Thank you. I may end up getting a mic anyway if I want to validate the results using REW, which I still need to learn how to use.
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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Thank you. I may end up getting a mic anyway if I want to validate the results using REW, which I still need to learn how to use.
Boy, was hoping this would fair a bit better. Looking for an AVR with DIRAC, and the NAD T778 didn't fare very well so was looking forward to this one.
Between the two, and assuming the amp will only be used for in ceiling Atmos and surrounds (fronts are active Seaton Cat 8Cs), and used almost exclusively for home theater, is this a decent buy vs the much more expensive T778 or pretty much a wash?
Between the two, and assuming the amp will only be used for in ceiling Atmos and surrounds (fronts are active Seaton Cat 8Cs), and used almost exclusively for home theater, is this a decent buy vs the much more expensive T778 or pretty much a wash?
If you're going to power just Atmos and surrounds w/ the AVR amps then yes, it's not a bad deal. The pre-outs measured fairly well but not quite as clean as the Denon(s) but they don't have DL. I'm very happy w/ mine as I'm using a Purifi for my L/R and a Buckeye for the surrounds so a similar use case-Dirac Live is a big step up from Audyssey IMO and makes all the difference when listening to HT.
I am using the Integra DRX 3.4 baby brother to the RZ50, it has 20W less power, and 2 fewer channels (so 5.1.4 or 7.1.2), in terms of power it is a lightweight... at around 10kg (my old Onkyo TX-SR876 was around 30kg, the RZ50 is around 15kg)
So I was not expecting huge current capacity, as I know that the smaller transformer and power supply is going to limit things - the prepro performance is very good... in the 90's db SINAD, and I use external amps to run front L/R - leaving the internal amp to run only the surrounds/heights and the Center channel ... so probably 50% of the power supply capacity will go to the center and 50% spread around surrounds and heights....
Result is very good!
On its own, powering everything (with my difficult to drive speakers), it was not sounding as good as it should - my previous heavy duty Onkyo (140W@8ohm all channels or 165W+@8ohm 2 channels) sounded better... which was not unexpected. But at the price I paid, I have a surround and center amp, and a truly top notch prepro.... which is great value!
The Dirac works, and works very well, a dramatic change for the better, and much much better (in my system/room) than Audyssey
The RZ50 is not really an equivalent or intended to be a competitor to the T778... there will be some flagship models from Onkyo later this year - RZ70 and RZ90... (my previous Onkyo 876 was from the flagship series of 2008...)
The RZ50/LX505/DRX5.4 or the DRX3.4 are all suited to what you are proposing - with the DRX 3.4 only being applicable if you don't want to go beyond 9 channels - they are great value for what they are - and running external amps to the front, their internal amps should be able to handle the rest with ease. (My 100W DRX3.4 is handling surrounds/heights/center with ease in a huge cathedral ceiling, open living Lounge/dining/kitchen space.... )
Hope that helps
Thanks, I'm currently using Anthem ARC (Avm60 with an external amp) and really curious about Dirac.
I may need 11 channels if I eventually add a couple rear surrounds.
Any pricing announced on the models with DLBC or whatever it's called? Though maybe with 2 symmetrically placed subs (mains sit on them) that I EQ with AllDSP that isn't critical. Not sure what else is unique about the 70/90.
I may need 11 channels if I eventually add a couple rear surrounds.
Any pricing announced on the models with DLBC or whatever it's called? Though maybe with 2 symmetrically placed subs (mains sit on them) that I EQ with AllDSP that isn't critical. Not sure what else is unique about the 70/90.
Nothing has been announced about the RZ70/90 - just guesses and wishlists!
We know the models are real because they have been included in a couple of published lists (Receivers supporting DTS Play-Fi, and Receivers compatible with a Rack mount kit)
Also the predecessors of this flagship range used AKM TOTL Chipsets.... which have been in short supply since the AKM factory fire.... (that may be part of the reason for delays in the release of the flagship models?)
We know the models are real because they have been included in a couple of published lists (Receivers supporting DTS Play-Fi, and Receivers compatible with a Rack mount kit)
Also the predecessors of this flagship range used AKM TOTL Chipsets.... which have been in short supply since the AKM factory fire.... (that may be part of the reason for delays in the release of the flagship models?)
I was looking to replace my old Marantz receiver (used as a preamp) for my 7.2 home theater set up and after reading a glowing review on you tube (Andrew Robinson) I was set to buy the Onkyo RZ50. The problem was finding it anywhere and especially a vendor I could return it. After hearing that my daughter had a problem with Onkyo support I did decide to purchase the Denon X3700 (as a pre amp). I am still fairly shocked at the bad review of the Onkyo here at ASR.
jefny
jefny
Remember that a lot of what the review points to as issues is likely not noticeable to the vast, vast majority of users. If speakers that are not overly power hungry are being driven, it's probably going to sound fine for home theater, especially after incorporating Audyssey or Dirac, etc.
If you look at the list of reviewed products, there aren't many that get a passing great outside of the Denon's. It's unfortunate, as it would appear that it shouldn't take an exorbitant amount of R&D/spend to improve on some of the issues found and it would seem it is more laziness or apathy to get it right than anything else.
One of the great things about the reviews is you get to see in black and white, the unit's strenghts/weaknesses... you then get to decide if they matter to you, or if you can mitigate any of the issues found. For example, in this unit, if you used it as an inexpensive Dirac Processor and used external amps... or if you just used external amps on the LCR... would it then be ok? Without bench tests we simply would not have any idea. The great thing is now a buyer can make an informed decision on if it meets there needs.
It's not such a bad review...
The issue with the amps going into "protection mode" has existed at least for the last 2 generations... in the pioneer range LX303/4/5 LX503/4/5, Integra DRX 3.3/3.4/4.3/5.4 and Onkyo's...
