Poll: Do you like Harman's target curve for headphones bass response?

[vert]

OK, the Harman curve for headphones has been puzzling me. I have set up a "headphone system" fairly recently which I'm still tweaking when I have time. I've started EQing my headphones either via Morphit, or ReaQ with settings from github (typically Crinacle or Oratory1990 settings). On both my Stax Sigma and Sennheiser 280 PRO, I get way too much bass with occasional distortion, when I use the Harman correction in Morphit, and tend to much prefer their Diffuse Field correction. I'm not done exploring the github settings but they seem to work fine.

 

[BillG]

The question could be reformulated as "how close to the average preference is your preference?"

Then, rather than posting a verbose and subjective description of our preferences, we could define and then post our favorite FR response.

Code could be reused and deliver an objective "Member Preference Score" for each and every one of us.

Finally, a ranking could be established and we would finally know which members of this forum are to be recommended (on average).

Are you proposing that ASR develop its own preference curves? It almost sounds as if you are.

 

[BillG]

For headphones it's really really nice.

But for speakers the sound becomes really really dull. makes me think that it truly gives you a neutral speaker so the music would set the mood instead of the speakers becoming an instrument of their own.

The Harman curves we're discussing aren't meant for speakers, though, and they'd sound way off if applied to them.

 

[Astrozombie]

I used to think so, but on certain things I'm listening to (NAD HP50) I sometimes get the feeling the sound is a little too muddy/warm and I switch to my Beyer DT770s or Senn HD58x. I'm even more surprised when I prefer the Sennheisers as those are also known for being a bit "veiled", I guess the difference between being Open vs Closed?

 

[Lero]

Depends.
I love Sundara with harman eq, but i use -2db on the hi-shelf 100hz filter on my dt880 600ohms.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Are you proposing that ASR develop its own preference curves? It almost sounds as if you are.

ASR has its own target curve. It appears to be within the range of different Harman targets, so it's not far off overall.

 

[BillG]

ASR has its own target curve. It appears to be within the range of different Harman targets, so it's not far off overall.

Do you have a graph of it overlaid against the Harman curves?

 

[infinitesymphony]

Do you have a graph of it overlaid against the Harman curves?

I was just going by what Amir said in response to someone else's question about the target curve in the headphone reviews. After lining up the graphs in Photoshop it looks like the ASR target curve (dashed line) is very close to the Harman curve labeled OE 2017 (orange) on this graph. Note that the following quick and dirty mash-up is not precise in any way--I tried to align the sides of the graph, the vertical 5 dB scale increments, and the horizontal scale (by aligning the 94 dB crossing with 0 dB):

 

[BillG]

I was just going by what Amir said in response to someone else's question about the target curve in the headphone reviews. After lining up the graphs in Photoshop it looks like the ASR target curve (dashed line) is very close to the Harman curve labeled OE 2017 (orange) on this graph. Note that the following quick and dirty mash-up is not precise in any way--I tried to align the sides of the graph, the vertical 5 dB scale increments, and the horizontal scale (by aligning the 94 dB crossing with 0 dB):

View attachment 108666

Thanks for your efforts.

 

[abdo123]

The Harman curves we're discussing aren't meant for speakers, though, and they'd sound way off if applied to them.

I meant the Harman curve that is meant for speakers (higher bass, lower treble).

 

[ZolaIII]

Not only i don't like the bass boost but I hate Harman hump there, should be other way round (diffuse) even if I wanted some. I am convinced that our "experience" regarding bass there is more related to the state of our hearing, more bass more damaged it is. So after recent talk I think I should call the current Harman curve as geriatric one for 50~60 years old seniors. But enough with the jokes, seriously dynamic drivers reach their distortion limit in lows so it's better to have it busted naturally so that you can dial it down (EQ) instead other way around making them distort on lower listening lv.

 

[DeLub]

For speakers as well, I think the bass is too much. I prefer the "classic" B&K curve. Which I actually also like for headphones: this is the basis for some of the EQ presets from Oratory1990 called "optimum hi-fi curve". I use the B&K curve for my speakers and the optimum hifi preset for my HD600.

