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NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Review

restorer-john

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Hi, Im a proud new owner of the M10-V2. I am extremely happy about the features and better than expected sound. There is just one thing which really worries me.
The device gets when listening even pretty silent very hot. In System Settings you can see left + right temps after few hours listening at 65-69 degree Celsius.
To my "taste" this might really harm the electronics over time, or am I wrong?
2nd there is no real off switch. Does anybody know if switching off with a programmable socket (10pm-8am) could harm the device over time ?

If the entire internals of the product are sitting at that sort of temperature when just idling along playing quietly, it's simply too hot.

Spot temperatures at high powers in amplifiers can go well above 120 degrees, but that's on devices designed to dissipate that sort of heat. We all know that operation at elevated temperatures shortens the life of electronics. It's well undestood science.

Once you get over 70 degrees, in my epxerience, you have random silicon failures, capacitor deterioration, heat cycling weakens soldered joints, expansion/contraction causes stress on SMD components etc.

If the reported temperatures are on say the heatsinks for the output devices, those temps are OK. If it's the entire interior, I'd be concerned for sure. What is the idle consumption (no music playing)- that will give you an idea of how much power is going up as heat?
 

chefffe

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Thanks for your sight of view and I fully agree to that. When I read here in the forum I found already some ppl who had to send their devices for repair.
When I look at the picture how it is built up its no wonder that it "boils" somehow inside.
There is not any possibility for heat to disappear. Looks to be a design failure or in purpose :facepalm:.

I really think about to send it back but I read also lots of good long term feedback. Not sure yet what to do ... and 5 years warranty is also not bad.
 

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iLoveCats

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5 year warranty? It looks like to me the V2 warranty is 3 years? The V1 was 2 years. If you have a 5 year warranty I wouldn't worry about anything.
 

chefffe

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Germany and Netherlands have 2 years + 3 years extension after registering ... still its not nice if you have to send it in on your own costs and wait several weeks in case it happens.
I am getting slightly mad when I see that they cover on top of device the cooling fins with a glass, so that not any hot air can disappear, thats kinda mad ...

Nevertheless, its great performing and fits 100% to my needs. I assume I will keep it ... but think already about drilling holes in it :D
 

chefffe

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If the reported temperatures are on say the heatsinks for the output devices, those temps are OK. If it's the entire interior, I'd be concerned for sure. What is the idle consumption (no music playing)- that will give you an idea of how much power is going up as heat?
The whole box is even its plastic cover for my feeling way to warm (some testers also confirmed).
btw. idle consumption is 22W, so not really that much but its a literally closed box. I will remove the glass on top of the device, I know me too good :D
 

TK33

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Hi, Im a proud new owner of the M10-V2. I am extremely happy about the features and better than expected sound. There is just one thing which really worries me.
The device gets when listening even pretty silent very hot. In System Settings you can see left + right temps after few hours listening at 65-69 degree Celsius.
To my "taste" this might really harm the electronics over time, or am I wrong?
2nd there is no real off switch. Does anybody know if switching off with a programmable socket (10pm-8am) could harm the device over time ?
I just got mine a few weeks ago after my old NAD D 3045 started acting up (volume increasing by itself and auto standby no longer working). When I got the D 3045 about three years ago, the first thing I noticed was how hot it ran. I most recently used the D 3045 in a nearfield desktop setup with some KEF LS50 Metas and it felt warm even when powered on but not playing any content. With the NAD M10 v2 and the same LS50 Metas, the heat is nowhere as bad as the D 3045 and I have never noticed it running too warm during the short time I have had it. Kids are sleeping so I have my volume at -70 db and it is at 57-59 degrees celsius after an hour or so and doesnt seem too warm at all (except the side next to my Thunderbolt hub that I can probably fry an egg on). If yours feels hot, I would maybe see if your dealer can get you a different one to make sure it is not just your unit. When my M10 v2 is in standby mode, it is cool to the touch. I use the remote to put it in standby when not in use. There is also a standby button on the rear of the M10 v2 that you have to hold for a while but the location is inconvenient so I never use it (had to read the manual to find it). Very happy with my M10 v2 so far. Just need to find some time to run DIRAC. If it had a USB input for PC and a way to connect my headphone amp, it would be perfect for desktop use. For now, I have to keep my Node 2i and RME ADI-2 on my desk next to it to get PC audio and for my headphones.
 

chefffe

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There is a clear indication with the 2 Temperature Sensors. Anything else is subjective feelings. Mine went up to 67 Degree after 3-4 hours of listening (room temp 23C). Do you have any explanation why NAD covers heatsinks completely in Plastic and Glass? There is absolutely no reason, except design and maybe really ... Obsolescence
Whatever, I started cracking the glasscover which is covering heatsink and this gave me already 5-6C cooler temps. The metal plate below the glass cover has also holes and I will remove all glass until the lighted NAD logo.

