I had an AT-ML150 a long time ago. Reviews said it was the cat’s pajamas. I found it thin and bright. I sold it along with the crap Music Hall table I put it on. People then said it needed a better turntable. I doubt it. On my next table I used an Ortofon X5-MC(FG70 stylus)that I did like. I also had an Ortofon 540 that I Iiked, also with an FG70. I sold that turntable when I got my VPI Scout that came with a Dynavector 20XH (micro-ridge stylus). I liked that cart too, only selling it when I wanted to try a LOMC. I got an Ortofon Rondo Blue (FG70) which I also liked and used for 14 years (not heavy use). I decided it was probably getting a bit worn and bought an AT VM740ML because of good reviews of it and its 540 sibling. I have tried to like the cartridge for 4 years. It reminds me of its ancestor the AT-ML150. Sizzly highs and spitty sibilants. On instrumental jazz it’s pretty good. When someone is singing, it varies with the singer, mic, and mastering. Good to pretty bad. You might say it’s misaligned. On both tables it’s been on. Well tracing error is going to be several degrees at points on a record even when it’s perfectly aligned. Total VTA adjustment is only a degree or two with most arms. If the cartridge is manufactured properly a level tonearm should do it. My DV20 didn’t do this. All of my FG70 based cartridges were fine. You might say I can fix it with EQ. I don’t thinks so. De-essers are not just filters. Maybe AT’s micro-line styli aren’t aligned well on the cantilever or maybe they are cheap because the quality isn’t very good, or maybe the high frequency shelf in the frequency response is the cause. Either way I am 2 for 2 in not liking AT MM carts with ML styli. Because my new TT has quick change headshells I tried a couple of other carts. An AT33EV sounds great except for a slight hum at higher volume. An AT Mono3/LP sounds great with my 50’s mono’s. A Sumiko Pearl sounds better than the 740ML to my ears even with its cheap bonded elliptical. To experiment I am going to try a AT7V stylus on the 740. I also have a Nagaoka MP-300 coming from Hong Kong because I have never tried a moving iron cartridge.
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Not loving my AT740MLx
- Thread starter rwortman
- Start date
What's the total capacitance in your system?
I mean, capacitance setting in the preamp+RCA cables+tonearm cable?
If you know the capacitance in the preamp and what is your RCA cable and length, maybe we could estimate it.
If the total capacitance goes higher than 200pF, you don't know what the 740 can do. It's a fantastic cartridge with a flat frequency response under 200pF. Ortofon likes high capacitance, that's the source of my question, maybe your system is prone to Ortofon.
I mean, capacitance setting in the preamp+RCA cables+tonearm cable?
If you know the capacitance in the preamp and what is your RCA cable and length, maybe we could estimate it.
If the total capacitance goes higher than 200pF, you don't know what the 740 can do. It's a fantastic cartridge with a flat frequency response under 200pF. Ortofon likes high capacitance, that's the source of my question, maybe your system is prone to Ortofon.
- Thread Starter
- #4
Preamp setting is 50pf, cables are 80pf measured with an LCR meter while connected to the turntable without a cartridge. So 130pf cables, preamp, arm and all.
2 of my 3 Ortofons were moving coil cartridges. The other non AT micro line cartridge I had was also a moving coil. So, although my sample is small, I haven’t heard a micro line MM that I liked. Looking at the plots posted here, I am not likely to try a new Ortofon MM with one either. Maybe I should buy or make some ultra low capacitance cables just to see. It seems like a 2.5 to 3 db hump right where the cartridge distortion is worst would be pretty audible.
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- Thread Starter
- #6
My preamp has adjustable capacitance on the MM input and resistance on the MC. I guess I could make cables with little resistors in the connectors. Then I would have to swap cables when I swapped carts. Maybe it’s all F/R that can be ameliorated with loading. Maybe I just don’t like the sound of AT’s micro-line stylus assemblies.
morillon
Major Contributor
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- Apr 19, 2022
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there have always been, to my knowledge, vinyl fans who did not appreciate these cartdriges... not considering the "measurements" aspect as here, but subjectively finding them too "thin" and sharp" in particular on what were for a long time the pride-the marketing of at...
the "ml" see formerly on berylium then boron.. (back to aluminum now)..
the irony is to see now the new hierarchy of the 700 series... ml < shibata < lc... maybe you should try a lc from at....
if the "sharp" aspect can be dug into the load... the "lean" aspect...is more annoying
(the other irony is that part of the AT A relaunch was the AT33 ANV, ...an elliptical ( not ""thin""), yes yes, which has remained in EV now.... then the revival of vinyl..
3rd irony...
what was one of the great interests of AT was the possibility of varying the size on a type of body the "100" series 120 125 130 140 15* 160...
to now have managed to slip this approach onto this body which was the basic cartdrige- "modest"""" at-95"... they were very strong in.at ;-)... and the call for air on vinyl has the rest... the price drift has overvalued the entry level)
;-)
maybe you should try a lc..see for fun..a simple diam "modest" of at120e or 125lc (new generation?) on your "740" body...
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You could make loading plugs instead of complete cables - easier to swap out and pretty cheap to make. RCA T-shape splitter plus a dummy plug with the resistor soldered in it.
