Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[teashea]

I recently tried using my Neumann KH120 II speakers in my hi-fi system. I have higher-tier, floorstanding speakers in my hi-fi system, so the KH120 II are not going to replace those. But I wanted to try and see how these studio monitors sounded in a hi-fi system context. The results will be obvious to some, but I wanted to post this for people who are considering getting studio monitors for a hi-fi system.

I normally use the KH120 II at my work desk, where my listening position is slightly under one meter away (about 3 feet). In that near field set-up, the KH120 II have a certain purity of sound that I really like for critical listening. Very neutral frequency response. In this context, you hear the speakers directly with little influence from the room (except you may need to adjust the bass and low-mids, to deal with the back wall or desk reflections).

My hi-fi system is in a medium sized room where the listening position is about 2.75 meters away (about 9 feet). In this context, the room now strongly affects the speakers and their frequency response. The KH120 II became more like any other hi-fi bookshelf speakers, with their wonky frequency ups and downs. I also had to turn up the speakers a bit more than at my desk, to get the same volume at the farther listening position. So the speakers do not sound as effortless as they do at my desk. In this context, the speakers start to have a slightly "boxy" quality that most small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers have. By that, I mean you can more sense the sound is coming from speakers, rather than the total disappearing act that larger floorstanding speakers do. That purity I really liked about these speakers, in my desk set-up, went away.

I do not mean to say the KH120 II speakers were bad. I mean that these speakers become like other small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers, when you put them in a hi-fi system for listening at a farther distance. I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting. It is just a totally different listening environment, where you start to hear the effect of the room as much or more than the speakers.

If you are looking to use the KH120 II in a hi-fi system, I would say, be aware that you are not going to get all the advantages I might praise about these speakers in a near field setting. You may want to consider hi-fi speakers, as they may be better designed for certain things that audiophiles love, like wide soundstage and imaging, which are not the top objectives of studio monitor speakers. You may think neutral frequency response is what you want, because it's accurate, but you may find that too "clinical" and less enjoyable for pleasure listening. You have to listen to as many speakers as you can to learn the differences and develop your tastes, or be prepared to cycle through owning different speakers to learn from trial-and-error. However, your room is a huge factor in how good your hi-fi system sounds. If you are a beginner audiophile, you may not be willing to do 90% of what it takes to set up your room for optimal sound, e.g., you will set up your speakers for decor, and not use heavy stands, not pull your speakers feet away from the walls, not get rid of the TV between your speakers, not add 5 inch thick bass traps, etc. In that case, you will not be getting anywhere near the best from from your speakers, and your research may be focusing on things that seem important in a vacuum, but do not translate into a meaningful difference in your home set-up.

I am in complete agreement with you. The KH 120's are designed as nearfield monitors. Any other use is substantially compromised. (I know others have disagreed when I have said this in a half dozen earlier posts here).

 

[teashea]

I recently tried using my Neumann KH120 II speakers in my hi-fi system. I have higher-tier, floorstanding speakers in my hi-fi system, so the KH120 II are not going to replace those. But I wanted to try and see how these studio monitors sounded in a hi-fi system context. The results will be obvious to some, but I wanted to post this for people who are considering getting studio monitors for a hi-fi system.

I normally use the KH120 II at my work desk, where my listening position is slightly under one meter away (about 3 feet). In that near field set-up, the KH120 II have a certain purity of sound that I really like for critical listening. Very neutral frequency response. In this context, you hear the speakers directly with little influence from the room (except you may need to adjust the bass and low-mids, to deal with the back wall or desk reflections).

My hi-fi system is in a medium sized room where the listening position is about 2.75 meters away (about 9 feet). In this context, the room now strongly affects the speakers and their frequency response. The KH120 II became more like any other hi-fi bookshelf speakers, with their wonky frequency ups and downs. I also had to turn up the speakers a bit more than at my desk, to get the same volume at the farther listening position. So the speakers do not sound as effortless as they do at my desk. In this context, the speakers start to have a slightly "boxy" quality that most small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers have. By that, I mean you can more sense the sound is coming from speakers, rather than the total disappearing act that larger floorstanding speakers do. That purity I really liked about these speakers, in my desk set-up, went away.

