Reliable Copper Banana Plugs in Europe?

[Roland68]

Do you mean "me"?

At least in my setup (ref. here), based on my actual tuning practices/experiences, even with the relatively low currents for midrange-squawkers (Beryllium cone) tweeters (Beryllium cone) and metal-horn super-tweeters all of them dedicatedly driven by each of the HiFi amplifiers, I assume (or even believe) the ferromagnetic effect do "matter" more or less on audible sound quality.

Consequently I feel this company's approach and product policy on thier their (HiFi?) SP selectors, for example, are feasible and rational.
https://audiodesign.co.jp/HAS/HAS-3S.html
View attachment 341395

I'm sorry to say, never trust a manufacturer's statement that their products are not magnetic. This statement usually refers to the materials used and not to the coatings.
A nickel layer on contact surfaces is the absolute standard in the industry:
- because cheap
- good protective properties against corrosion and mechanical wear
- very good barrier layer, e.g. when gold plating copper.
- ideal for a cheap (thin) coating with silver or rhodium, as defects are not visible due to the silver color.

Most manufacturers are not even aware of the magnetic properties of the nickel coating (µm) because they are very low.
Since these coatings are usually done by external companies, it can happen that the customer is not even aware that there is a nickel layer underneath the 24 carat gold coating they ordered. Otherwise the price for the coating would not be in the single-digit cent range, but in the dollar range.
Basically all contacts are first thrown into the nickel bath.

A succinct statement from a supplier of 24 carat gold-plated copper wire end ferrules: “Copper always has a nickel layer underneath.” He's right, because anything else would be really expensive.

 

[SSS]

I'm sorry to say, never trust a manufacturer's statement that their products are not magnetic. This statement usually refers to the materials used and not to the coatings.
A nickel layer on contact surfaces is the absolute standard in the industry:
- because cheap
- good protective properties against corrosion and mechanical wear
- very good barrier layer, e.g. when gold plating copper.
- ideal for a cheap (thin) coating with silver or rhodium, as defects are not visible due to the silver color.

Most manufacturers are not even aware of the magnetic properties of the nickel coating (µm) because they are very low.
Since these coatings are usually done by external companies, it can happen that the customer is not even aware that there is a nickel layer underneath the 24 carat gold coating they ordered. Otherwise the price for the coating would not be in the single-digit cent range, but in the dollar range.
Basically all contacts are first thrown into the nickel bath.

A succinct statement from a supplier of 24 carat gold-plated copper wire end ferrules: “Copper always has a nickel layer underneath.” He's right, because anything else would be really expensive.

Interesting. Personally I am an old friend of Hirschmann lab banana plugs and jacks. This due my profession in electronics. But this is measurment and not audio. At hewlett-packard the pc board traces were refined with gold coating in former times. But I can't remember whether there was nickel used between them.

 

[Sokel]

Pomona 5406 seems like a good deal

Body – Brass, Nickel Plated (Model 5406 is Gold Plated)
Spring – Beryllium Copper, Nickel Plated (Model 5406 Gold Plated)

but only for cables up to 3mm on the side hole.

https://warwickts.com/_data/site/261/product/1056/Pomona5406.pdf

 

[dualazmak]

I'm sorry to say, never trust a manufacturer's statement that their products are not magnetic. This statement usually refers to the materials used and not to the coatings.

Thank you for your invaluable educational information.
Even though I shall never use such (their) SP selectors, your information would strongly suggest that we should actually subjectively intensively compare such selectors within our own audio rig before to issue our purchase order!

In any way, going back to SP cable terminals/plugs, I continue to stick to the really cheap non-magnet tin-electroplating pure copper (industry use) crimp terminals (about USD 6.3 = JPYen 900 per 100 pcs box!) together with very cheap heat-shrink insulator covers (USD 7.0 = JPYen 1,000 per 10 m!) which I use only 2 cm for one crimped terminal; (ref. #62).

 

[Thomas_A]

My favorite plugs are made of brass and has a stainless steel spring. The horror!

View attachment 339887

The Deltron type is the best IMO. Good snug contact with a single spring, reliable.

 

[Roland68]

Thank you for your invaluable educational information.
Even though I shall never use such (their) SP selectors, your information would strongly suggest that we should actually subjectively intensively compare such selectors within our own audio rig before to issue our purchase order!

In any way, going back to SP cable terminals/plugs, I continue to stick to the really cheap non-magnet tin-electroplating pure copper (industry use) crimp terminals (about USD 6.3 = JPYen 900 per 100 pcs box!) together with very cheap heat-shrink insulator covers (USD 7.0 = JPYen 1,000 per 10 m!) which I use only 2 cm for one crimped terminal; (ref. #62).

