Delicate higher harmonic frequencies vs wire Gauge no measurements on this subject...

[Earwax]

EDIT UPDATE SORRY FOR THE MIKSTAKE :

( I made a small error when stating the gauge of wire I used, the print on the wire is hard to see I always thought it was reading 18 but after looking with a magnifier on my cellphone it is indeed a larger 16 gauge

I am very disappointed this was missed I try to be as thorough as possible to keep my honesty solid. )

I have edited below to keep confusion down.

I can`t find any facts or even some persons data from measurements taken using equipment sensitive enough to explain what I`m hearing,

Please consider the many other people who might be reading this before you post an opinion that may have no factual assistance it`s hard enough online as it is, it`s only 1 thread.

Thank you for the consideration.

So what I`m hearing is when I use 24 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears there are more higher end harmonic frequencies.

When using 16 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears those higher end harmonic frequencies are less but there are much more lower harmonic frequencies.

This is not a simple one time one song affair that brought me to this experience...

So what I stumbled across was using 24 gauge wire and 16 gauge wire both connected to the posts on the amp and speakers now it appears to me after much critical listening of a variety of only about 5 songs to ensure higher harmonic and lower harmonic frequencies are all brought to the equation is that all are present.

I read some research on skin affect on both posts and speaker wire, but I can`t find any data or discussions on delicate harmonic frequencies vs wire gauge, this is something that needs to be measured and proven from someone with nothing to gain financially as those people will only cause repeated confusion hoping people will just give up and spend money to try and see.....

Google AI won`t help us here it`s just gathers what the majority are spreading and dishes it out to you....

For reference I`m using the Topping PA5 ii amp and the JBL N28 8ohm speakers.

The 16 gauge is on banana connectors that are 24k gold plated brass... ( Innostars brand on amazon)

24 gauge is bare wire to the posts....

I already had the 16 gauge speaker wire and was able to find more 24 gauge wire @ 100 feet for $7 Canadian. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000N7FQD6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Hoping for some measurements of these higher end delicate harmonics on varying gauges of wire.



Thank you for your time, don`t feel as though there is an urgent need for a response there is not.

 

[bmc0]

I can`t find any data or discussions on delicate harmonic frequencies vs wire gauge

That's because it doesn't exist. The explanation for what you hear is cognitive bias.

Edit: For clarity, there may well be an audible difference between 18 and 24 AWG due to the interaction of the speaker's impedance curve with the resistance of the smaller gauge wire. My comment above was specifically targeted toward the claim of audible differences between using 18 AWG by itself versus using 18 and 24 AWG together. Adding the thinner wire cannot have an audible effect unless something is malfunctioning.

 

[voodooless]

Hoping for some measurements of these higher end delicate harmonics on varying gauges of wire.

Wires don’t add or remove harmonics. Your mind plays tricks on you.

 

[Salt]

Put a microphone nearest in front of Your speaker and investigate if there is a difference.
If the microphone finds it, it's true (as it is more reliable than our ears, that are the outer posts of our brain ).

 

[kemmler3D]

What you are hearing is directionally plausible, (thinner wires roll off higher frequencies a little more) but unless the wire you're using is really long or really crappy, it would be surprising if you could hear the difference.

Usually the difference between really good and really bad wire is a fraction of a decibel at 20Khz, which we'll just say you need extremely good ears to detect, i.e. most people with "perfect" hearing still can't detect that.

Here is some data that's relevant to your question: https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/02/measurements-archimagos-colorful.html

He's also done several other tests of wires, worth looking around and seeing if he's tested your cables or ones like them.

Is one set of wires really old and the other is new? Sometimes oxidation / corrosion creates a larger difference between cables. Since you mention brass connectors I think it's possible?

@Salt also makes a good suggestion. If you close-mic the tweeter and run sweeps you should be able to show even small differences pretty clearly.

 

[JayGilb]

Are you bi-wiring the speakers with both the 18 and 24 gauge ?

 

[krabapple]

I can`t find any facts or even some persons data from measurements taken using equipment sensitive enough to explain what I`m hearing,

Please consider the many other people who might be reading this before you post an opinion that may have no factual assistance it`s hard enough online as it is, it`s only 1 thread.

Thank you for the consideration.

So what I`m hearing is when I use 24 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears there are more higher end harmonic frequencies.

When using 18 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears those higher end harmonic frequencies are less but there are much more lower harmonic frequencies.

This is not a simple one time one song affair that brought me to this experience...

<etc>

You've fallen down another nonsense hole thanks to relying on a purely subjective 'experiment'.
Thinner wire would, if anything, *reduce* high frequencies (including 'high frequency harmonics').
But you'd need quite a long run of it to make any audible difference.

 

[Earwax]

More facts.

 

[Earwax]

The 16 Gauge is 10 foot length and 24 Gauge is 10 feet in length, so to be clear 10 foot lengths of wire from amp to speaker on each speaker.

 

[Saponetto]

Pink noise, REW and calibrated mic shows me that thin Onyx interconnects equals fatty Sommercable interconnects, but the latter constantly whispers to my ears that they sound better, and my ears are quite gullible.

Going about speaker cables, if a simple mOhmmeter tells you almost no difference between the cables you are going to test, it's the thick one that is just more able to whisper good things to your ears.