I am doing some CAD to create a new coverplate (Aluminium or black Plexiglass) with my Laser or CNC which will allow the heat to disappear.

The device else is absolutely fascinating, thats what I ever wanted. So I try to extend its lifetime ... a bit :)
 

TK33

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There is a clear indication with the 2 Temperature Sensors. Anything else is subjective feelings.
Not sure if this was directed at me since you did not reply directly to my post but, if it was, I dont really understand what you are getting at with this. Sorry I took the time to run it for only an hour for you...next time I will try to do the full 3-4 hours since I have nothing better to do. Of course the temps I gave you are from the temperature sensors on the device. Did you think I measured subjectively by hand/touch/feel instead of looking at the temperature the device is reporting or perhaps held my ear thermometer up to it? Are you suggesting the temperature sensors are wrong?

I am not an engineer nor do I work for NAD, just someone trying to enjoy music and be helpful by letting you know how mine is operating so you can determine for yourself if it is a design issue or an issue with your own unit.

Good luck with your new NAD. I spent weeks researching and I couldn't really find anything else that had the features I was looking for in a compact box for an all in one desktop setup. As I said, I am not an engineer but I am pretty "unscientifically," perhaps subjectively, sure heat is a side effect of cramming all that "stuff" in the small box. I do have to say it looks very nice on my desk (again, subjective of course).
 

chefffe

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All fine, this was just because of your following remark:
"If yours feels hot, I would maybe see if your dealer can get you a different one to make sure it is not just your unit. When my M10 v2 is in standby mode, it is cool to the touch"

Whenever you can run yours for several more hours it would be interesting if your temps also rise still a bit.
Not that the device is designed to break, but how they did it is clearly against any logic.

Before, I used WIIM Pro going to Antimode X2, then to a china clone of Naim NAP200 (which was for sure more powerful, but did not sound better). 3 devices, using quite some space having together an "odd" look and the NAD is doing all of this together in a nice looking little piece. I am pretty sure I will keep it for long time ..
 

chefffe

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Just finished "Operation cool M10" :D
I would not recommend to do it, only if you are a special Agent :cool: with Tools and some Skills. There was a few times when I thought ... thats it ...

Temps decreased around 8-10C ... Mission accomplished.
 

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Jasperous

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For a long time I wanted this amp and the KEF R3… but it’s just not worth it. The LS60 when on sale isn’t that much more expensive. True it doesn’t have room correction, but hopefully when I do finally go for the LS60 they will have integrated that functionality.
 

chefffe

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To me this is my first audio device which created an addiction.
I walk by the device, touch screen and it plays ... I control from PC/Tab/Phone/Remote and everything works simply perfect. I never heard that much music before in my life and the sound quality is excellent. In my room I must use room correction as my speakers have to stand only few cm from back-wall. Dirac is doing brilliant job here.

The bad is, my hobby might get on risk ... which was before building and buying selling lots of stuff all the time ...
 

chefffe

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Just a little new version, which I will keep. Its slightly M33typeish :D, at least that was the plan. Hope I dont bore you with these posts ...
In Reality it looks way better than on these photos, u dont see dust ...
 

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TK33

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All fine, this was just because of your following remark:
"If yours feels hot, I would maybe see if your dealer can get you a different one to make sure it is not just your unit. When my M10 v2 is in standby mode, it is cool to the touch"

Whenever you can run yours for several more hours it would be interesting if your temps also rise still a bit.
Not that the device is designed to break, but how they did it is clearly against any logic.

Before, I used WIIM Pro going to Antimode X2, then to a china clone of Naim NAP200 (which was for sure more powerful, but did not sound better). 3 devices, using quite some space having together an "odd" look and the NAD is doing all of this together in a nice looking little piece. I am pretty sure I will keep it for long time ..
Finally had a few hours to myself today so I finally got around to playing around with DIRAC Live. NAD M10 v2 has been streaming or running DIRAC measurements for the last 6 1/2 hours so I figured I would check the temperatures being reported by the M10 v2 for you. Left is 62 degrees celsius and right is 64 degrees celsius. Doesn't seem to have changed much in the last 30 min or so since I first remembered to check. Currently driving KEF LS50 Metas and have the crossover set at 140hz. NAD M10 v2 is sitting on my desktop.

Really happy with the M10 v2 now, although it turns out the latest version of DIRAC Live does not work with the M10 v2 and a sub. I had to find v. 3.4.4 of the software (based on some posts I found online), which fixed the issue but I wasted a few hours of my day trying to figure out why my sub had no sound and reruning everything.
 

pogo

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There is also Beta 3.9.1 for NAD.
 

chefffe

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The right temp went at mine up to 69C once. Now I have 60 there. I am happy with that. There was few days ago a new update but I have no clue which things were changed.
Sounds like its good that I dont use my sub as my Mains have more than enough bass.
 
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