To trigger it requires continuous load at 4 ohm - if you read the many reviews out there by users from all 3 related brands, over the last 5 years... even users with 4 ohm speakers, are just not reporting the issue in real life... (I have seen only 1 user report the problem, over thousands of user postings).
Then when you look at other aspects of performance - signal to noise/dynamic range, preout voltage & clipping - the figures are very good.
So yes we know that this AVR family has a specific characteristic, that it protects itself, when placed under specific types of stress. (we also know that other brands tested have similar protection systems...) - it is a perhaps overly protective approach, but given past experiences where Onkyo was insufficiently protective, and had overheating related failures... a comprehensible one.
In terms of sound quality they are very good (I have an Integra DRX 3.4).
In terms of amplification, most people who have hard to drive loads that might trigger the sort of issue documented in the review (as I do), aren't going to run on the internal amps, as optimum sound quality won't be achieved that way - hard to drive speakers require high current capability amps, able to drive 2 ohms without concern - I don't believe there are ANY AVR's that can really do that properly ... hence I run external amps, and my real concern, is the quality of the Pre-Out signal, and it's max voltage so that it matches properly with my external amps.
Personally, from my perspective, in my use case, it is a big "thumbs up" - what I wanted was something capable of running surrounds and height, while giving me the pre outs to run my main left / right (and center would be a bonus).
In the end, the relatively puny 100W 3.4, is running my Center as well as surrounds (and yes the center is a difficult load) - and my power amps are running L/R - removing the L/R load off the AVR, freed up enough power for it to handle the center cleanly.
I did try the AVR running the whole setup on its own, it did not sound great - the sound improved markedly, as soon as I removed the L/R load from it... To handle the sort of speakers I have, the power supply in the AVR would need to be twice the size...
I value AmirM's measurements, as they provided me with insight into the weaknesses and strengths of the most economical option in the market today for a Dirac home theatre prepro or receiver...
Having used Audyssey since 2008... Dirac has been a dramatic stepwise improvement - I heartily recommend this family of AVR's - and my one proviso is the same one I would make for every AVR... check your speakers impedance charts, against your proposed AVR's amp capabilities - most (all I think!) AVR's won't do well with difficult speaker loads. - This is mostly a precaution, as most people's speakers are NOT difficult loads... but there are loads of fantastic sounding "exotics" that require a bit more care in the choice of amps.
So with the Integra or Onkyo (or I guess Pioneer 505),nine can do 7.4.2 with external amp? Can they do 5.4.2 (I.e. Any 9 channels).
It's a 2 tiered model range in each brand (limiting the discussion to the Dirac capable models)...
The lower models (NR7100, DRX3.4, LX305) are 9 Channel - either 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 (the dual sub outputs are not independent) - so yes you can choose!
The upper models (RZ50, DRX5.4, LX505) are 11 channel... allowing for 7.1.4 (again dual sub outputs are not independent)
I expect the flagship models due out this year will support 13 channels and independent multiple subs. (at least I hope so!)
Unfortunately the 505 also only appears to be 9.2.
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I wanted to order a RZ50. But the 4 ohms issue is stopping me.
In my configuration the Avr needs to drive 2 large column speakers (bi-amp) and the center channel.
There is no chance it will do it properly.
I will wait for the upper level RZ serie if they are available one day.
It is sad that the power protection is not better designed.
In my configuration the Avr needs to drive 2 large column speakers (bi-amp) and the center channel.
There is no chance it will do it properly.
I will wait for the upper level RZ serie if they are available one day.
It is sad that the power protection is not better designed.
From experience, if you have difficult speakers, a flagship avr will drive them well, but you will still get more out of them with external amps.
From experience with previous generation avr's that were rated at 140w, and measured at over 165w stereo....
That's why this time I did not wait for the flagship... I have the external amps, and 100w/ch is more than ample for surrounds and height speakers! ( the l/r mains are being driven by amps rated 1200w into 2 ohm... they go down to 1.6ohm)
Currently Debating between the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX305 vs the Integra DRX-3.4.
Is there any reason to choose one over the other.
I know the Integra has full preouts. Anything besides that? I can get them for the same price.
RZ50 is out of stock, and I can buy these models right now. for ~$1200
Is there any reason to choose one over the other.
I know the Integra has full preouts. Anything besides that? I can get them for the same price.
RZ50 is out of stock, and I can buy these models right now. for ~$1200
If they are both around the same price, grab the Integra - so you have more options due to the Pre-Outs.
Otherwise it becomes a question of which esthetic do you prefer.... blue LED display, or Orange?
Sound will be the same.
The amps in both are fine for most speakers, but can get into trouble if you have speakers with impedances that drop below 3 ohm... in which case having the pre-outs provides the option for an external amp to handle those. (that is what I do)
Otherwise it becomes a question of which esthetic do you prefer.... blue LED display, or Orange?
Sound will be the same.
The amps in both are fine for most speakers, but can get into trouble if you have speakers with impedances that drop below 3 ohm... in which case having the pre-outs provides the option for an external amp to handle those. (that is what I do)
SynthesisCinema
Active Member
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This may or may not be issue for you... Pioneer is stuck with global crossovers so one setting for all where as Onkyo/Integra shouldn`t have this limitation.
Pioneer VSX-LX505 (with Dirac) Unboxing and Overview
Hey all, I recently picked up a Pioneer Elite VSX LX 505 and wanted to share some impressions and a half baked video review for you. I haven’t seen much media on these new Pioneer/Onkyo devices with Dirac, as they are pretty new and pretty hard to find. This unit will be making its way to...
www.audiosciencereview.com
