Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[Kumabear]

My interpretation...

The key issues are:

1) Power amp goes into nanny/self protection mode far too easily - so the 120W/ch amp ends up as a 40W/ch amp. An issue with any 4ohm or difficult to drive speakers. (this has been an ongoing issue with the house of Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer)
2) The pre-amp / processor is OK - mid market stats - not fantastic on SINAD/THD+N, but not shameful either
3) Pre-Out distortion seems to happen when HDMI inputs are set to max volume - dropping it down to 90 sorts it out... worthwhile knowing! - but shouldn't be happening (should be sortable with a firmware update?)
4) Jitter on HDMI inputs (and on coax?!) ... thought this was sorted out years ago, but it is still there - on the other hand it is at a very low level - not likely to be audible.
5) Amp output quality is mid-low market... 77db SINAD

Positives:

1) Good Dynamic range (17.5bit+)
2) Good SINAD / THD+N if not exceptional - 97db, 0.0015% - Pre-amp / processor
3) Good clean Pre out V - going out to 3.5V - should drive almost any power amps easily

Basically this should be quite a good Pre-Pro... with internal amps used to drive Surround/height channels only
Good traditional do everything AVR only for those who have true 8ohm speakers

This was basically my understanding of this also.

for the price I have paid I am extremely happy, if you look at it as a pure pre-pro with DIRAC and bonus surround + atmos amps its still a steal, some of the dedicated Pre-Pro's out there have very marginally better or even far worse performance from their pre-outs.

I plan to expand my system to include a 3-channel Buckeye NcoreX / Purifi for the LCR power.

I paid $2024 AUD (that includes our taxes and such), a Denon X4800H here is $4000...

I am confident that an RZ50 hooked up to a Buckeye 3-Channel NcoreX500 / Purifi for the LCR is a far better performer for the same price as that Denon, and the preouts perform the same.

Lucky my atmos height speakers are 8-ohm, and my rear surround are 6 ohm measured to not go below 5.5ohm.

 

[peng]

This was basically my understanding of this also.

for the price I have paid I am extremely happy, if you look at it as a pure pre-pro with DIRAC and bonus surround + atmos amps its still a steal, some of the dedicated Pre-Pro's out there have very marginally better or even far worse performance from their pre-outs.

I plan to expand my system to include a 3-channel Buckeye NcoreX / Purifi for the LCR power.

I paid $2024 AUD (that includes our taxes and such), a Denon X4800H here is $4000...

I am confident that an RZ50 hooked up to a Buckeye 3-Channel NcoreX500 / Purifi for the LCR is a far better performer for the same price as that Denon, and the preouts perform the same.

Lucky my atmos height speakers are 8-ohm, and my rear surround are 6 ohm measured to not go below 5.5ohm.

AUD4,000 for the 4800 is ridiculous, smart shoppers choosing different brand av devices should always check price differences in different parts of the world. We already know Denon and Marantz are priced very close between comparison models, but in the US and Canada, Marantz price is ridiculously high, now we know in Australia, Onkyo has the best deal, relative to Denon and Marantz. So, I think you are right, stick with the RZ50, add a 3 channel Hypex or Purifi and you will be way ahead of the game.

Aside from buckeye's, I wonder if pricing for the well reviewed/measured Audiophonic amps are competitive too:

Search - Audiophonics

Search page

www.audiophonics.fr

Audiophonics HPA-S400ET Review (Stereo Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET. It was sent to me by the company after member request and costs 1 490,00 € (US $1,638). I must say this is one of the best packaging of class D amplifiers (Purifi in this case) that I have seen! It is slick and has...

www.audiosciencereview.com

They typically include RCA connections, though there is no issue using RCA to XLR cables with the buckeye amps as long as you buy the ones that are wired to Hypex's recommendations such as the following:

March Audio (in Australia, I think...)

XLR-to-RCA Cables

This is my first actual thread-starting post. I haunt these precincts mainly for what I can learn, and occasionally pipe up about a topic here and there. I have nothing like the technical knowledge, let alone understanding, of most here. I do thank you for everything you've taught me! But I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

or go with the much cheaper Monoprice, or GhantAudio's.

 

[dlaloum]

With regards to Aus pricing, I managed to negotiate the price to just under AU$1700 for the Integra DRX 3.4 - which made it cheaper than the RZ50, while still providing Dirac, full pre-out, and the number of channels I required.

