Bottom line for me is,
"Hey Paul, can I have your IRS V's now that you don't love them any more?"
Thanks,
Sal
"Hey Paul, can I have your IRS V's now that you don't love them any more?"
Thanks,
Sal
True, and he has been doing things that way his entire career. Why change in his mind? What’s odd, though, is that it indicates the recordings were mixed to be neutral despite the FR30’s response. At least as far as I can tell. Without the “FR30 in a can” EQ they are very stuffy. With it the tonality becomes very nice and open with good spatial effects in the headphones. I listened to all of “Things worth Remembering” once it was in place and the mixing was actually very good. I suspect some younger mixing engineer was tasked with doing the dirty work. Upshot is that if they used those recordings for the demos the FR30s probably sounded amazing to reviewers. Paul gets to have it both ways. His older clientele get their sparkly speakers, and reviewers at the shows get the neutral tonality they expect.You have to remember that Paul has 70 year old ears. He can't change that. So, it will affect everything he listens too. Plus he sets up sound system without any electronic help. All by ear. You can only go so far with 1980s and 90s setup methods. He just likes the "old" ways of doing things regardless of how it sounds. His company, so he can do what he wants.
I’ll fite u for them! Joking aside I wonder how they sound compared to the FR30s?Bottom line for me is,
"Hey Paul, can I have your IRS V's now that you don't love them any more?"
Thanks,
Sal
Anyone's guess at this point.I’ll fite u for them! Joking aside I wonder how they sound compared to the FR30s?
From the measurements in Stereophile, they have excellent performance by todays standards. Back in the 80's that would have been lightyears ahead of everything else.Anyone's guess at this point.
I would have loved to hear Paul's V's in his custom room before he moved them,
I never did get a chance to hear the IRS V back in the day.
I do remember hearing the IRS Beta's a few times back in the day. I believe it was at Paul Heath Audio in downtown Chicago sometime in the 1980s. I near broke my jaw from it hitting the ground, at the time I thought it the most incredible thing I ever heard.
Where are those measurements?From the measurements in Stereophile, they have excellent performance by todays standards. Back in the 80's that would have been lightyears ahead of everything else.
Those are measurements of the Beta though, not the V.Infinity IRS Beta loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements (from June 1989, Vol.12 No.6)www.stereophile.com
They where the ones you mentioned you had heard, which I thought made it relevant given your impression of them. The measurements show why they sounded so good compared to other stuff. The IRS-Vs have no posted measurements AFAIK. Given the Betas good performance, I have no reason to doubt. Interesting about the fragility. Paul has mentioned he rebuilt the IRS-Vs, both the bass modules and the “wings.” Don’t know offhand what was done. Never the less Paul still seems to swear by the ribbon stuff. Has some good characteristics, but their large size acoustically is an issue. The large Neo drivers really benefit from a horn to tame them, but that would not fit the PS Audio styling or the desire for a wide listening window, so they are mounted like dome tweeters and mids instead with small wave guides.Those are measurements of the Beta though, not the V.
The Beta was a much much smaller version and only cost appox $12k, or $30k in todays money, about the same as PS new FR30
OTOH the V were about $50k or $120k today.
To me the kool thing about the Beta was they would fit in a normal room. The un-kool part was they still were about 10x what I could afford for a speaker. LOL
In any case they were both great but the panels were fragile. Dang near every review I read, etc had problems with a panel or 2 during the review period. But I believe the same can be said for just about any panel speaker of the day, electrostatic or whatever. I always loved the way Quads, Maggies, etc, presented inner detail, etc. They were the only things that rivaled my La Scala's SQ for inner detail, IMHO.. But they wouldn't have lasted 2 days in my crib before they let the smoke out with a light show of dancing lightening across the panels. LOL
Let the raves begin.
Time marches on.
Which recordings?I've been a lurker here, so first post lol. But, when I heard some of the Octave recordings I could not figure out why they sounded so dull on neutral equipment given Paul's leanings. But after I read this, I decided to use the FR30's published measurements along with some guestimation on their resultant in-room response to construct an EQ to approximate their response on a set of tonally neutral IEMs. And you know what? They now sound AMAZING!!! I actually want to go listen to them now even though I don't I really like the genre. Hmmm, aren't these recordings also being used for the FR30's demos as well? I will let the reader draw their own conclusions...
