTube:

 

[antcollinet]

A discussion with some friends made me look at these posts where someone tested several banana plugs for resistance to find out which ones might be best to use:

Ultimate Banana Plugs Buyer's Guide - Audio Judgement

Reviewed 18 pairs of banana plugs from cheap to expensive. Stay clear of the ones which don't perform and see which one has my recommendation

audiojudgement.com

YouTube:

Can you give a TL'DR of the results. Did they actually do any measurements showing impact on the audio signal at the speaker?

Because if it is anything other than "The small resistance differences measured are not enough to give an audible difference in sound"

it is almost certainly nonsense - assuming none of the plugs were broken by design.

Could be useful for identifying inadequate quality components.

 

[Sokel]

Can you give a TL'DR of the results. Did they actually do any measurements showing impact on the audio signal at the speaker?

Because if it is anything other than "The small resistance differences measured are not enough to give an audible difference in sound"

it is almost certainly nonsense - assuming none of the plugs were broken by design.

This article leads to the Excel Spreadsheet with the results:

Ultimate Banana Plugs Buyer's Guide - Audio Judgement

Reviewed 18 pairs of banana plugs from cheap to expensive. Stay clear of the ones which don't perform and see which one has my recommendation

audiojudgement.com

 

[quattro98]

In any way, going back to SP cable terminals/plugs, I continue to stick to the really cheap non-magnet tin-electroplating pure copper (industry use) crimp terminals (about USD 6.3 = JPYen 900 per 100 pcs box!) together with very cheap heat-shrink insulator covers (USD 7.0 = JPYen 1,000 per 10 m!) which I use only 2 cm for one crimped terminal; (ref. #62).

I have a fancy crimp tool I needed for another project, so I went with similar spades for speaker cables. I used the Morris 11540 from Amazon, they were < $20 per 100. When I received them, they are KS Terminal SNB5-8, which is perfect for 10-12 AWG wire and the oversized binding posts on many speakers.

https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-11540-Terminal-Insulated/dp/B005GDG1SG/

 

[antcollinet]

Can you give a TL'DR of the results. Did they actually do any measurements showing impact on the audio signal at the speaker?

Because if it is anything other than "The small resistance differences measured are not enough to give an audible difference in sound"

it is almost certainly nonsense - assuming none of the plugs were broken by design.

Could be useful for identifying inadequate quality components.

Modified my post slightly, following the link from @Sokel, since the results in the spreadsheet are useful for identifying those components of inadequate quality.

 

[Guddu]

Can you give a TL'DR of the results. Did they actually do any measurements showing impact on the audio signal at the speaker?

Because if it is anything other than "The small resistance differences measured are not enough to give an audible difference in sound"

it is almost certainly nonsense - assuming none of the plugs were broken by design.

Could be useful for identifying inadequate quality components.

I can’t tell if all the tests he did are ultimate for final word, but I thought it might be a good starting point at least.
@Sokel already beat me to reply quicker, thank you.

 

[Speedskater]

This article leads to the Excel Spreadsheet with the results:

Unfortunately test test protocol is only hinted at in the video, but text description.

 

[Sokel]

Unfortunately test test protocol is only hinted at in the video, but text description.

He used normal 4 point Kelvin connection to measure just mOhm at start but because the (otherwise nice) tolerance of the DMM did not allow such precision he switched to feed it a constant 1A current and measure the voltage drop across the connection.
Seems legit.

 

[dualazmak]

As shared here, here, and here, nowadays I seldom use banana plugs.

In case if I would use banana plugs only tentatively, I always use Audio-Technica's solder-less two-screw banana plug AT6301;
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/AT6301
The pros of AT6301 are;
- reasonable price (JPYen 1,980 [USD 14.85] for four plugs, two pairs)
- rigid and well QC-ed gold-plated plugs
- the two screws are well (precisely) manufactured and can be fixed tightly
- the outer vinyl (ABS resin) sleeve is complete insulator (this is important for SP binding posts of rather short distance between L&R)
- the outer vinyl (ABS resin) sleeve can be screwed-in "after" the cable connection