Music: how loud is loud? (video)

[Deleted member 27948]

That would sound bright. You want the bass at higher level than treble.

Sorry for not being clear. I meant adjusting low freqs (< 100...200Hz - depends) up with -2...3dB/octave slope to match mid and highs

 

[Frgirard]

Sorry for not being clear. I meant adjusting low freqs (< 100...200Hz - depends) up with -2...3dB/octave slope to match mid and highs

It's time for you to see the equal loudness contour curve.
The flat response at the listening position is a torment.

 

[Deleted member 27948]

It's time for you to see the equal loudness contour curve.
The flat response at the listening position is a torment.

Hmm... See the equal loudness curves again? For what specifically?

AFAIK, recording studios use a bit higher reference SPL (mid-to-high 80s) than the typical listeners (mid to high 70s). The difference between the average 75 and 85 son contours is mostly in LF. Hence my question.

Why is it a torment? a simple MATLAB script could create the adjustment filter to match any 2 curves, either IIR or FIR, either minimal phase or constant delay, in a split second. What is so hard about it?

 

[kyle_neuron]

Hmm... See the equal loudness curves again? For what specifically?

AFAIK, recording studios use a bit higher reference SPL (mid-to-high 80s) than the typical listeners (mid to high 70s). The difference between the average 75 and 85 son contours is mostly in LF. Hence my question.

Why is it a torment? a simple MATLAB script could create the adjustment filter to match any 2 curves, either IIR or FIR, either minimal phase or constant delay, in a split second. What is so hard about it?

It’s not hard to implement, it’s hard to listen to for music playback.

A music studio is not a listening environment. The best studios and engineers have separate systems (or processing) for the different processes of producing, final mastering, and auditioning.

 

[Frgirard]

I never encountered in mastering pro with two systems.
Northward Acoustics (sterling sound studio) sees its customers asking for a bass boost of 6 or 7 dB centered on 40 Hz for their hearing comfort
Lot of studios use only hifi speakers.
The control is made by the client.

 

[Sharur]

This guy was attempting to lecture me on my DT880 600 Ω being broken or me listening at dangerous listening levels when I told him I was able to get them to audibly distort. He even went on to claim that he listens at 70 dB on average. This is hilarious because an Apple Dongle can easily drive the DT880 600 Ω to those levels. In his video on the Topping L30, he claimed that it could not get them very loud, which is strange considering the max SPL is 40 dB above his "average".

As someone who was once tricked by this guy, it's honestly sad that these are the kind of reviewers people new to the hobby are directed to first.

 

[Maki]

This guy was attempting to lecture me on my DT880 600 Ω being broken or me listening at dangerous listening levels when I told him I was able to get them to audibly distort. He even went on to claim that he listens at 70 dB on average. This is hilarious because an Apple Dongle can easily drive the DT880 600 Ω to those levels. In his video on the Topping L30, he claimed that it could not get them very loud, which is strange considering the max SPL is 40 dB above his "average".

As someone who was once tricked by this guy, it's honestly sad that these are the kind of reviewers people new to the hobby are directed to first.

Kino

 

[Cote Dazur]

In the video, it is mentioned that the DB meter app in our phone are not accurate for all kind of reasons and that make perfect sense to me. Also mentionned is that readings from those device show at much lower than if measured with an accurate device, like the one used for the AES paper.

Never the less, most of us, me in particular, has nothing else to measure and are not going to invest and tinker with something more elaborate.

In that scenario, @amirm , what level readings, using DBa weighting, would you say is safe, either average and or peak reading, measuring from where we listen, when listening at home?
Is there some apps that are more accurate?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

In the video, it is mentioned that the DB meter app in our phone are not accurate for all kind of reasons and that make perfect sense to me. Also mentionned is that readings from those device show at much lower than if measured with an accurate device, like the one used for the AES paper.

Never the less, most of us, me in particular, has nothing else to measure and are not going to invest and tinker with something more elaborate.

In that scenario, @amirm , what level readings, using DBa weighting, would you say is safe, either average and or peak reading, measuring from where we listen, when listening at home?
Is there some apps that are more accurate?