So if you don't need the RZ50's additional channels, or additional power (which is very slight in any case) - there is the possibility of negotiating a deal with a retailer on the step down, but moving to Integra rather than Onkyo - so that you have full pre-outs (the NR7100 and LX305 don't have full pre-outs).

The RZ50 is a great deal right now with bargains out there at AU$2000, and had it been at that price when I was shopping a year ago, I might have stepped up from the 3.4 (sure the additional is redundant to my needs but... more... for not too much $ more...)

On the other hand, I always planned for the 3.4 to be an interrim step while I wait to see what happens in the Onkyo flagship space... and that has yet to play out - will the RZ70 gets Dirac-ART, what about the RZ90? - and once they have been out in the market for a while, where will street price settle...?

 

[Kumabear]

AUD4,000 for the 4800 is ridiculous, smart shoppers choosing different brand av devices should always check price differences in different parts of the world. We already know Denon and Marantz are priced very close between comparison models, but in the US and Canada, Marantz price is ridiculously high, now we know in Australia, Onkyo has the best deal, relative to Denon and Marantz. So, I think you are right, stick with the RZ50, add a 3 channel Hypex or Purifi and you will be way ahead of the game.

Aside from buckeye's, I wonder if pricing for the well reviewed/measured Audiophonic amps are competitive too:

Search - Audiophonics

Search page

www.audiophonics.fr

Audiophonics HPA-S400ET Review (Stereo Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET. It was sent to me by the company after member request and costs 1 490,00 € (US $1,638). I must say this is one of the best packaging of class D amplifiers (Purifi in this case) that I have seen! It is slick and has...

www.audiosciencereview.com

They typically include RCA connections, though there is no issue using RCA to XLR cables with the buckeye amps as long as you buy the ones that are wired to Hypex's recommendations such as the following:

March Audio (in Australia, I think...)

XLR-to-RCA Cables

This is my first actual thread-starting post. I haunt these precincts mainly for what I can learn, and occasionally pipe up about a topic here and there. I have nothing like the technical knowledge, let alone understanding, of most here. I do thank you for everything you've taught me! But I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

or go with the much cheaper Monoprice, or GhantAudio's.

The RCA connectors wont be an issue, I actually have a MiniDSP Flex Digi + 2x topping E50's which I use for 2 channel listening.

Its a bit hard to explain but hopefully this makes sense, I intend to add a pair of topping L70's between this 2-channel system, the RZ50 and whatever power amp i end up with to act as essentially gain control with preset recall and input switching as well as it will bring in LCR + Sub RCA's from the RZ50, then output that signal as Balanced XLR to the power amps and subwoofer.

I work for a control 4 dealer as a tech, so at the end of this the intention is press "watch" or "Listen" button on wall or phone and all the relevant equipment will power itself up, select the correct inputs / outputs, recall the right preset on the L70's with the right gain, output routing and volume for balanced or RCA input depending on what I am doing, still a while away from that but that is the end game.

 

[Kallel]

A lot of this stuff went over my head.

So I have a question about using the rz50 with 4 ohm speakers.

In real world situation where we are listing at -15 to -20 would this likely trip the avr and send it into only producing the 30w/ ch that has been mentioned in this thread?

Or is that only once it reached reference level sound?

I'm tossing up between this avr at $2100 and an anthem mrx740 at $3500 and am struggling to see the double the price benefit of the anthem.

Also, if it makes a difference I'm running a 3ch amc power amp for my lcr, it's rated at 240w/ch into 4 ohms. Hopefully that's a correct rating.

Thanks

 

[GabrielPhoto]

A lot of this stuff went over my head.

So I have a question about using the rz50 with 4 ohm speakers.

In real world situation where we are listing at -15 to -20 would this likely trip the avr and send it into only producing the 30w/ ch that has been mentioned in this thread?

Or is that only once it reached reference level sound?

I'm tossing up between this avr at $2100 and an anthem mrx740 at $3500 and am struggling to see the double the price benefit of the anthem.

Also, if it makes a difference I'm running a 3ch amc power amp for my lcr, it's rated at 240w/ch into 4 ohms. Hopefully that's a correct rating.

