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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

Rate this product:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 96 31.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 116 37.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 63 20.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 31 10.1%

  • Total voters
    306

dlaloum

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Do the RZ50 and DRX 8.4 have the same amps/power supply and same protection circuit?
[Very good info you don’t have issue with your DRX 8.4]
The DRX8.4 and RZ70 have much much more substantial power supplies and amps - Knowing Onkyo's engineers, they probably have the same protection circuit in there, but in reality I have not heard of anyone triggering the protection circuit in actual usage - and the flagship models will have far higher current limits than the mass market models.

I would expect the flagships to handle Gallo speakers without any issues. (although given I have not seen proper bench tests of these, it remains a crapshoot!)
Previous generation flagship models (DTR70.4/NR3100) handled Gallo speakers just fine.
 

ban25

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Based on my trials, I would suspect that the RZ70/Integra 8.4 would handle these speakers fine, but I doubt the RZ50 will.
Here's the advice I would give @Abstracted . Try it with just the RZ50 first. If you have a problem that you think an external amp might fix, then consider something like the Fosi V3 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fosi-audio-v3-amplifier-review.45757/) or anything else you prefer, just so long as it is *not* the Topping PA5 or PA5 II, which has over 120 documented failures on this forum alone due to the factory's misguided encapsulation and has even prompted the community to produce their own fixed board (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ix-d01-module-replacement-for-everyone.44219/).
 

dlaloum

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Do the RZ50 and DRX 8.4 have the same amps/power supply and same protection circuit?
[Very good info you don’t have issue with your DRX 8.4]
The DRX8.4 and RZ70 have much much more substantial power supplies and amps - Knowing Onkyo's engineers, they probably have the same protection circuit in there, but in reality I have not heard of anyone triggering the protection circuit in actual usage - and the flagship models will have far higher current limits than the mass market models.

I would expect the flagships to handle Gallo speakers without any issues. (although given I have not seen proper bench tests of these, it remains a crapshoot!)
Previous generation flagship models (DTR70.4/RZ3100) handled Gallo speakers just fine.
 

ban25

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The DRX8.4 and RZ70 have much much more substantial power supplies and amps - Knowing Onkyo's engineers, they probably have the same protection circuit in there, but in reality I have not heard of anyone triggering the protection circuit in actual usage - and the flagship models will have far higher current limits than the mass market models.

I would expect the flagships to handle Gallo speakers without any issues. (although given I have not seen proper bench tests of these, it remains a crapshoot!)
Previous generation flagship models (DTR70.4/NR3100) handled Gallo speakers just fine.
The hottest I have ever managed to get the DRX-8.4 is 46C while watching the extended edition of LOTR Fellowship of the Ring at reference volume (0dB) for the entire 3 hours and 48 minutes. Fan speed was low and protection mode was not engaged. Typical is 28C at maybe -25 dB.
 

dlaloum

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The hottest I have ever managed to get the DRX-8.4 is 46C while watching the extended edition of LOTR Fellowship of the Ring at reference volume (0dB) for the entire 3 hours and 48 minutes. Fan speed was low and protection mode was not engaged. Typical is 28C at maybe -25 dB.
Current generation runs wonderfully cool - bodes well for longevity!
 

Abstracted

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Using the 3.4 in combination with either the Quad 606 or Crown XLS2500, had it sounding well nigh identical to the 876/70.4 configuration.
I've heard mixed reviews about the Crown XLS series, and have considered them in the past.


amps that can drive low impedance loads without concern
Can a Fosi V3 do that?
(I'm very intrigued by the upcoming V3 with PFFB by the way.)

Are there any others that can can drive low impedance loads, have a high SINAD, and are less than $300?
 
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Theetjuh

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The hottest I have ever managed to get the DRX-8.4 is 46C while watching the extended edition of LOTR Fellowship of the Ring at reference volume (0dB) for the entire 3 hours and 48 minutes. Fan speed was low and protection mode was not engaged. Typical is 28C at maybe -25 dB.
Damn ... I normally run my RZ70 at -40 dB ... couldn't really think about reference for that long :D
Mine is a quite large closed environment with a bit of ventilation and it runs at 31 °C.
 

ban25

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Damn ... I normally run my RZ70 at -40 dB ... couldn't really think about reference for that long :D
Mine is a quite large closed environment with a bit of ventilation and it runs at 31 °C.
I can't say I recommend doing it...after that movie I felt like I was walking out of a rock concert...
 