For most cases at home the phone mic and apps are good enough. If you roughly wanna see how loud it plays it does a good job. Not for precise leveling though, but for this a multimeter measuring the voltage is the better approach anyway.
So it depends what your application is, if it is good enough

 

[Cote Dazur]

For most cases at home the phone mic and apps are good enough

All I need is to check the sound level when I listen for 2 reasons

1. Sometime after a while I am afraid I end up getting the volume higher and higher and I listen too loud, as I believe my ears adapt to the high level and since I do not have much, if any, distortion at high level, it is hard to judge. Ususaly when I start to feel the bass in my seat is the sign it is time to lower down the sound, but seeing the level on an app will help me more.
2. If my wife is resting upstairs, monitoring the level help in keeping a level that will not transmit sound trough the walls and disturb her. lower than 70dba peak, usually does the trick in keeping it low enough but still have something interesting to listen to.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

All I need is to check the sound level when I listen for 2 reasons

1. Sometime after a while I am afraid I end up getting the volume higher and higher and I listen too loud, as I believe my ears adapt to the high level and since I do not have much, if any, distortion at high level, it is hard to judge. Ususaly when I start to feel the bass in my seat is the sign it is time to lower down the sound, but seeing the level on an app will help me more.
2. If my wife is resting upstairs, monitoring the level help in keeping a level that will not transmit sound trough the walls and disturb her. lower than 70dba peak, usually does the trick in keeping it low enough but still have something interesting to listen to.

For this, don’t even think twice. Go with the app.

 

[My adventures in stereo]

This video was a revelation, it answered a lot of questions, which were in the back of my mind but had not put in to words yet
The Harman curve makes sense now, I was trying to fix my dirac curve, so that the bass frequencies & the mains were at the same level
aargh, this should be mandatory knowledge for any audio enthusiast !!

 

[My adventures in stereo]

Adding how a dbc curve fits in to this would be a welcome addition

 

[JimWeir]

Adding how a dbc curve fits in to this would be a welcome addition

You can check this out. Forget dBC. The the dynamics of music can force your amp to clip.

 

[My adventures in stereo]

You can check this out. Forget dBC. The the dynamics of music can force your amp to clip

Thanks for the link and great explanation
Loved the music mentioned in the video, Flim and the BB's, great dynamic range recordings

 

[dasdoing]

You can check this out. Forget dBC. The the dynamics of music can force your amp to clip.

meaning that it can't be reproduced loudly on 99% of home users lol
btw, Youtube wont bring up too quiet tracks, so this should be accurate:

 

[gnarly]

You can check this out. Forget dBC. The the dynamics of music can force your amp to clip.

Thank you JimWeir, good vid that could help many.

meaning that it can't be reproduced loudly on 99% of home users lol
btw, Youtube wont bring up too quiet tracks, so this should be accurate:

Thx for the TriCycle link dasdoing, and i share your assessment that 99% of home users could not listen to that track loudly without clipping

I recently learned that REW's LzPeak meter captures the highest peak sample....and therefore has no time integration period. Faster than "Fast" lol.
First chance, I'm going to measure TriCycle listening loudly. Lz Peak and Average.
I'm certain I won't hit any clipping....just want to see the acoustic SPL numbers for myself.

 

[dasdoing]

I recently learned that REW's LzPeak meter captures the highest peak sample....and therefore has no time integration period. Faster than "Fast" lol.
First chance, I'm going to measure TriCycle listening loudly. Lz Peak and Average.
I'm certain I won't hit any clipping....just want to see the acoustic SPL numbers for myself.

can this really capture all peaks with a normal meassurment mic?
would love to test this too, with volume set to "party". my PA-speakers peak at 126 dB (Z) before clipping

 

[gnarly]

can this really capture all peaks with a normal meassurment mic?
would love to test this too, with volume set to "party". my PA-speakers peak at 126 dB (Z) before clipping

Yes ! Unless I'm missing something......
Here's the answer I got from John M when i asked how it works.... https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/spl-meter-lzpeak-question.10564/


Big thing i found using LzPeak, is to get mic level calibrated to a level that has enough headroom.

 

[dasdoing]

Yes ! Unless I'm missing something......
Here's the answer I got from John M when i asked how it works.... https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/spl-meter-lzpeak-question.10564/


Big thing i found using LzPeak, is to get mic level calibrated to a level that has enough headroom.

the question is if the mics are capable of registring the peaks without any mecanical compression