Thanks

For that price difference you could just grab a 3 or 5 channel amp if you have issues with the 4ohms.

 

[hlevinson]

A lot of this stuff went over my head.

So I have a question about using the rz50 with 4 ohm speakers.

In real world situation where we are listing at -15 to -20 would this likely trip the avr and send it into only producing the 30w/ ch that has been mentioned in this thread?

Or is that only once it reached reference level sound?

I'm tossing up between this avr at $2100 and an anthem mrx740 at $3500 and am struggling to see the double the price benefit of the anthem.

Also, if it makes a difference I'm running a 3ch amc power amp for my lcr, it's rated at 240w/ch into 4 ohms. Hopefully that's a correct rating.

Thanks

you should be fine with the RZ50 and since you have an external amp that takes a big load off the AVR.

 

[ban25]

A lot of this stuff went over my head.

So I have a question about using the rz50 with 4 ohm speakers.

In real world situation where we are listing at -15 to -20 would this likely trip the avr and send it into only producing the 30w/ ch that has been mentioned in this thread?

Or is that only once it reached reference level sound?

I'm tossing up between this avr at $2100 and an anthem mrx740 at $3500 and am struggling to see the double the price benefit of the anthem.

Also, if it makes a difference I'm running a 3ch amc power amp for my lcr, it's rated at 240w/ch into 4 ohms. Hopefully that's a correct rating.

Thanks

No you would not be able to trip protection mode just listening to regular content, particularly at levels well below reference.

 

[dlaloum]

A lot of this stuff went over my head.

So I have a question about using the rz50 with 4 ohm speakers.

In real world situation where we are listing at -15 to -20 would this likely trip the avr and send it into only producing the 30w/ ch that has been mentioned in this thread?

Or is that only once it reached reference level sound?

I'm tossing up between this avr at $2100 and an anthem mrx740 at $3500 and am struggling to see the double the price benefit of the anthem.

Also, if it makes a difference I'm running a 3ch amc power amp for my lcr, it's rated at 240w/ch into 4 ohms. Hopefully that's a correct rating.

Thanks

With 86db/wm efficient speakers, my average continuous power into the speakers is 5W (for listening levels around 75db at MLP) - with very very rare peaks reaching no higher than 16W. (in a large open living space kitchen/dining/lounge)

In most cases "power" is not the issue - but current may be.
I run 4 ohm speakers with minimum impedance at 1.6ohm - they don't sound great using the AVR alone - adding a front L&R power amp, leaves the AVR with enough power to drive all the other channels in my 5.1.4 setup.

You have a similar situation with an external amp runing LCR - you will be fine.

 

[Kallel]

With 86db/wm efficient speakers, my average continuous power into the speakers is 5W (for listening levels around 75db at MLP) - with very very rare peaks reaching no higher than 16W. (in a large open living space kitchen/dining/lounge)

In most cases "power" is not the issue - but current may be.
I run 4 ohm speakers with minimum impedance at 1.6ohm - they don't sound great using the AVR alone - adding a front L&R power amp, leaves the AVR with enough power to drive all the other channels in my 5.1.4 setup.

You have a similar situation with an external amp runing LCR - you will be fine.

I'm running m&k s150 lcr, and m&k surrounds.

Taking power or current out of it, is there any other reason the anthem mrx740 would be worth almost double the rz50?

Thanks

 

[dlaloum]

I'm running m&k s150 lcr, and m&k surrounds.

Taking power or current out of it, is there any other reason the anthem mrx740 would be worth almost double the rz50?

Thanks

Onkyo is a mass market company - I believe they produce far larger volumes than does Anthem... this is the main key to why Onkyo have been one of the best Value AVR makers for several decades now.

Anthem are more of a boutique company... great gear, but the value equation is tilted by the manufacturing circumstances.

When you go up the range in Onkyo to RZ70... then the manufacturing equations are more equal with competitors like Anthem... they are made in much smaller volumes!

 

[Kallel]

Onkyo is a mass market company - I believe they produce far larger volumes than does Anthem... this is the main key to why Onkyo have been one of the best Value AVR makers for several decades now.

Anthem are more of a boutique company... great gear, but the value equation is tilted by the manufacturing circumstances.

When you go up the range in Onkyo to RZ70... then the manufacturing equations are more equal with competitors like Anthem... they are made in much smaller volumes!