Are you sure it’s really 50pF? A lot get this wrong by specifying with only the value of the additional shunt capacitor.
From the perspective of the stylus alone, going to a larger minor radius will only have an affect at the inner grooves, discounting affects of wear.
And parasitic, and the input device, etc.
- Thread Starter
- #13
My preamp is a McIntosh C49. Capacitance is adjusted via the UI. Not sure about trying to measure it with my LCR meter when it’s on. I would hope their engineers know what the actual capacitance is on the input and the settings are real. I am going to try a 2 x 7 “special elliptical’ on my 740 body. The current LC that fits it is over $500. Looking over the data in the cartridge measurement section, it’s not clear that advanced profiles result in lower distortion. The 2M Black isn’t much better than a bonded elliptical Red in that department.
I did take a good look at the stylus of my 740 with the 180x stereo microscope I recently purchased. It was dirty and took several tries to get it reasonably clean. Maybe those skinny little micro ridges act like spatulas for scraping stuff out of the groove.
I did take a good look at the stylus of my 740 with the 180x stereo microscope I recently purchased. It was dirty and took several tries to get it reasonably clean. Maybe those skinny little micro ridges act like spatulas for scraping stuff out of the groove.
Don’t forget test record sweep tracks are outer grooves. Unless someone has specific records and does those measurements, which pretty much no one does.
DSJR
Major Contributor
The Lowbeats test didn't show quite that top peak.
www.lowbeats.de
Mind you, the suckout looks more pronounced than the mechanically similar 540 model.
Forgive me, but vinyl is so soft sounding with so many pickups, I don't mind a little sparkle *as long as the phono stage can take it!!!* Looking at the OP, I'm wondering how overload capable the phono stage is up top. I mean, I love the 2M Bronze and when I sold Rega, the Goldring 1042 (which is spiteful quite often in other tonearms I subsequently discovered), but it's hardly reticent up top and not quite as 'safe-sounding' as my previous-generation Super OM30. I have a 6dB peaky AT120E which I like very much - no surface noise or splattery issues here despite the sparkle it has...
Hmm, I wonder if the OP might like the better Sumiko MM models, the restyled ones at and around $/£300? Th ebasic 'Pearl' model is seamless in its general response downtilt, but the restyled 'better tipped' versions may refine this balance without adding spitch or noise...
Test Audio-Technica VM740ML: die noble Art zu Hören - LowBeats
Innerhalb unser Familienübersicht ist das Audio-Technica VM740ML das größte und mit knapp 330 Euro t
www.lowbeats.de
Mind you, the suckout looks more pronounced than the mechanically similar 540 model.
Forgive me, but vinyl is so soft sounding with so many pickups, I don't mind a little sparkle *as long as the phono stage can take it!!!* Looking at the OP, I'm wondering how overload capable the phono stage is up top. I mean, I love the 2M Bronze and when I sold Rega, the Goldring 1042 (which is spiteful quite often in other tonearms I subsequently discovered), but it's hardly reticent up top and not quite as 'safe-sounding' as my previous-generation Super OM30. I have a 6dB peaky AT120E which I like very much - no surface noise or splattery issues here despite the sparkle it has...
Hmm, I wonder if the OP might like the better Sumiko MM models, the restyled ones at and around $/£300? Th ebasic 'Pearl' model is seamless in its general response downtilt, but the restyled 'better tipped' versions may refine this balance without adding spitch or noise...
Just a reminder, in terms of the order of magnitude of the variations in frequency response, the "resonances" rule the day... as long as the side radius of the needle is sufficient to trace the high frequencies (which all line contact designs are, and the better elipticals are too) - then the F/R will be a simple sum of the electrical response (and its resonance!) and the mechanical cantilever response, driven by its mechanical resonance.
Sellers tend to focus on the needle profile - mostly because they can easily sell differing profiles, whereas most of them have very little control over the cantilevers.
So rule #1 - the cantilever has the biggest impact (regardless of needle type or whether it is MM/MC)
and rule #2 - the loading adjusts the electrical response - if you are running MM ! - so be ready/willing to adjust both R & C loading if you are aiming for an approximation of a flat F/R
Sellers tend to focus on the needle profile - mostly because they can easily sell differing profiles, whereas most of them have very little control over the cantilevers.
So rule #1 - the cantilever has the biggest impact (regardless of needle type or whether it is MM/MC)
and rule #2 - the loading adjusts the electrical response - if you are running MM ! - so be ready/willing to adjust both R & C loading if you are aiming for an approximation of a flat F/R
- Thread Starter
- #17
Here the the MM loading circuit. The settings are 50 to 800pf in 50pf increments. So it looks like the 50pf setting must be with the fixed cap in circuit and whatever other parasitic resistances are in the circuit.
- Thread Starter
- #18
The McIntosh spec sheet says maximum input at the MM terminals is 80mv. Seems like plenty of margin.
- Thread Starter
- #19
It seems that the designers at Nagaoka agree, putting boron cantilevers with elliptical diamonds on cartridges at a price that gets you an “advanced” stylus from other brands, prompting complaints from some that they are too expensive for their styli.