I do not mean to say the KH120 II speakers were bad. I mean that these speakers become like other small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers, when you put them in a hi-fi system for listening at a farther distance. I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting. It is just a totally different listening environment, where you start to hear the effect of the room as much or more than the speakers.

If you are looking to use the KH120 II in a hi-fi system, I would say, be aware that you are not going to get all the advantages I might praise about these speakers in a near field setting. You may want to consider hi-fi speakers, as they may be better designed for certain things that audiophiles love, like wide soundstage and imaging, which are not the top objectives of studio monitor speakers. You may think neutral frequency response is what you want, because it's accurate, but you may find that too "clinical" and less enjoyable for pleasure listening. You have to listen to as many speakers as you can to learn the differences and develop your tastes, or be prepared to cycle through owning different speakers to learn from trial-and-error. However, your room is a huge factor in how good your hi-fi system sounds. If you are a beginner audiophile, you may not be willing to do 90% of what it takes to set up your room for optimal sound, e.g., you will set up your speakers for decor, and not use heavy stands, not pull your speakers feet away from the walls, not get rid of the TV between your speakers, not add 5 inch thick bass traps, etc. In that case, you will not be getting anywhere near the best from from your speakers, and your research may be focusing on things that seem important in a vacuum, but do not translate into a meaningful difference in your home set-up.

I agree. Wise words.

 

[teashea]

I think Pearljam5000 was joking about higher tier. But if you look at amirm's measurements of the KH120 II and KH150, they each have an incredible flat frequency response that look like someone drew the frequency response measurements with a ruler. Even down to almost 50Hz for the KH 120 II. As amirm says in the first post of this thread, "... this is the level of flatness we get out of electronics, not something electromechanical!"

My post above, about trying the KH 120 II in a medium sized room at 2.75 meters distance listening position, was getting at how the room itself starts interferes with that ruler-straight line, compared to listening to the speakers near field at one meter distance.

With higher tier speakers (that cost multiple times more), you can get improvements like much more detail, and better soundstage and imaging capabilities. But it is unfair to compare speakers at vastly different price points, as people are usually choosing among speakers within a certain budget range.

One of the reasons the KH120 II's and KH150's qualities mean so much is that at nearfield distances, room acoustics play a diminished role. That does not mean that room acoustics are not important. The are. But the direct sound from the Neumann monitors dominates.

 

[HQY]

I have two pairs - no problems.

not everyone has your luck. My pair have different wake-up issues respectively.

 

[teashea]

not everyone has your luck. My pair have different wake-up issues respectively.

I am sorry to hear about that.... best wishes.

 

[HQY]

I am sorry to hear about that.... best wishes.

Sorry i did not mean anything bad. it's not a big issue but it's something not as good as they should be. i also had standby issues with my previous kh80s. as for the sound of neumann, im quite satisfied.

 

[teashea]

Sorry i did not mean anything bad. it's not a big issue but it's something not as good as they should be. i also had standby issues with my previous kh80s. as for the sound of neumann, im quite satisfied.

It should be right....

 

[Pritaudio]

I would suggest a "real" audio interface with stable drivers etc: https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/b-stock/...ocusrite-scarlett-2i2-4th-gen-audio-interface
But also something like this should work: https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/b-stock/...-25th-anniversary-edition-2x2-audio-interface

I only need it for ma1. Will it not suffice?
What does it need to do.

 

[staticV3]

I only need it for ma1. Will it not suffice?
What does it need to do.