The ATCs I have seen in his later videos, and I suspect they are no coincidence given the fact that he does want to make actual, useable music with Octave records. The albums are "Temporary Circumstances" and "Things Worth Remembering", and yes they are the ones on YouTube. As far as I can see, the demos with video footage have these tracks being used for the auditions of the FR30. But given how dull and uninteresting they sound, there's no reason to get any other format since there is not a lot you could do to make audio that bad by simply uploading it. To cut the "its compression losses" argument off at the knees, I have done direct comparisons between the Opus251 and FLACs to see what the differences are, and they are very slight. As far as I could tell its mainly very fine level detail being lost and artifacts in recordings with very low level source material. Here they are just really, really dull and uninteresting. But if one applies a guestimate for the FR30's in-room response, they suddenly become quite enjoyable with good tonality and imaging. Without it, they sound like poor headphones. With it, good. But then any other audio played for comparison becomes insufferably garish due to the excess treble.Which recordings?
How do you know the recordings you listened to where mixed/mastered FR30's?
Maybe they were done before FR30 even moved into their studio?
They've been using ATC's for a while...
Shouldn't jump to a conclusion which may be completely wrong based on wrong assumptions (that these were mixed/mastered on FR30)
And it would be interesting to try it with recordings directly purchased from Octave/PS Audio. Given what I have heard so far, its not a risk I would want to take, even if I like the songs. If they do sound different, then the spectral envelope could be examined to see what actually changed to sort out the discrepancy. I did buy his Audiophile's Guide. It was amusing and fun to read, but still not very enlightening, and as bad as one would think from a technical standpoint. Here I don't even get the amusement if that is what they genuinely sound like.Which recordings?
How do you know the recordings you listened to where mixed/mastered FR30's?
Maybe they were done before FR30 even moved into their studio?
They've been using ATC's for a while...
Shouldn't jump to a conclusion which may be completely wrong based on wrong assumptions (that these were mixed/mastered on FR30)
Give it a try on a graphic EQ: 32 Hz: -2dB, 62-1 kHz: 0dB, 2 kHz: +2dB, 4 kHz: 0dB, 8 kHz: +5dB, 16 kHz: +7dB. Headphones, of course, will need to comply with the Harman target.
Sorry, not on the topic, but maybe you listened to PBN Audio loudspeakers? I have zero experience with audio, but I really like the look huge loudspeakers just like PBN Audio, Legacy Audio, Lenard Audio, and the other. Now just a question. How do such columns cope with measurements? Especially compared to the Kii Three with bxt, Neumann KH 420 with subwoofers and other objectively good speakers.I do remember hearing the IRS Beta's a few times back in the day. I believe it was at Paul Heath Audio in downtown Chicago sometime in the 1980s. I near broke my jaw from it hitting the ground, at the time I thought it the most incredible thing I ever heard.
Just to be safe, you may want to add some amp and DAC modeling as well.Hi - sorry but why would I want to try FR30 EQ on my KEF speakers at home to listen to Octave Recordings mixed/mastered on ATC's or other speakers?
Apologies if I'm missing something here but I don't follow the reasoning at all.
Then why did you ask a question you already had an answer to? If you wished to object, then please just say so outright rather than frame it as a question. You asked why and I provided my reasoning.Hi - sorry but why would I want to try FR30 EQ on my KEF speakers at home to listen to Octave Recordings mixed/mastered on ATC's or other speakers?
Apologies if I'm missing something here but I don't follow the reasoning at all.
I would love to hear them, but there is nowhere to listen to them around here. They weren't at AXPONA.23 pages of comments. I have a few dumb questions. Has anyone heard the FRS 30s? Does anyone own the FRS 30s? I think many are just pontificating on information that may not be true. BUT and this is a big but, I could be wrong. Some of you may own the FRS 30. But I was just wondering.........