NAD M23 Stereo Amplifier Review

[Golf]

Cambridge Audio, Emotiva, Rotel. Pretty old, manufactured in China I believe.

A »pretty old« Rotel unit built in China?

 

[IAtaman]

A »pretty old« Rotel unit built in China?

In pursuit of lower labour costs, Rotel first moved production from Japan to Taiwan in the eighties and then to China a decade later. In Shenzhen they rent a multi-floored factory. The logistical challenges of managing production across separate levels precipitated Rotel’s move to build their own single-storey factory in Zhuhai.

Rotel Electronics - a Zhuhai factory tour | Darko.Audio

John Darko takes a tour of Rotel's Chinese self-built/owned manufacturing facility in Zhuhai's free trade zone.

darko.audio

 

[KenA]

In pursuit of lower labour costs, Rotel first moved production from Japan to Taiwan in the eighties and then to China a decade later. In Shenzhen they rent a multi-floored factory. The logistical challenges of managing production across separate levels precipitated Rotel’s move to build their own single-storey factory in Zhuhai.

Rotel Electronics - a Zhuhai factory tour | Darko.Audio

John Darko takes a tour of Rotel's Chinese self-built/owned manufacturing facility in Zhuhai's free trade zone.

darko.audio

I’m not great with geography, but I’m presuming Zhuhai isn’t in Texas?

 

[Golf]

The logistical challenges of managing production across separate levels precipitated Rotel’s move to build their own single-storey factory in Zhuhai.

Thanks for the info!

It’s nevertheless not easy to find any official image of a Rotel device showing the »Made by ROTEL in China« at the back

 

[Chilli]

My Jungson amp was out in 2003. Made in zhongshan? Still going well.
Zhuhai is the tube amplifier capital of the world. Spark audio (Cayin spark) based there and many subsequent brands.
There were many well known brands in China back then. Just not well known most that had not been looking. Several western manufacturers knew.

 

[Mtbf]

So what’s the point of rejoicing when toppings dacs are having 120db. In 2023, everything should have 120db min as a standard

Numbers fetishism

 

[pma]

Numbers fetishism

Yeah. Frankly, I am not sure what is worse, if audiophilia, or technophilia. Both are based on lack of knowledge, both tend to pray to something and lead to adoration.

 

[Mtbf]

I listened to a topping la90d some days back, and never in my life I heard an amp that didn’t make any hiss not even faint one through the tweeter. I could hear micro micro details easily, effortlessly.

Serious case of expectation bias. You’ve read the numbers and now you think you can hear these numbers.

 

[fcracer]

OK but if you aim for "service", and you want to go "D2C", would you agree that to maintain that they would need facilities in all parts of the world? Would that really be cheaper? It's hard to get both, shipping time have gone trough the roof a distribution model is one way to offer great service to your customer. B2C model works for price value, but invariably, the service part is only going to be great near where you are located. In distribution, you can ship bulk, you distributor can handle the service. You can't having great service and expect low price, all these decisions involve compromising something.

I don't think what we're discussing is mutually exclusive. You can have distributors that provide great service in various locations around the world, while having a Direct-2-Consumer sales model. This would reduce or eliminate at least one level of extra cost and/or provide NAD with more profit.

I believe they're actually doing this in some regions as I've noticed that they now sell some items online (in select regions) and I also noticed that some of their newer distributors are owned by NAD (HK, Malaysia, Oman, etc.) whereas in the past, I recall all distributors being independent.

Regardless of the model, I think NAD still provides good value for the money. I just wish they'd "amp up" some of their materials and build quality (even on the Masters line) and provide rock solid support across the world; I've had great support here in China, but I know some other regions aren't as lucky.

 

[boXem]

That's actually nice considering the complaints some have about the quality of the materials used for Purifi boards...

That's the first time that I read such a claim. And honestly I am very surprised to read it. Aren't you mixing with Hypex whose components used lead to a few train wrecks on ASR?

 

[dogmamann]

Serious case of expectation bias. You’ve read the numbers and now you think you can hear these numbers.

Same goes for the NAD, you see the power rating, and you think it’s better. In a Living Room loudness level, you hear no difference between 10 watts and 1000 watts. You are sold for the power numbers as I am for sinad numbers

 

[dogmamann]

Do you know what headroom is?

I forgot, music consists of dynamics, right?

You're really "wingin' it"

Still you don’t need 100s of watts if you look at a McIntosh power amps at reasonable levels, it doesn’t even cross 10 watts !!

 

[MacCali]

Hi Mac,
I have had the sort of opposite experience to you.
I have had a Bryston 4B for about 20 years.
I recently decided to use two subs to compliment my existing full range speakers so purchased a Hypex NC252MP and fitted it into a case with my own hardware. It powered the two JBL 12" really well.
I decided to swap it for the Bryston. I had my son swap the amp connections (or not) in a very limited ABX type impromptu test.
I honestly could not tell the difference so I find your experience interesting. Im not sure I can visualize into my hearing what "warm side of neutral" would sound like? Could have something to do with the slew rate of the switching devices?
I believe a well designed amplifier of either class of construction will provide exactly the same amount of un-distorted energy.
I think others here have mentioned the ability of a Class D type being better suited to speaker loads that can drive low ohm (impedance) types without tripping or any form of waveform distortion.
Im sure you hear a difference but I dont think we have the present technology to "measure why" you hear the difference in the output wave forms of two different amplifier designs.