Read the manual: https://ma1.neumann.com/manual

 

[Pritaudio]

I am getting kh120 ii.
I can’t afford the kh750. Nor can I afford the kh150 instead.
So adding a sub would be relatively cheaper.
My room is 5m by 4m. And I listen at around 2.75m.
I’m guessing 86db at this distance would be reasonable with some dynamic headroom.

Because I’m using it in a lounge environment, the volume may increase or decrease.
I’m worried that I can’t setup differing loudness profiles for differing times without having to run ma1.

I am considering the Kali ws12 v2 subwoofer ( it has high pass and most importantly a footswitch to bypass the sub altogether). £800.
I am also considering svs sb2000 sub as it has some eq features built in. £900.

Which sub would be better suited.
The question is a lot easier as bass is non directional and spl is normally the most important factor when considering a sub.
But still I am new to all this.

Also, I use the Wiim pro and also have rme dac adi 2 for dac/preamp duties.
The Wiim pro allows for eq too.
But can I feed spdif coaxial from the Wiim to the kh120 ii directly, and control the volume of the digital out bypassing the rme adi2 directly.
And is there a chance that an accidental swipe of volume in the Wiim app will blow/damage the speakers.

 

[Matias]

I would get the SVS sub. And you could control the volume on the RME and keep the WiiM Pro maximized.

 

[Pritaudio]

I would get the SVS sub. And you could control the volume on the RME and keep the WiiM Pro maximized.

Any reason for the svs vs Kali.
The Kali ws12 v2 has crossover at 5hz intervals from below 100hz downwards.
And the footswitch would mean easy low pass signal for times when it is not suitable to listen to it.

The reason why I suggest the Wiim pro coaxial digital out straight into the kh120 ii, it would avoid an unnecessary dac and adc conversion. It may benefit the active crossover on the neumanns and all that brings.

Furthermore, how many profiles can the kh120 ii store, and how can I access them to change on a regular basis.

 

[Pritaudio]

I was considering Bowers & Wilkins DB4S. £1499.
This is because it too has a settings eq app.
This is the feature I want at a good price.
But once it is in that price range, the kh750 is about £1400.

Any other subs apart from the buchardt sub10 that uses hypex amps on the sub. £1100.
It’s app is better yet.

 

[Matias]

Any reason for the svs vs Kali.
The Kali ws12 v2 has crossover at 5hz intervals from below 100hz downwards.
And the footswitch would mean easy low pass signal for times when it is not suitable to listen to it.

The reason why I suggest the Wiim pro coaxial digital out straight into the kh120 ii, it would avoid an unnecessary dac and adc conversion. It may benefit the active crossover on the neumanns and all that brings.

Furthermore, how many profiles can the kh120 ii store, and how can I access them to change on a regular basis.

Oh sorry I misread you had the RME ADI-2 Pro, which has digital outs, and therefore you could control its volume digitally without DA/AD conversion. Never mind, indeed I would use the WiiM Pro digital output into the 120s directly, and use the lowest gain that gets you enough volume.

As for the SVS, the Bluetooth app is excellent to adjust setting while sitting on the sweet spot, so convenient.

 

[Pritaudio]

Would that work with the preouts of the Wiim pro going to the svs, while coaxial digital to the neumanns.
So the volume would need to increase at the same rate via both preouts and digital out of the Wiim.

It would save me having to get the Wiim ultra for its sub out.
And this feature may not even work on the Wiim ultra. It just has the connections that are required to do so at this stage.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Any reason for the svs vs Kali.
The Kali ws12 v2 has crossover at 5hz intervals from below 100hz downwards.
And the footswitch would mean easy low pass signal for times when it is not suitable to listen to it.

The reason why I suggest the Wiim pro coaxial digital out straight into the kh120 ii, it would avoid an unnecessary dac and adc conversion. It may benefit the active crossover on the neumanns and all that brings.

Furthermore, how many profiles can the kh120 ii store, and how can I access them to change on a regular basis.

If you are using the MA1, you can store multiple profiles on your pc and load 1 at a time into the speaker via MA1 software. Also, you can control volume via MA1 software only after calibrating.
So, it will not work the way you hope.