SlaughterX

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Well, my RZ50 died last week (while fast forwarding through an episode of Lost trying to find the spot we fell asleep on the previous night). Sound completely went out though everything powers on and works, including the OSD. I tried checking all connections, power cycling (actually left it unplugged over night)... even completely disconnected it and tried another set of speakers and still nothing. Firmware was up to date, tried a factory reset... I am sure the internal amp is dead. Contacted Onkyo and they directed me to a repair center in Springfield, MO. Contacted them and they were supposed to e-mail details sending it to them but I still haven't got an e-mail. Hopefully this ends up being a smooth process... but I am glad that I went ahead and jumped on the Denon 6700 when it was on sale for more than half off... though it has its own set of issues (it runs hot AF... plus I keep getting random auto drop outs on my PC... which never happened with my RZ50).
 

Philbo King

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2 8K THX Certified AV Receiver. It was purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $1,399.
View attachment 186165
Looks like all AVR companies are trying to break the mold of just dual rotary controls to something different. While I appreciate the additional buttons and knobs here, they are impossible to see in the dark as far as labels. Here is the back panel:

View attachment 186167
I appreciated the quick start-up and the high resolution of the on-screen display. It was also nice of it to tell me at the end of setup that there was a new firmware. What I didn't appreciate was it not recognizing my hardwired Ethernet cable requiring a second try even though I had it plugged it a while back. Update was slow which I could tolerate but not finishing with "Update Complete" (or something like it) and then sitting there non-functional! You had to power cycle it to get it to work.

The distinguishing aspect of this AVR is adoption of Dirac by a mass market company like Onkyo in their AVR. Dirac room EQ should perform far better than simpler scheme in the AVR (although I have not tested either in this instance). There is a nice app to control it all as well so you don't need a computer if you don't want to have one (and can use AVR's own mic).

Note: the follow set of measurements are expanded from my normal set which is already quite extensive for AVRs. If you are new to these reviews, don't be taken back. Most of them are for the diehard measurement folks in the forum. :) I will summarize everything in the conclusion section.

Onkyo TX-RZ50 DAC Measurements
As usual I start with the important bit which is how well the AVR converts digital audio samples to analog. Pure mode was selected for all the measurements (see later in the review on effect of this setting). Let's start with S/PDIF:

View attachment 186172

As usual I set the volume control such that we get 2 volt output which required setting it to 84.5. Unit displays "Reference" at 82 by the way but at that level, you won't be able to drive all amplifiers to their full power rating. Let's now switch to HDMI:


View attachment 186173

General performance is the same but now we have symmetrical spikes around our main tone which indicates low frequency jitter component. This is unfortunate. Putting SINAD which is the relative sum of noise and distortion in context we get slightly above average rating:

View attachment 186174

Since the unit can output more than 2 volts, let's see the full range of output vs performance:

View attachment 186177
Good to see you have headroom up to 3.5 volt if you need it to drive a low gain amplifier.

Measuring dynamic range we get:
View attachment 186175

Multitone test shows jitter components we saw in the dashboard which I ignored for my distortion-free range computation:
View attachment 186178

Oddly when I ran my specific jitter test, it was S/PDIF which fell behind HDMI:

View attachment 186179

Objectively neither performance is proper but from audibility point of view, spikes are low enough as to not matter.

Linearity was "good enough" for the class:

View attachment 186180

I was pleasantly surprised to see a choice of filters although you only have a choice of two (and "auto" which seems to set to Sharp):

View attachment 186181

Notice the typical roll off in the audible band with slow filter so my choice would be the sharp one. The filter choice naturally makes a difference in our THD+N versus frequency:

View attachment 186183

As you see the slow filter does better but I think that is because it is attenuating the in-band response, reducing the noise and power of harmonics. Either way though, this is not anything to write home about.

While we are here, let's see the effect of Pure mode:

View attachment 186184

Odd to see that low frequency rise in distortion.

Base Management and Pure Mode Investigation
These AVRs are opaque when it comes to what they do when they activate their digital processing and accompanying resampling. So I decided to investigate with frequency response measurement using 192 kHz sampling. This rate is usually outside of unit's internal processing rate so if there is some, we will see its effect. Let's see what happens when we turn Pure mode on and off:

View attachment 186185

It is clear that turning ON the Pure mode disables all internal resampling giving us almost full bandwidth of 96 kHz which we would expect. Turn Pure mode off and response gets truncated sharply. My guess is that internal sample rate is 44.1 or likely 48 kHz.