Why educational?
The information is a mixture of my work in the industry in the area of high energy products, for which we have heavy-duty 4, 5 and 6mm plugs manufactured, and my purchases of hollow banana plugs, gold-plated ferrules and RCA plugs in the last few weeks.

All high-quality products for which there was either information or assumption based on advertising/description that they were not magnetic.
Result:
- Over 20 different screwable hollow bananas, gold-plated or rhodium-plated, all magnetic
- 5 gold-plated ferrules from different manufacturers, supposedly only 24 carat gold-plated, all magnetic.
- Over 20 different high-quality RCA plugs gold-plated or rhodium-plated, 5 of which clearly state "not magnetic", all magnetic

Very sobering...
Actually, we definitely wanted to have non-magnetic connectors for measurements for a project that has been running for a long time, but I am now close to ordering my own sample connectors.

 

[Killingbeans]

Here's a fact to keep the audiophiles up at night: 99% of the legs of the components on the PCBs in their precious gear is made of tin coated steel

 

[amper42]

With regard to this statement in particular, I would like to point out the human factor, which is almost never taken into account.
People don't perceive differences the same way, regardless of audio, food, drink, quality, smells, textures, etc.
These differences can be small or unnoticeable for one person, while for other people they are worlds in between. I have noticed this again and again throughout my life.
I always found that interesting with wine and beer. While it took off my shoes, twisted my toenails and was simply undrinkable, others found it "tasty".

This explains at least part of the discrepancies and why impacts are assessed so differently.
The other part is of course influence and imagination, which I have experienced just as often.
The same problems that we have in audio comparisons and blind tests also exist in wine tastings. I was once surprised that I liked a French house wine better than a very expensive and award-winning wine. Funnily enough, at a large blinded wine competition 1 year later, with 5000 different wines, the same thing came out. That calmed me down.

What do you think of the Viborg VB401S Speaker Banana Plug Connectors Screw Locking,4MM Pure Copper Speaker Terminals for Speaker Cable, Home Theater, Audio/Video Receiver, Amplifiers 4PCS (Silver Plated):

Amazon.com

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Here's a fact to keep the audiophiles up at night: 99% of the legs of the components on the PCBs in their precious gear is made of tin coated steel

Cheeeeseey!

I can imagine the smearing is off the charts..

 

[Roland68]

What do you think of the Viborg VB401S Speaker Banana Plug Connectors Screw Locking,4MM Pure Copper Speaker Terminals for Speaker Cable, Home Theater, Audio/Video Receiver, Amplifiers 4PCS (Silver Plated):

Amazon.com

I received a set of Viborg VB401R rhodium plated today. The metal clip is of course slightly magnetic, unfortunately so are the screws. The plug itself doesn't seem to be magnetic, but I'll check that more closely.

 

[dualazmak]

I received a set of Viborg VB401R rhodium plated today. The metal clip is of course slightly magnetic, unfortunately so are the screws. The plug itself doesn't seem to be magnetic, but I'll check that more closely.

Good morning from Japan.

Why not test and intensively measure very cheap but robust non-magnet tin-electroplating pure copper (industry use) crimp terminals (about USD 6.3 = JPYen 900 per 100 pcs box!)? Of course you need to use suitable proper robust pro-grade crimper (ref. here #62). I am very much looking forward to hearing your comparative objective review on it with other expensive bananas.

 

[Roland68]

Good morning from Japan.

Why not test and intensively measure very cheap but robust non-magnet tin-electroplating pure copper (industry use) crimp terminals (about USD 6.3 = JPYen 900 per 100 pcs box!)? Of course you need to use suitable proper robust pro-grade crimper (ref. here #62). I am very much looking forward to hearing your comparative objective review on it with other expensive bananas.

This is very simple, in contrast to coatings, tin plating has a much higher contact resistance. That's why only screwed hollow bananas are used and only non-tinned wire end sleeves and strands/cables. Tinning is only permitted for shielding, but only if it is not used for signal transmission. This is one of the boundary conditions that we set for the project many years ago. Aside from the fact that there are reasons for this, changing the parameters would be too time-consuming and expensive.

It's not due to the possibility of professional crimp connections, as almost all connections are crimped in our high-energy applications. We use a range of hand lever and hydraulic presses with 1.5-25 tonnes of pressing force. This also makes cold welding possible.
However, we will soon also be carrying out tests with connections using the resistance welding process under inert gas, as this allows us to fuse plugs and strands without any additional materials without creating contact resistance.

 

[NTK]

Tin plating is prone to tin whisker formation.

 

[Roland68]

Tin plating is prone to tin whisker formation.

In older devices, not just in the audio sector, it is often confused with dust deposits.

 

[dualazmak]

In older devices, not just in the audio sector, it is often confused with dust deposits.