 

[Pritaudio]

If you are using the MA1, you can store multiple profiles on your pc and load 1 at a time into the speaker via MA1 software. Also, you can control volume via MA1 software only after calibrating.
So, it will not work the way you hope.

I won’t be changing positioning of speakers.
I have borrowed the ma1 mic to generate settings for different scenarios.
I will have some stored profiles on the pc which I can save for reference.
I will not be using the pc afterwards. I have no need for ma1 except for firmware updates.
I will be using a streamer for volume purposes.

Does the iPad ma1 app still work.
And does it overwrite any settings from the ma1 desktop app for further tinkering.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Does the iPad ma1 app still work.

No, it does not work with 120II or 150.

And does it overwrite any settings from the ma1 desktop app for further tinkering.

Yes, there is a warning in the manual, that you should not use MA1 desktop and the old ipad app parallel (with kh80 or 750).

 

[Pritaudio]

Can I get away with not needing the expensive microphone once I’ve run through a few setups in location.
And can I store these on a drive in case of resetting the speakers.

Otherwise it maybe a trial and error using rew with umik1 to resemble what these settings were.

 

[asteroth]

I recently tried using my Neumann KH120 II speakers in my hi-fi system. I have higher-tier, floorstanding speakers in my hi-fi system, so the KH120 II are not going to replace those. But I wanted to try and see how these studio monitors sounded in a hi-fi system context. The results will be obvious to some, but I wanted to post this for people who are considering getting studio monitors for a hi-fi system.

I normally use the KH120 II at my work desk, where my listening position is slightly under one meter away (about 3 feet). In that near field set-up, the KH120 II have a certain purity of sound that I really like for critical listening. Very neutral frequency response. In this context, you hear the speakers directly with little influence from the room (except you may need to adjust the bass and low-mids, to deal with the back wall or desk reflections).

My hi-fi system is in a medium sized room where the listening position is about 2.75 meters away (about 9 feet). In this context, the room now strongly affects the speakers and their frequency response. The KH120 II became more like any other hi-fi bookshelf speakers, with their wonky frequency ups and downs. I also had to turn up the speakers a bit more than at my desk, to get the same volume at the farther listening position. So the speakers do not sound as effortless as they do at my desk. In this context, the speakers start to have a slightly "boxy" quality that most small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers have. By that, I mean you can more sense the sound is coming from speakers, rather than the total disappearing act that larger floorstanding speakers do. That purity I really liked about these speakers, in my desk set-up, went away.

I do not mean to say the KH120 II speakers were bad. I mean that these speakers become like other small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers, when you put them in a hi-fi system for listening at a farther distance. I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting. It is just a totally different listening environment, where you start to hear the effect of the room as much or more than the speakers.

If you are looking to use the KH120 II in a hi-fi system, I would say, be aware that you are not going to get all the advantages I might praise about these speakers in a near field setting. You may want to consider hi-fi speakers, as they may be better designed for certain things that audiophiles love, like wide soundstage and imaging, which are not the top objectives of studio monitor speakers. You may think neutral frequency response is what you want, because it's accurate, but you may find that too "clinical" and less enjoyable for pleasure listening. You have to listen to as many speakers as you can to learn the differences and develop your tastes, or be prepared to cycle through owning different speakers to learn from trial-and-error. However, your room is a huge factor in how good your hi-fi system sounds. If you are a beginner audiophile, you may not be willing to do 90% of what it takes to set up your room for optimal sound, e.g., you will set up your speakers for decor, and not use heavy stands, not pull your speakers feet away from the walls, not get rid of the TV between your speakers, not add 5 inch thick bass traps, etc. In that case, you will not be getting anywhere near the best from from your speakers, and your research may be focusing on things that seem important in a vacuum, but do not translate into a meaningful difference in your home set-up.

Which floorstanding speakers do you have?