Honestly I can’t say specifically what I mean or comprehend either. So far I’ve bought a couple vintage amps, and really enjoy the work of parasound from the 98-2005ish era.

I own the HCA-1000, the first of the parasound amps I bought. I bought the HCA-1200 mk2, and then the HCA-1500. Prior to buying these 2 NADs I was settled on 2 1500’s and still have and use then frequently. I’ve also heard the HCA-2200 and 3500 which is the entire line of those amps. They all sound different to me, I’ve had a few members on here think I’m crazy and I don’t blame them but something is definitely happening. As you pointed out I wouldn’t be able to tell them apart like a double blind test but I would definitely hear the difference.

But to the point, these amps generally have a “warm” tonality or they’re musical or whatever. The NAD M33 and 23 provide this similar musicality just at a much more subtle approach. I own the Allo Volt+ D and clearly that’s a really budget amp and yet not a bad amp made get hey maybe this is why people don’t like class D.

I’ve been to 4 audio shows now and clearly I’ve heard a bunch of class D’s and even though they didn’t check as many boxes for cons as the Allo some were still present.

When I heard the canto black after Thomas and Stereo reviewed it I can see where he was coming from. But that amp had 3 versions I believe a cheap plastic enclosure for 7 grand and a full aluminum with whatever upgrades for 15 I believe. I heard the one that was 15k and honestly it was nice.

My personal take is you probably get 95% of that with this amp. That’s only reason I dished out 4 grand. In comparison it’s a value and again unaware of the Audiophonics or Buckeye amps.

Also I can totally understand the criticism on the points I bring up cause who knows what they matched with the class D amps I heard and not only that it may also be a recording issue. All the demos were never the same

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Same goes for the NAD, you see the power rating, and you think it’s better. In a Living Room loudness level, you hear no difference between 10 watts and 1000 watts. You are sold for the power numbers as I am for sinad numbers

You obviously do not know what dynamic headroom is. I can guarantee that if you try to power a couple of large speakers or speakers with difficult impedance / phase curve 10 W doesn't do them justice and difference will be heard.

Maybe you don't need more power due to near field / high sensitivity speakers / easy to drive speakers / music taste / volume.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Oh, decades? Two – or one and a half?

Would you even consider buying some noteworthy piece of stereo equipment as »vintage« as 2003 that is China-made? Keeping the long-life cycle quality in mind, I definitely won’t.

The quality of a product is determined by its engineering standards and quality control, not something arbitrary like the location on the planet where it was assembled. I was comfortably selling hifi equipment that was made in China in 2003.

 

[Mtbf]

It has been literally decades since "Made in China" had anything to do with a product's quality.

That’s not exactly my experience, to put it kindly. I’ve had way too much China stuff dying prematurely in the years behind, up to very recently. And I absolutely truly hate that, not to mention that it’s a disaster for the planet. Yes, bought from well-known US/EU companies, but made in China. Recently had 8 leaking caps on a total of 9, in an electronic device just over half a dozen years old. Compare that to an old German-made FM/AM/USW transistor radio, which I got from an inheritance, which is working flawlessly for over 50 years. No, Those Were The Days and The Times They Are a-Changin', not only for the better.

 

[Verig]

Still you don’t need 100s of watts if you look at a McIntosh power amps at reasonable levels, it doesn’t even cross 10 watts !!

With what speakers and listening distance?

 

[Verig]

NAD builds the Purifi boards themselves, under license.

Ah, I stand corrected. Interesting.

 

[Mtbf]

You are sold for the power numbers as I am for sinad numbers

I’m not sold for anything.

 

[IAtaman]

That’s not exactly my experience, to put it kindly. I’ve had way too much China stuff dying prematurely in the years behind, up to very recently. And I absolutely truly hate that, not to mention that it’s a disaster for the planet. Yes, bought from well-known US/EU companies, but made in China. Recently had 8 leaking caps on a total of 9, in an electronic device just over half a dozen years old. Compare that to an old German-made FM/AM/USW transistor radio, which I got from an inheritance, which is working flawlessly for over 50 years. No, Those Were The Days and The Times They Are a-Changin', not only for the better.

Commonality among those products that drive your experience with them is not where they are manufactured, it is the fact that they are commodity products manufactured to be as cheap as possible for well known EU/US companies that want to maximize their profits. Instead of buying a Macbook properly made in China you go and buy a Makabooka laptop for one fifth of the price, and when it fails two months later, your conclusion is it failed because Chinese manufacturers are bad?