I then configured an 80 Hz high-pass filter for the fronts and measured its effect:

View attachment 186186

As soon as you enable bass management, resampling is forced on you (blue curve). This is a shame as bass processing should be doable at higher sample rate. I guess the pipeline is all or nothing when it comes to processing. Fortunately you have the option of using Pure mode but that defeats bass management so no bookshelf speaker may apply. You have to use full range speakers.

Notice that this run in Pure mode (red and green) has a spike. This would come and go depending on settings of the frequency response sweep (green spike). It may be a bug or ringing of the resampling filter. Onkyo should investigate and fix this. Fortunately it is at 60 kHz so not an audible concern but maybe it pushes some external amp into oscillation.

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Amplifier Measurements
My goal here is to figure out how good the internal amplifier is relative to an external one. This is hard to do as we have to tease out the transparency level of various ways of feeding the amplifier. Let's start with analog input by adjusting our gain to be 29 dB:

View attachment 186188

If you don't use the Pure mode -- which is probably how most of you use it -- you will lose performance:

View attachment 186189

Sadly that is in the form of rising noise floor. Going with the better of the two, the ranking is not great and well below competition:


View attachment 186190

Some of you have been looking at using external DACs as a way to improve performance of these AV Products. There, you would be feeding the amplifier up to 2 volts in unbalanced mode so I decided to test that condition. To get to the same 5 watt output, I cranked the volume down until I achieved that output:


View attachment 186191

Noise floor goes down enough to buy us 3 dB more SINAD. Let's do the same with HDMI input, i.e. using internal DAC:


View attachment 186192

So you could do better with external DAC but it is likely not worth the hassle as the amp itself doesn't have much more to give.

Crosstalk was below average:
View attachment 186193

In Pure mode, frequency response is extended and nice:
View attachment 186194

And here is our multitone test:

View attachment 186195

Disappointing.

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Power Amplifier Testing
This testing cost me anther hour of sleep (went to bed near 4:00 am!). I started with measuring 4 ohm power as I usually do and got ridiculously low level of output before clipping. I checked all the settings, set the amp to 6 vs 4 ohm and back, power save mode off, etc. but nothing would fix it. On a hunch, I disconnected the power cable, waited a bit and powered the unit back on. I got full power twice but then it limited:


View attachment 186197

Clearly there is some monitoring going on internally causing the amplifier to go into ECO/power limiting mode. With 8 ohm load, I didn't see this problem:
View attachment 186198

Given that vast majority of speakers today are 4 ohm or even lower, this is a serious problem. I could understand it if the amp was cooking but it was quite cool running with the upper fan off. Traditionally this mode would be triggered if you set the amplifier to 4 ohm mode but per above, this did not have an effect here.

Given this problem I could not run my max and peak power. But did run my frequency sweeps post a power cable removal:
View attachment 186199

Notice how it pulled power back half way through the test. I am hoping this is microprocessor controlled so can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. This is a showstopper bug as far as I am concerned.

Conclusions

The inclusion of proper Room EQ in mid-priced AVRs is major news indeed. Alas, my job here is to characterize the performance of the platform itself and the news there is not good. The amplifier has serious power limiting "feature" and even without it, it is not competitive with other products out there. Company can and should do better than this. I am confident a clean up pass with measurements can produce a better product. For too long review sites have done such a cursory job here as to allow these practices to continue. Hopefully that era is behind us. I know a number of companies are taking this domain seriously like the companies did in 1970s. So if Onkyo doesn't get with the program, it will fall behind.

The morass of pipeline processing also needs documentation and this is a message for the entire industry. Don't leave the customer in the dark and lead to dissatisfaction when they read an analysis like mine. Up the processing capability and make it a feature to perform all the functions at the native sample rate of the content. I think people will pay a few hundred dollars more to get this.

Anyway, I can't recommend the Onkyo TX-RZ50. If they fix the power handling issue, they may then get a marginal recommendation from me.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Wow, I'm impressed that it powered up. I've never encountered an Onkyo that would turn on, though admittedly I avoided them after the first one.
 