BTW, which power level should these cables stand?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Hoping for some measurements of these higher end delicate harmonics on varying gauges of wire.

The problem with this approach is that the experiment is flawed from the outset. It’s measuring the wrong thing.
You don’t measure cognitive bias by testing the conductivity of varying gauges of wire.

 

[Salt]

More facts.

Badly soldered, nor crimped ...

 

[Earwax]

Are you bi-wiring the speakers with both the 18 and 24 gauge ?

Yes I am, it appears to me that the delicate harmonic frequencies could be canceling out each other on wire runs.

Again I made an error so it is in fact 16 AWG and 24 AWG.

 

[antcollinet]

Yes I am, it appears to me that the delicate harmonic frequencies could be canceling out each other on wire runs.

harmonic frequencies are not delicate. Any more than any other frequencies are.

Before falling further down the rabbit hole you are currently circling, you need to do some properly controlled blind abx testing. You'll most likely find there is no audible difference between the cables. And certainly non of the kind where thinner wire enhances higher frequencies.

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes I am, it appears to me that the delicate harmonic frequencies could be canceling out each other on wire runs.

If you look at archimagos tests you'll see that phase shift at 20khz is only about 2 degrees, not enough to cause cancellation.

 

[Zinda]

I can`t find any facts or even some persons data from measurements taken using equipment sensitive enough to explain what I`m hearing,

Please consider the many other people who might be reading this before you post an opinion that may have no factual assistance it`s hard enough online as it is, it`s only 1 thread.

Thank you for the consideration.

So what I`m hearing is when I use 24 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears there are more higher end harmonic frequencies.

When using 18 gauge pure copper speaker wire it appears those higher end harmonic frequencies are less but there are much more lower harmonic frequencies.

This is not a simple one time one song affair that brought me to this experience...

So what I stumbled across was using 24 gauge wire and 18 gauge wire both connected to the posts on the amp and speakers now it appears to me after much critical listening of a variety of only about 5 songs to ensure higher harmonic and lower harmonic frequencies are all brought to the equation is that all are present.

I read some research on skin affect on both posts and speaker wire, but I can`t find any data or discussions on delicate harmonic frequencies vs wire gauge, this is something that needs to be measured and proven from someone with nothing to gain financially as those people will only cause repeated confusion hoping people will just give up and spend money to try and see.....

Google AI won`t help us here it`s just gathers what the majority are spreading and dishes it out to you....

For reference I`m using the Topping PA5 ii amp and the JBL N28 8ohm speakers.

The 18 gauge is on banana connectors that are 24k gold plated brass... ( Innostars brand on amazon)

24 gauge is bare wire to the posts....

I already had the 18 gauge speaker wire and was able to find more 24 gauge wire @ 100 feet for $7 Canadian. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000N7FQD6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Hoping for some measurements of these higher end delicate harmonics on varying gauges of wire.



Thank you for your time, don`t feel as though there is an urgent need for a response there is not.

There have been studies done that confirm that there is a loss of DAMPING that relates directly to wire gauge and length. QSC has a chart that shows the wire run vs the gauge and how it affects the damping by loss in %. Damping however is not going to change the highest tones at all since its mainly needed to control woofer movement.

What you may be hearing is the loss of low tones whole using the 24ga which makes it seem like theres an accentuation of the highs while its actually a low tone loss that you hear. Connecting them both will make no real difference since 24ga is not enough to make any real change in overall resistance unless the 18ga is of very poor quality make up. Pure copper wire is not going to be found from any "new" sources unless you pay for it to be. 95% of cheap wires are copper clad wire. The core could be anything. I see now that a wire made of aluminum is worth bragging about for some reason, last time i checked it made terrible or impossible solder jobs, unable to tin the ends.

I personally hae been using 8 strand 22ga solid copper cable where each strand has a jacket. I run 2 cables to each speaker, giving the same cross area as a solid 15 gauge (but remains relaxed), i can guarantee that the strands will never become contaminated by oxygen like zipcord wires even the 12ga zero oxygen cables i bought 20 years ago which are all oxidized throughout and cant be used. For short runs ive been collecting power cords from old electronics from back when they were all 16ga pure copper muti strand and used to be about 8 feet long. Youll never find pure cooper Chinese wires, they dont exist. I swear I've tried soldering Chinese wire that was copper clad plastic strand!

 

[a4eaudio]

Have a friend/spouse/significant other help you blind AB test them.

While almost everyone here, who has not heard what you have heard, is pretty certain you didn't hear anything....there are examples of AB test where people can tell the difference between cables. Not the usual snake-oil about fancy cables being better, but usually there was something actually wrong - like the oxidation/corrosion example that kemmler3D mentions in post #5.

 

[boxerfan88]

Gosh!! How in the world is one gonna do ABX testing at home

AB testing using some sort of speaker cable switcher … maybe… but will already be quite challenging to pull off by oneself at home …

 

[Earwax]

Tone vs Harmonics....

 

[SIY]

Gosh!! How in the world is one gonna do ABX testing at home

Trivially easy these days. Record the signal at the speakers using two different wires, making sure levels are matched. Then ABX the recordings. DeltaWave software is your friend.