Interesting thanks.

I assume there is probably some higher quality internal components in the anthem.

But whether or not they make a real world difference is where I'm unsure of. Especially given the price difference.

 

[dlaloum]

Interesting thanks.

I assume there is probably some higher quality internal components in the anthem.

But whether or not they make a real world difference is where I'm unsure of. Especially given the price difference.

AmirM has reviewed several Anthem components, AVM60, AVM70, MRX1120, MRX520...

My own conclusion is that in raw performance terms, there is nothing there that would be expected to make an audible difference.

The biggest audible difference would be the competition between Dirac Vs ARC...

I shortlisted Anthem when I needed a new AVR 2 years ago... alongside Denon and Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer - I ended up opting for an Integra DRX 3.4 ( which I have matched with some external power amps that I already owned ) - the Anthem alternative would have cost me substantially more, and I wanted to try out Dirac... very happy with the result.

 

[Kallel]

AmirM has reviewed several Anthem components, AVM60, AVM70, MRX1120, MRX520...

My own conclusion is that in raw performance terms, there is nothing there that would be expected to make an audible difference.

The biggest audible difference would be the competition between Dirac Vs ARC...

I shortlisted Anthem when I needed a new AVR 2 years ago... alongside Denon and Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer - I ended up opting for an Integra DRX 3.4 ( which I have matched with some external power amps that I already owned ) - the Anthem alternative would have cost me substantially more, and I wanted to try out Dirac... very happy with the result.

Thanks again.

Curious why you went the integra over say 3800 or rz50?

 

[peng]

Interesting thanks.

I assume there is probably some higher quality internal components in the anthem.

But whether or not they make a real world difference is where I'm unsure of. Especially given the price difference.

Their recent models do have better DACs than Denon's because Denon could not get the AKM DAC chip any more after the factory fire. Anthem suffered from that too, but they chose to use one that has specs almost (not quite) as good as the AKM chip they used before (like Denon and Marantz) as replacement. The better DAC will not likely make an audible difference, as the new Denon still manage respectable bench test results. For music, I find both Denon and Anthem do a good enough job, that I don't feel my separates can do better. For movies and contents that rely on DSPs, if you do a controlled comparison listening, depending on the contents, you will likely have a preference. To me, I feel my Anthem performs better than my previous Denon and Marantz, but that's just my subjective preference, and it is next to impossible for a home user to compare two AV devices on truly apples to apples basis. In your case, if the price between the RZ50 and MRX740 is that big, it is a no brainer, even if the non independent sub outs is not a show stopper for you. Is it possible for you to listen to both in a dealer near you?

@dlaloum , do you know if the RZ50's two subouts are independent or just paralleled internally.

 

[Kallel]

Their recent models do have better DACs than Denon's because Denon could not get the AKM DAC chip any more after the factory fire. Anthem suffered from that too, but they chose to use one that has specs almost (not quite) as good as the AKM chip they used before (like Denon and Marantz) as replacement. The better DAC will not likely make an audible difference, as the new Denon still manage respectable bench test results. For music, I find both Denon and Anthem do a good enough job, that I don't feel my separates can do better. For movies and contents that rely on DSPs, if you do a controlled comparison listening, depending on the contents, you will likely have a preference. To me, I feel my Anthem performs better than my previous Denon and Marantz, but that's just my subjective preference, and it is next to impossible for a home user to compare two AV devices on truly apples to apples basis. In your case, if the price between the RZ50 and MRX740 is that big, it is a no brainer, even if the non independent sub outs is not a show stopper for you. Is it possible for you to listen to both in a dealer near you?

@dlaloum , do you know if the RZ50's two subouts are independent or just paralleled internally.

Unfortunately doing a demo of both isn't possible. At least not in the same retailer.

It seems if someone sells onkyo, they don't sell anthem and vice versa. It's strange.

The rz50s 2 sub outs are paralleled, not discreet.

I have had an rz50 previously for a short time and I thought it was quite a big step up over my previous yamaha.

I'm assuming you meant it's a no brainer if the anthem is that much more expensive, that the choice would be the rz50?

Thanks

 

[peng]

@

Unfortunately doing a demo of both isn't possible. At least not in the same retailer.

