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New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

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I think the discussion about the AVAA is off topic here, so just one more response on that: In my room, 1 AVAA on the back wall has almost exactly half as much effect as (regarding frequency response, i don´t know for sure about decay) 2. The dip at 25Hz is roughly halved by 1 AVAA on the back wall, but is still noticeable. In my room, one AVAA is in the back corner, the other is about in the middle of the back wall. I can't place them any other way because in the other corner is the door and I also have a large closet there (the corner AVAA is on top of the closet). Both have about the same effect in my room, i think.

Whether I hear a difference, I can't really say. I first had only the KH310 and then purchased the AVAA because I wanted to close the gap between 70 and 100 Hz and hoped to get by without a subwoofer. The AVAA did not have this desired effect, but overall I liked the bass better than before and was too lazy to return them within the time limit. After that, I still bought the KH 750, which ultimately had much more effect. In the meantime, I am very satisfied. If I now turn off the AVAA, it sounds of course noticeably worse - you can see that in the comparison graph above. Above all, the increases at 34Hz and 68Hz are disturbing. But in order to really compare this, I would have to compare two calibration results (EQ filters), which were made once with and without AVAA. But that is not possible with the current setup. You can see that the AVAA clearly have a measurable effect, but you have to buy it very expensively.

In my other thread there was also feedback that the reduced reverberation in the bass may not really be audible. Also, it was noted that I probably would have gotten a better result with a multisub system much cheaper perhaps. I can not really judge that and would also reluctantly build a multisub system because of the many cables in my bedroom here. I'll leave it as it is for now.

Overall, my advice to you would be to look into the option with at least 2 subwoofers as well. Unfortunately, the MA-1 doesn't really support that yet, although there is a workaround from Neumann (but it requires all subs to be the same distance from the listening position, I believe).
Thanks, after some thinking and reading I will hold on to my money and consider second KH750 DSP. I might even be able to try the workaround as I have my KH750 placed in a position where I could place the other symmetrically. I still hope Neumann adds the capability to align two subs soon :)
 
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I'm on macOS, it's not the best user experience I've ever had. I would say the current MA-1 software is an alpha version at best, it can be really frustrating. It doesn't crash but a lot of issues with the automatic level setting and the subwoofer communication over ethernet.
I've got a response from Neumann:
They acknowledged that there are some bugs which they are working hard on to fix them asap, new release soon.
They are also working on new features. Of course they can't tell when they will implement which one but support for
multisub configuration is among those with the highests priority - they will roll new features out step by step :)

They might be able to send me a calibration table too, but it seems like they have to do it by hand.
 

ernestcarl

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@DjBonoBobo & @NoTBaTMaN

Don’t remember this was mentioned, but what was the actual distance between the microphone and speaker under test when you took the measurements? And did the MA-1 tell you to point the mic in front of the monitors or above the ceiling (mic orientation/calibration)?

I’m curious about how distance changes the appearance of the step response (after applying very tight windowing) within the same kind of monitor and same kind of microphone...
 

DjBonoBobo

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@DjBonoBobo & @NoTBaTMaN

Don’t remember this was mentioned, but what was the actual distance between the microphone and speaker under test when you took the measurements? And did the MA-1 tell you to point the mic in front of the monitors or above the ceiling (mic orientation/calibration)?

I’m curious about how distance changes the appearance of the step response (after applying very tight windowing) within the same kind of monitor and same kind of microphone...
1.68 meters, i think. Mic always 90 degrees (pointed to the ceiling).
 
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@DjBonoBobo & @NoTBaTMaN

Don’t remember this was mentioned, but what was the actual distance between the microphone and speaker under test when you took the measurements? And did the MA-1 tell you to point the mic in front of the monitors or above the ceiling (mic orientation/calibration)?

I’m curious about how distance changes the appearance of the step response (after applying very tight windowing) within the same kind of monitor and same kind of microphone...
188cm head to front wall, 138cm distance to KH310A. I have moved the KH310A inwards since that though to come closer to the equilateral triangle. No measurements with the new position yet. I also had my mic looking straight up to the ceiling (90 degrees).
 

joshmelo

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I don't want to be one to complain too much but I was pretty frustrated by the straight up false advertising of the KH80 on sweetwater. Got a message back and they're in talks to get the store listing changed to better reflect the state of software in the Neumann environment. I mean come on, there is never going to be an android app and yet it's listed right there.

Hopefully they update the applications but I have low expectations.
 

DjBonoBobo

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The background to this matter is that Neumann originally announced iOS, Android, Windows and Mac software with the KH80, as well as a measurement microphone already at that time. This was even announced in the first versions of the operating instructions for the KH80. The software was then delayed for a long time (by a year, I believe), and Neumann apparently then changed course and subsequently dropped support for systems other than iPad. There was also no longer any talk of the measuring microphone. So, unfortunately, promises that were made at the beginning were not kept. The text on sweetwater is probably from the first announcement and was never updated.

Now they finally released the MA 1 and a matching software for PC. Unfortunately, though, there are still a lot of issues they need to address.

