Hi all,
Context:
I've been pretty happy with the performance of my Fostex PM04 monitors (which were previously converted to passive, so I made a nice crossover for them) for a while, but have recently sold off some equipment with a view to purchasing a reasonably-nice nearfield setup. Budget is slightly-flexible, but I'd like to keep to somewhere around £1k. I'd like active monitors (right now, there's a HiFi amp sitting on my desk), and also to improve on the ~70Hz LF extension that I have at the moment.
I mostly work in live sound, but often take multi-track recordings of the shows I mix. For my own enjoyment, I'll do some mixing at home. Occasionally, this results in a live album etc etc etc. This is mostly a hobby, but sometimes I get paid for it. Obviously I'd also like to be able to use this system for general music playback etc, but that's just another input on the desk.
I mix using the outputs from my digital mixing desk, capturing the stereo mix via USB link to a DAW. So, XLR outputs from my desk. I have some EQ available:
- 6x bands of parametric EQ, maximum Q of 4.
- 30-band graphic EQ
- 12x bands of "anti-feedback" notches. They all have to have the same Q-factor, which can be set anywhere from 10-20. Negative gain only.
These EQ are all fixed-stereo. I can't process L/R individually. Fortunately, my room etc is pretty symmetrical.
NB - I capture the mix pre-EQ, so I can make full use of the processing above.
Room:
The room is tiny: 2m wide, 2.6m long. My desk (a cheap Ikea thing, reflective) faces the window on the small wall, and my current listening distance is ~0.8m from the line that joins the speakers. The speakers are currently sat on some short isolating stands on the sill, which is 1m wide and 190mm deep. The window frame adds a few cm of clearance from rear ports/connectors etc, but the flat surface is of limited depth.
Acoustic treatment is via shelves full of "chaos". Not ideal, but not much (physical) room to improve. I don't notice any big problems there - the nearfield situation probably helps.
Concerns:
- Obviously with the speakers close to a window, I'll need to block the direct sunlight from hitting the speakers so that they don't cook on a (rare) sunny day.
- When I last tried it, having a subwoofer under the desk was really really audible and obvious, despite measuring very well at my listening position with a crossover point around 70Hz. The crossover was steep, and the sub itself wasn't cheap rubbish (ie, minimal harmonic distortion to call attention to the sub's location).
- There isn't a lot of space under the desk, on account of storing a few racks under there for my PA systems. I could probably make space for a sub if necessary, though.
Priorities etc:
- Clean and accurate sound that I can mix on.
- Adequate LF extension
- Fitting where I need the speakers to go. I don't have much/any flexibility with regards to room layout.
Naturally, I've put the options I've considered so far in a spreadsheet (below). I've used the -6dB point for "LF extension", figuring these speakers will all have a highpass filter that's quickly rolling off there. ie, basically-zero useful output below the noted frequency.
The KH120II immediately has a mark against it: it'll hang ~40mm over the front of the window sill.
Each option has its pros and cons. I find the Genelec monitors look quite "cute", while the Neumanns are on the ugly side of functional. I've also read of problems communicating with the Neumann monitors via app/MA1/whatever.
Obviously, the list is non-exhaustive. I'd appreciate other suggestions. Bonus points if it's in a similar format.
The DSP-based monitors hold limited appeal: it's extra money spent, when I already have a useful amount of EQ available. Plus, I don't particularly like the idea of requiring software to make full use of the speaker. The last benefit that I can see is the FIR-based crossovers. The step/impulse responses are a bit better than the analogue counterparts. Is that worth it? I've played around with FIR-based crossovers, and it's difficult to say for sure that it's definitely an improvement. It's sometimes possible to detect a difference.
At the moment, I'm favouring the simplicity of a pair of Genelec 8030C. However, the 8010+7040 option has considerably more LF extension. On one hand, you can't mix what you can't hear (ie, get the sub!) but on the other hand, subs just don't seem to work well with me/my room/desk.
Perhaps it's worth buying 2x 8030C, 2x 8010A and 1x 7040A, trying both systems, and keeping the winner.
Apologies for the long post. If anyone has any input (even if it's just a "get a grip, Chris, buy the 8030s and be done with it!"), I'd appreciate the conversation. It's easy to chase ideas around in your head without reaching any solid conclusions.