It seems if someone sells onkyo, they don't sell anthem and vice versa. It's strange.

The rz50s 2 sub outs are paralleled, not discreet.

I have had an rz50 previously for a short time and I thought it was quite a big step up over my previous yamaha.

I'm assuming you meant it's a no brainer if the anthem is that much more expensive, that the choice would be the rz50?

Thanks

Yes, the Anthem is good but not worth so much more than Onkyo's, but that's just my opinion. As mentioned, Onkyo mass produces avrs and avps, Anthem, being boutique like, sells less, and is likely less cost effective.

One thing I like about Anthem is, they tell you their gear are not designed to have a sonic flavor, so no bs there. The thing I am most disappinted with, is the fan noise issue, and the overrated ARCg. Again, people like the effects, but facts don't lie. It is also not as flexible as DL and Audyssey, that, imo are better for tweakaholics. That, of course, is not necessarily a bad thing though.

Anthem AVRs don't let you bypass the adc/dac, so for the so called analog purist, they need to be aware if they use analog inputs for music listening in D+M, Onkyo, Yamaha's direct modes.

 

[UnusedUsername]

Hello, I'm glad to have found this forum. Although being new to amplifiers (and most of the technical intricacies of hifi, really), a lot of the discussions and reviews are still opaque to me.

I'm currently using the Onkyo TX-NR7100, which as I understand is quite similar to the RZ50, but weaker in regard to its amplifier-capabilities (100W instead of 120W at 8ohm) and only provides pre-outs for the front-channel. I hope, that it's okay to attach my question to this thread, since I haven't found a dedicated discussion-thread of the TX-NR7100.

As it stands, the receiver powers
2x Kef iq7se
1x Kef iq2c
2x Kef iq3

...but I'm eying an upgrade to
2x Focal Aria 948
1x CC900
2x Aria SR900).

Since the 948, while having a nominal impedance of 8ohm, have a minimum impedance of 2.5ohm, I'm worried that the TX-NR7100's internal amplifier might be stretched a little thin. This worry is based mainly on having read reviews of focal speakers, which mention "harshness", which supposedly subsided once better amps were used.

Do you think, that the avr should be able to handle the speakers by itself, or that it would benefit greatly from having the 948s powered by an external amp using the preouts?

 

[peng]

Hello, I'm glad to have found this forum. Although being new to amplifiers (and most of the technical intricacies of hifi, really), a lot of the discussions and reviews are still opaque to me.

I'm currently using the Onkyo TX-NR7100, which as I understand is quite similar to the RZ50, but weaker in regard to its amplifier-capabilities (100W instead of 120W at 8ohm) and only provides pre-outs for the front-channel. I hope, that it's okay to attach my question to this thread, since I haven't found a dedicated discussion-thread of the TX-NR7100.

As it stands, the receiver powers
2x Kef iq7se
1x Kef iq2c
2x Kef iq3

...but I'm eying an upgrade to
2x Focal Aria 948
1x CC900
2x Aria SR900).

Since the 948, while having a nominal impedance of 8ohm, have a minimum impedance of 2.5ohm, I'm worried that the TX-NR7100's internal amplifier might be stretched a little thin. This worry is based mainly on having read reviews of focal speakers, which mention "harshness", which supposedly subsided once better amps were used.

Do you think, that the avr should be able to handle the speakers by itself, or that it would benefit greatly from having the 948s powered by an external amp using the preouts?

It depend a lot on your distance and spl requirements. For example, if you sit from 10 ft or less, and listen to 6 or more, say 10 dB below reference level, the avr can do it, but if you pair the avr with an amp rated for 300 to 500 W, 4 ohms, then you can relax more.

 

[dlaloum]

Thanks again.

Curious why you went the integra over say 3800 or rz50?

The 3800 was not available yet, the 3700 was Audyssey, and I had had years of disappointment with Audyssey and wanted to try Dirac.

The 3.4 was AU$1700 to the RZ50 AU$2400 (at the time, in my location!)... and my requirements were for 5.1.4

Although the RZ50/5.4 has more power, I do not expect that it would handle my 4ohm speakers any differently to the 3.4, so I had my power amps ready... and expected that in terms of surround and height both/either would be ample.

In some regions the 3.4 is more expensive than the RZ50 - but had they been similarly priced I would have taken the RZ50