Diffuse Field -10db tilt is a horrible curve

[dasdoing]

It's mostly difficult because Harman OE is just so bananas bass heavy. Like, it's fun, it's just nowhere near what I've heard of decent in room responses - it's way subbier.

we can get used to FR imo.
my problem with the boost is that much stuff just sounds unnatural. the best showcase is a (spoken) deep male voice or a clean cello recording. In my case it mostly annoys me with deep percussive instruments, basically any stuff that is present in bass and midrange suffers. synth bass is OK though
I understand how it can sound natural to others though. we grow up with room boost, so it will sound right if you are not to used to natural sounds and/or only listen to electronic music

 

[GaryH]

Though now i won't really consider any 5128 measurement as relevant

Sensible.

until harman releases their curve for it

Sean Olive has said they're not likely to release a proper 5128 Harman headphone target. They have robust data backing up their GRAS target over a decade of research so there really isn't any need for it. Their quick extrapolated 5128 Harman target can be inferred from graphs shown in a presentation Sean gave:

 

[nerdemoji]

Sensible.

Sean Olive has said they're not likely to release a proper 5128 Harman headphone target. They have robust data backing up their GRAS target over a decade of research so there really isn't any need for it. Their quick extrapolated 5128 Harman target can be inferred from graphs shown in a presentation Sean gave:
View attachment 312208

i think the upcoming AES conference has a 5128 preference study or something

 

[CaufieldSkeptic]

Yeah, I also find the DF tilt curve very shouty, even at steeper tilts. I like the idea of adding a “Harman 2018-esque” adjustment but even that hasn’t been perfect for me :/

 

[nerdemoji]

@GaryH join the Sharur discord server. There are interesting people, some educated people there and some people who need your education. Your opinions also align with some on the server.

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

 

[markanini]

@GaryH join the Sharur discord server. There are interesting people, some educated people there and some people who need your education. Your opinions also align with some on the server.

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

This post was the comedic highlight of my week.

 

[GaryH]

@GaryH join the Sharur discord server. There are interesting people, some educated people there and some people who need your education. Your opinions also align with some on the server.

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

That's...a pass from me.

My advice: get off the discord servers, they're echo-chambers rife with pseudoscience, misinformation and fringe pet theories without direct valid evidence. This place isn't perfect, but it's the best audio forum there is where actual science and evidence hold sway. Stick around and you'll learn a lot.

 

[markanini]

Imagine dismissing Sharur for essentially cheering on a rival football league, and not the mountain of illogical and unproven claims.

 

[nerdemoji]

He’s honestly just a silly guy

 

[kysa]

@GaryH join the Sharur discord server. There are interesting people, some educated people there and some people who need your education. Your opinions also align with some on the server.

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

Don't worry, he's already stalking Sharur in secret

 

[ReaderZ]

That's...a pass from me.

View attachment 318598

My advice: get off the discord servers, they're echo-chambers rife with pseudoscience, misinformation and fringe pet theories without direct valid evidence. This place isn't perfect, but it's the best audio forum there is where actual science and evidence hold sway. Stick around and you'll learn a lot.

I don't give a shit about his political view or how delusional that is. This guy couldn't even wear a pair of headphones correctly, and he thinks he can review them...

 

[Resolve]

Don't worry, he's already stalking Sharur in secret

LOL no I am NOT sharur. Do not make that mistake. I participate in a far less repugnant cesspool thank you very much, despite what our stalker would have you believe.

 

[alumnicesar]

LOL no I am NOT sharur. Do not make that mistake. I participate in a far less repugnant cesspool thank you very much, despite what our stalker would have you believe.

any thoughts on switching your curve to maybe something like soundguy's: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-society-2023-conference.48497/post-1747115

or a harman compensated one? Though I think I remember in your 5128 switching video, you mentioned the upper treble is too smoothed out so it loses out on the higher "precision" of the 5128

 

[Resolve]

any thoughts on switching your curve to maybe something like soundguy's: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-society-2023-conference.48497/post-1747115

or a harman compensated one? Though I think I remember in your 5128 switching video, you mentioned the upper treble is too smoothed out so it loses out on the higher "precision" of the 5128

Nope. I think there's a general misunderstanding when it comes to what the 10dB tilt is. To be clear, DF + tilt is not a preference curve the way Harman is. If you want the best indication of how a headphone performs relative to a preference curve, Harman OE 2018 is still the best that exists.

DF + 10dB tilt primarily consists of two components. DF is used for the ear transfer function of the measurement rig, while the 10dB tilt is the bass to treble delta that's been found to be preferred in both headphones and in speakers across a fairly wide body of preference research (including Harman). This doesn't mean we should expect everyone to prefer a flat result based on that particular ear transfer function + 10dB. Individual preferences are bound to fall somewhere within that range, but I doubt it would be perfect for any single individual. Some may prefer a bass shelf instead of a slope for example, others may prefer less ear gain, hence why preference research is key. Things get into trouble when people start treating it as a "one true curve", or some sort of guarantee of neutrality, which its not. Rather, it is an indication of how something performs relative to the bass to treble delta that most people prefer.

Regardless, we're moving to showing the flat DF compensated FR against the preference bounds from the Harman research to better express this point (which is still 10dB for bass to treble delta but it'll make more sense when you see it). I'm working on the video for that as we speak.

 

[alumnicesar]

flat DF compensated FR against the preference bounds from the Harman research to better express this point (which is still 10dB for bass to treble delta but it'll make more sense when you see it). I'm working on the video for that as we speak.

nice, looking forward to it

 

[kysa]

LOL no I am NOT sharur. Do not make that mistake. I participate in a far less repugnant cesspool thank you very much, despite what our stalker would have you believe.

Ugh... I was alluding to his creepy behavior (i.e stalking people he doesn't like). You certainly don't look like Sharur

 

[alumnicesar]

https://x.com/oratory1990/status/1716023189103370371?s=46&t=tkkcgPO032AXpvNA6m_m5Q

-14db tilt gets a 100% Harman preference score

 

[dasdoing]

https://x.com/oratory1990/status/1716023189103370371?s=46&t=tkkcgPO032AXpvNA6m_m5Q

-14db tilt gets a 100% Harman preference score

the smoother bass boost actually makes more sense even, the Harman one masks 200Hz region.

but I would like to know the source of this diffuse field curve

 

[Koeitje]

The Harman Curve is decidedly not neutral. It's a preference curve.

Wasn't it initially created to mimic the in-room tonality of loudspeakers with high preference scores. Which tend to be loudspeakers that are flat in anechoic environments (in addition to having good directivity).

That said, preference in terms of the amount of bass and treble varies between people, just as long as its smooth.

 

[markanini]

but I would like to know the source of this diffuse field curve

This is a good question that too few are asking. If I understood the Twitter thread it's private data from GRAS engineers that's smoothed. Different from the ISO-DF and BK5128-DF usually referenced.

What I'm sure about is that people pushing tilted-DF will take it as a win, as they always do from a biased position.