Yes, this is one of the reasons for my semiannual intensive cleaning of all the metal-to-metal connectors and contacts using IPA, as far as I can in my audio rig (ref. here and here).

 

[dualazmak]

This is very simple, in contrast to coatings, tin plating has a much higher contact resistance. That's why only screwed hollow bananas are used and only non-tinned wire end sleeves and strands/cables. Tinning is only permitted for shielding, but only if it is not used for signal transmission. This is one of the boundary conditions that we set for the project many years ago. Aside from the fact that there are reasons for this, changing the parameters would be too time-consuming and expensive.

It's not due to the possibility of professional crimp connections, as almost all connections are crimped in our high-energy applications. We use a range of hand lever and hydraulic presses with 1.5-25 tonnes of pressing force. This also makes cold welding possible.
However, we will soon also be carrying out tests with connections using the resistance welding process under inert gas, as this allows us to fuse plugs and strands without any additional materials without creating contact resistance.

OK, I understood well of your points.

So, do you believe that our audio SP high level input to SP drivers would be categorized as "signal transmission" in terms of currents and frequency?
I also wonder how much higher the contact resistance of tin-electroplating crimped pure copper terminals compared to "your mentioned" non-tinned bananas in our audio SP-cabling applications, and whether the difference is high enough affecting sound quality, or not...

You wrote as "This is one of the boundary conditions that we set for the project many years ago.", but I still do not fully understand what would be your "project"; is (was) it dedicated in audio engineering field or wider than that? (I myself am now only interested in audio SP-cabling...)

BTW, I watched several times that electric construction company people were using fairly big and heavy "hydraulic press" for crimping thick 6600V AC PS cable to huge cubicle-type transformers when we (my company) built new pharmaceutical research building; that was quite an impressive hard work for my eyes.

 

[Palladium]

Here's a fact to keep the audiophiles up at night: 99% of the legs of the components on the PCBs in their precious gear is made of tin coated steel

Yesterday at work, I laid 4 meters of a 20AWG cable pair for a voice speaker used by a terrestrial 2-way radio inside a car.

The added resistance over the naked speaker didn't even register 0.1 ohm on the multimeter, including the cheapest six butt crimps known to man.

 

[dualazmak]

Yesterday at work, I laid 4 meters of a 20AWG cable pair for a voice speaker used by a terrestrial 2-way radio inside a car.

The added resistance over the naked speaker didn't even register 0.1 ohm on the multimeter, including the cheapest six butt crimps known to man.

Nice to hear so.
Usually AWG20 is 0.519 sq-mm corresponds JIS (Japan Industry Standard) 0.5 sq copper twisted-strand flexible cable, and its standard resistance is about 36.7 Ohm/km (20 degree C temperature). So generally speaking, your 4 m extension added only about 0.147 Ohm with suitable crimping, I assume.

 

[Roland68]

OK, I understood well of your points.

So, do you believe that our audio SP high level input to SP drivers would be categorized as "signal transmission" in terms of currents and frequency?
I also wonder how much higher the contact resistance of tin-electroplating crimped pure copper terminals compared to "your mentioned" non-tinned bananas in our audio SP-cabling applications, and whether the difference is high enough affecting sound quality, or not...

You wrote as "This is one of the boundary conditions that we set for the project many years ago.", but I still do not fully understand what would be your "project"; is (was) it dedicated in audio engineering field or wider than that? (I myself am now only interested in audio SP-cabling...)

BTW, I watched several times that electric construction company people were using fairly big and heavy "hydraulic press" for crimping thick 6600V AC PS cable to huge cubicle-type transformers when we (my company) built new pharmaceutical research building; that was quite an impressive hard work for my eyes.

A signal is always a signal, regardless of whether it is analog or digital and regardless of the power with which this signal is transmitted. As long as information is included, it differs from a pure power supply (cable).
It is a pure audio project that focuses on sonic aspects. It was clear to us back then that it wouldn't be over in 1-2 years and we had to make sure that everything we do was comparable, understandable, transparent and repeatable at any time. To do this, external influences and mutual influences also had to be excluded. That's why we had to establish extensive regulations and boundary conditions.
But I never imagined that the project would last more than two decades

Yes, laying and connecting such cables is really hard work. I was “allowed” to have a hand in the construction of a large data center/server farm.
However, we call these workers very rudely “cable monkeys”.

 

[Falco]

I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with Speaker Snaps? I know the system from Wago connectors but hadn't seen it for speaker cable yet. I ordered a few and I have to say, they're very easy to apply. Did not do any measurements on them so far.

Speaker Snap UK, home of the fastest, simplest Speaker Banana Plug

Speaker Snap are committed to getting your HiFi and Audio kit connected up quickly and securely, so you are up and running, enjoying your system and music, with quality connections, in a SNAP.

speakersnap.co.uk