So, yes, you can see that Neumann is having a much harder time with the whole software thing than with the hardware.

I think they can be criticized for this quite rightly. From my perspective, however, I am compensated as a customer by the fact that I still get a very good product at a very good price. Compared to the competitors, they simply still have a unique offer in some price ranges. Therefore, I can't be too angry with them.
 

joshmelo

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I was mostly empowered to contact SW by the absolutely terrible support emails I received back from Neumann. It was very clear they didn't read what I had sent them and all I got back was "Buy an Ipad or the Mic" when I explicitly asked them how I can control the speaker without either of those. This went back and forth for awhile before I just gave up and realized they don't care about my opinion as a customer and were dodging my questions. I'm sure anyone would be become quite irritated if they had to deal with the same support chain.

It's a stark contrast between the support I've received from other companies like Novation or Motu who went above and beyond to help me and knew how to communicate. I'm hoping that by stirring things up it will make Neumann update their application to actually match their marketing materials and give users much better access to the features that were promised. The listing issues aren't limited to SW, pretty much every store front has the same description.

I have to return one of the KH80's anyway because there's something rattling around inside, nice...
 

DjBonoBobo

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matt3421

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I was mostly empowered to contact SW by the absolutely terrible support emails I received back from Neumann. It was very clear they didn't read what I had sent them and all I got back was "Buy an Ipad or the Mic" when I explicitly asked them how I can control the speaker without either of those. This went back and forth for awhile before I just gave up and realized they don't care about my opinion as a customer and were dodging my questions. I'm sure anyone would be become quite irritated if they had to deal with the same support chain.

It's a stark contrast between the support I've received from other companies like Novation or Motu who went above and beyond to help me and knew how to communicate. I'm hoping that by stirring things up it will make Neumann update their application to actually match their marketing materials and give users much better access to the features that were promised. The listing issues aren't limited to SW, pretty much every store front has the same description.

I have to return one of the KH80's anyway because there's something rattling around inside, nice...
im assuming theyre outsourcing software development
 

m_g_s_g

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Hi! I own a pair of KH80’s and an UMIK-1, and have just purchased a Motu-2 to connect to the speakers (I’ve been running them unbalanced since I bought them months ago).

Now I’m wondering if I should sell the UMIK-1 and buy a MA-1 to be able to use Neumann‘s software.

I understand from this post that REW works Ok with it:
As input devices i used the MA-1 (uncalibrated) with a MOTU M4 vs. a UMIK-1 [...]
What would I lose if I switch to the MA-1? Can this mic be used as a SPL meter with REW (just like a UMIK-1)? Does somebody know if Neumann will provide a calibration file usable with REW? I understand that moving a MA-1 plus Motu-2 to another room for measuring another speaker set is more cumbersome (but I could live with that).
 

trl

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Hi! I own a pair of KH80’s and an UMIK-1, and have just purchased a Motu-2 to connect to the speakers (I’ve been running them unbalanced since I bought them months ago).

Now I’m wondering if I should sell the UMIK-1 and buy a MA-1 to be able to use Neumann‘s software.

I understand from this post that REW works Ok with it:

What would I lose if I switch to the MA-1? Can this mic be used as a SPL meter with REW (just like a UMIK-1)? Does somebody know if Neumann will provide a calibration file usable with REW? I understand that moving a MA-1 plus Motu-2 to another room for measuring another speaker set is more cumbersome (but I could live with that).
I got a calibration file for my mic on request, so you should be fine :)
The MA-1 mic works great with REW but even without calibration it is very accurate.
 

m_g_s_g

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I got a calibration file for my mic on request
Thanks for the info. Would it be easy to convert the Neumann provided calibration to REW’s format?

Excerpt from my UMIK-1 calibration file:
Code:
“Sens Factor =XXXdB, SERNO:YYYYY”
10.501  3.1677
[freq in Hz] [+-dB]...
Answering myself a previous question, I guess that it is not possible with a non-USB mic to calibrate the SPL level for REW once and for all, since it depends on the sound interface input gain (that can be changed at will ).
 
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Thanks for the info. Would it be easy to convert the Neumann provided calibration to REW’s format?

Excerpt from my UMIK-1 calibration file:
Code:
“Sens Factor =XXXdB, SERNO:YYYYY”
10.501  3.1677
[freq in Hz] [+-dB]...
Answering myself a previous question, I guess that it is not possible with a non-USB mic to calibrate the SPL level for REW once and for all, since it depends on the sound interface input gain (that can be changed at will ).
Yes it‘s very easy, they sent me an xlsx table and I could just export that into a new text file and rename the data type to .cal
 

CMB

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188cm head to front wall, 138cm distance to KH310A. I have moved the KH310A inwards since that though to come closer to the equilateral triangle. No measurements with the new position yet. I also had my mic looking straight up to the ceiling (90 degrees).
Gosh thank you NoTBaTMaN! You made me realize that 90° means straight up to the ceiling...stupid amateur me... (always used it horizontally)
 
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