Abstracted

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Here's the advice I would give @Abstracted . Try it with just the RZ50 first. If you have a problem that you think an external amp might fix, then consider something like the Fosi V3 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fosi-audio-v3-amplifier-review.45757/) or anything else you prefer, just so long as it is *not* the Topping PA5 or PA5 II, which has over 120 documented failures on this forum alone due to the factory's misguided encapsulation and has even prompted the community to produce their own fixed board (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ix-d01-module-replacement-for-everyone.44219/).

The Fosi V3 isn't rated for 2 ohms. But I emailed Fosi about the ZA3 and they said that it can drive 2 ohms, in stereo and mono, but they're unable to give me a power output rating.

The Aiyima AO7 Max can drive 2 ohms in mono (210 W/ch).

So I picked up two 'em, plus one of these to add 12V trigger capability:

But honestly I'm feeling like I've cheaped-out here. Shouldn't I just spend $300 for a used AB amp instead for better SQ? Or get a used Crown as @dlaloum suggested?
 
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ban25

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The Fosi V3 isn't rated for 2 ohms. But I emailed Fosi about the ZA3 and they said that it can drive 2 ohms, in stereo and mono, but they're unable to give me a power output rating.

The Aiyima AO7 Max can drive 2 ohms in mono (210 W/ch).

So I picked up two 'em, plus one of these to add 12V trigger capability:

But honestly I'm feeling like I've cheaped-out here. Shouldn't I just spend $300 for a used AB amp instead for better SQ? Or get a used Crown as @dlaloum suggested?
They won't say it's rated for 2R because they don't want somebody to put a static 2R dummy load on there and melt it down. Your speakers only dip into that range at a frequency which is beyond what adult humans can hear!

Don't worry about it. Enjoy your system!
 

dlaloum

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They won't say it's rated for 2R because they don't want somebody to put a static 2R dummy load on there and melt it down. Your speakers only dip into that range at a frequency which is beyond what adult humans can hear!

Don't worry about it. Enjoy your system!
Yep - If it is sounding good - then move on.... (nothing to see here...)
 

peng

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The Fosi V3 isn't rated for 2 ohms. But I emailed Fosi about the ZA3 and they said that it can drive 2 ohms, in stereo and mono, but they're unable to give me a power output rating.

The Aiyima AO7 Max can drive 2 ohms in mono (210 W/ch).

So I picked up two 'em, plus one of these to add 12V trigger capability:

But honestly I'm feeling like I've cheaped-out here. Shouldn't I just spend $300 for a used AB amp instead for better SQ? Or get a used Crown as @dlaloum suggested?
As others said, if it sounds good, don't worry about it, though I would add that you could pay attention to check that the unit is not overheating.
In theory, if the unit is truly rated for 60 W 8 ohms, then it could have been rated for 15 W 2 ohms with no issues, as long as they don't have a protection scheme that actually sense/calculate impedance and then take action when impedance drop below a certain value. I doubt the cheap Fosi amp has such sophisticated protection scheme. If it just sense current, then the value I use based on theory will stand.

Again, that's in theory, based on Ohm's law and the power formula, in practice, if the amp is well designed (yeah well designed is not well defined unfortunately), then it will likely give you a little more output at 4 ohm than 8 ohm, some could even approach "double down", on very short duration basis. For 2 ohm though, don't expect any amp (okay there are always exceptions, that some could do it) that could approach "doubling down" into 2 ohms from 4 ohms load, the current would simply get too high for the output devices if not the power supplies.
 

Abstracted

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dlaloum

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Unfortunately it's only for the RZ70. Not the RZ50.
Yep - it cannot be done unless the hardware is there inside the box - the firmware activates the feature - but the lower end models (RZ50 and down) simply don't have that hardware.
 

DACs_Lover

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I am planning to buy a new AVR. Does anyone know the measurement of the Z70?
Does it have the same pattern as Z50's?
Thank you.
 

EWL5

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I am planning to buy a new AVR. Does anyone know the measurement of the Z70?
Does it have the same pattern as Z50's?
Thank you.
I don't think the RZ70 has been measured on ASR yet. Generally, I think RZ70 owners have been happy and haven't heard as many complaints (or returns) as the RZ50.
 

dlaloum

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I am planning to buy a new AVR. Does anyone know the measurement of the Z70?
Does it have the same pattern as Z50's?
Thank you.
I have yet to see a full test done on the RZ70 (or its siblings) - although apparently there was one on a German language magazine.
 

EWL5

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Can anyone using DL on their RZ50 confirm that they don't have "Bass Management" as shown in the yellow rectangle in the pic below?

BassManage.jpg
 
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