 

[thewas]

Please keep in mind that for loudspeakers that target depends also on the reverberation and directivity functions vs. frequency plus the listening distance. Generally the consensus seems to be flat direct sound above transition frequency and no real consensus below that, monitoring companies like Genelec and Neumann rather flat bass and Harman a bass boost, which is also a result of the corresponding usual listening distances (rather nearfield for monitoring) and room acoustics (more treated for monitoring).

 

[Robbo99999]

ASR has its own target curve. It appears to be within the range of different Harman targets, so it's not far off overall.

I was just going by what Amir said in response to someone else's question about the target curve in the headphone reviews. After lining up the graphs in Photoshop it looks like the ASR target curve (dashed line) is very close to the Harman curve labeled OE 2017 (orange) on this graph. Note that the following quick and dirty mash-up is not precise in any way--I tried to align the sides of the graph, the vertical 5 dB scale increments, and the horizontal scale (by aligning the 94 dB crossing with 0 dB):

View attachment 108666

I traced the Target Curve that Amir uses using VirtuixCAD's SPL Trace Tool, and then imported that into REW and overlaid it on 2018 Headphone Harman Curve, and it's the same. I don't have the pic showing it, as I just concluded - "yes it's the same".

 

[infinitesymphony]

I traced the Target Curve that Amir uses using VirtuixCAD's SPL Trace Tool, and then imported that into REW and overlaid it on 2018 Headphone Harman Curve, and it's the same. I don't have the pic showing it, as I just concluded - "yes it's the same".

Makes me so curious to know why he would say this:

Sure but let's call it ASR Target Curve. There are reasons why this is not exactly the same as Harman's which I won't go into now.

Just to let others know, that post has a zip file with the ASR preference curve attached. Guessing that is the post we are both referencing.

 

[Robbo99999]

Makes me so curious to know why he would say this:

Just to let others know, that post has a zip file with the ASR preference curve attached. Guessing that is the post we are both referencing.

I think he meant that because there are some elements of the GRAS measurement kits that you can get today are not exactly exactly the same as that on which the research was done within which the Harman Curve was created then you can't really call it the Harman Curve, even though the curve is following the same dB & Frequency points. Amir mentioned one time that there was one element that was custom made and is no longer available (was never available on the market).

Tomorrow or sometime I'll also do the overlay of Amir's vs Harman Curve again just to double check it's exactly the same (I'll use the attachment you linked this time instead of tracing it in VirtuixCAD).....I can't quite remember if I thought yes it's exactly the same, or yes it's soooo close that it's the same.

 

[fun]

Initially, I made a novice mistake when applying Oratory1990 PEQ settings for my headphones (Ananda, HD598) by not including the pre-amp gain settings. Results were boomy and even distorted bass at times. Once I made the adjustment for pre-amp gain, I like the results.

 

[Matias]

Initially, I made a novice mistake when applying Oratory1990 PEQ settings for my headphones (Ananda, HD598) by not including the pre-amp gain settings. Results were boomy and even distorted bass at times. Once I made the adjustment for pre-amp gain, I like the results.

Indeed is an overlooked setting that can easily cause distortion, specially at those bass levels increases.

 

[jfree77]

I'm one of those weirdos who often enjoys more bass than Harman. Kinda depends on the song and the quality of the amp/cans, though.

I think Harman is just another data point to consider when you explore EQ on your own.

 

[Pretorious]

I've only done limited A/B listening between a Harman EQ'd headphone and a stock HD 600. But I haven't heard much of a difference when listening to various classical genres, be it orchestral, chamber or otherwise.

Even with some Bach organ works, with those low bass pipes, the HD 600 rumbles at the low-end, and the amplitude difference is negligible to me. Admittedly, I might need more time comparing the two headphones, as I focused solely on the bass, assuming that was where I would hear the greatest difference.

Given the range of frequencies, dynamics, instruments and recordings, I would have thought this music would reveal just what the Harman Curve does.