Thanks,
Chris
Context:
I've been pretty happy with the performance of my Fostex PM04 monitors (which were previously converted to passive, so I made a nice crossover for them) for a while, but have recently sold off some equipment with a view to purchasing a reasonably-nice nearfield setup. Budget is slightly-flexible, but I'd like to keep to somewhere around £1k. I'd like active monitors (right now, there's a HiFi amp sitting on my desk), and also to improve on the ~70Hz LF extension that I have at the moment.
I mostly work in live sound, but often take multi-track recordings of the shows I mix. For my own enjoyment, I'll do some mixing at home. Occasionally, this results in a live album etc etc etc. This is mostly a hobby, but sometimes I get paid for it. Obviously I'd also like to be able to use this system for general music playback etc, but that's just another input on the desk.
I mix using the outputs from my digital mixing desk, capturing the stereo mix via USB link to a DAW. So, XLR outputs from my desk. I have some EQ available:
- 6x bands of parametric EQ, maximum Q of 4.
- 30-band graphic EQ
- 12x bands of "anti-feedback" notches. They all have to have the same Q-factor, which can be set anywhere from 10-20. Negative gain only.
These EQ are all fixed-stereo. I can't process L/R individually. Fortunately, my room etc is pretty symmetrical.
NB - I capture the mix pre-EQ, so I can make full use of the processing above.
Room:
The room is tiny: 2m wide, 2.6m long. My desk (a cheap Ikea thing, reflective) faces the window on the small wall, and my current listening distance is ~0.8m from the line that joins the speakers. The speakers are currently sat on some short isolating stands on the sill, which is 1m wide and 190mm deep. The window frame adds a few cm of clearance from rear ports/connectors etc, but the flat surface is of limited depth.
Acoustic treatment is via shelves full of "chaos". Not ideal, but not much (physical) room to improve. I don't notice any big problems there - the nearfield situation probably helps.
Concerns:
- Obviously with the speakers close to a window, I'll need to block the direct sunlight from hitting the speakers so that they don't cook on a (rare) sunny day.
- When I last tried it, having a subwoofer under the desk was really really audible and obvious, despite measuring very well at my listening position with a crossover point around 70Hz. The crossover was steep, and the sub itself wasn't cheap rubbish (ie, minimal harmonic distortion to call attention to the sub's location).
- There isn't a lot of space under the desk, on account of storing a few racks under there for my PA systems. I could probably make space for a sub if necessary, though.
Priorities etc:
- Clean and accurate sound that I can mix on.
- Adequate LF extension
- Fitting where I need the speakers to go. I don't have much/any flexibility with regards to room layout.
Naturally, I've put the options I've considered so far in a spreadsheet (below). I've used the -6dB point for "LF extension", figuring these speakers will all have a highpass filter that's quickly rolling off there. ie, basically-zero useful output below the noted frequency.
The KH120II immediately has a mark against it: it'll hang ~40mm over the front of the window sill.
Each option has its pros and cons. I find the Genelec monitors look quite "cute", while the Neumanns are on the ugly side of functional. I've also read of problems communicating with the Neumann monitors via app/MA1/whatever.
Obviously, the list is non-exhaustive. I'd appreciate other suggestions. Bonus points if it's in a similar format.
The DSP-based monitors hold limited appeal: it's extra money spent, when I already have a useful amount of EQ available. Plus, I don't particularly like the idea of requiring software to make full use of the speaker. The last benefit that I can see is the FIR-based crossovers. The step/impulse responses are a bit better than the analogue counterparts. Is that worth it? I've played around with FIR-based crossovers, and it's difficult to say for sure that it's definitely an improvement. It's sometimes possible to detect a difference.
At the moment, I'm favouring the simplicity of a pair of Genelec 8030C. However, the 8010+7040 option has considerably more LF extension. On one hand, you can't mix what you can't hear (ie, get the sub!) but on the other hand, subs just don't seem to work well with me/my room/desk.
Perhaps it's worth buying 2x 8030C, 2x 8010A and 1x 7040A, trying both systems, and keeping the winner.
Apologies for the long post. If anyone has any input (even if it's just a "get a grip, Chris, buy the 8030s and be done with it!"), I'd appreciate the conversation. It's easy to chase ideas around in your head without reaching any solid conclusions.
Thanks,
Chris
