What volume level do you use for classical music? Loud or quiet? What are your opinions regarding relaxation and volume?

[kemmler3D]

Right, but classical music has such wide dynamic range. Even small ensembles. You should be able to hear occasional incidental noises from the musicians moving & breathing, as you can when sitting in the first few rows. And their quietest PPP passages may be around that level, so you want to be able to hear them. Yet this puts the crescendos close to 90 dB SPL, plus or minus. That won't cause discomfort or hearing damage because they are so brief with average levels a good 20 dB quieter. The point is, dynamics are part of the music and its artistic expression. Not just the wide overall range (macro-dynamics), but dynamic subtleties of technique (micro-dynamics). They should not be squashed!

Agree, for proper listening. For background listening I think we naturally just don't want anything popping up at 90dB or anywhere close.

 

[Robin L]

I commented earlier saying I think it ought to be loud... later found myself listening to a bunch of Jordi Savall stuff at a pretty quiet level while I worked. There is something to the "quiet, relaxing" thing.

Right now, I'm listening to the Jordi Savall/Hesperion XX recording of François Couperin's "Les Nations". This recording should not be played loud. The audio suggests that the microphone positioning was relatively far back in a reverberant room, so one would not expect the sound to be loud.

 

[MRC01]

Some music doesn't have big dynamic range - it has micro-dynamics but not macro-dynamics. And the instruments naturally sound quiet even when live. For example, this is from the liner notes of Jakob Lindberg's BIS recording of Dowland's solo lute music:

 

[Doodski]

Almost up to full smiley face

Yeah, I should back the levels down to a negative and positive combO rather than all positive. Keep the clipping away.

 

[Doodski]

I'm listening to this loudly and there are background claps, clacks and thumps that keep making me think somebody is in the room with me.

 

[Count Arthur]

 

[benanders]

Trying several different seats in an orchestral hall can be an eye ear-opener. Season tickets are great once you know your preferred area; they’re not all the same. IM(limited)E, front / center is louder and perhaps I can hear more “separation” of the nearer instruments with my untrained ears, but I prefer a more summed/reflective/overall sound from certain balcony/further-back seats. “Detail vs. size” in sound, if you will - good to learn your pref. Although even if that’s a transferable perception among people, I’m not sure how consequential it’ll be in adjusting the volume for in-home playback of stereo recorded classical.

My speakers “sound big,” the room helps (IMO), and classical on full throttle is still just a facsimile of live, despite the dynamics measuring comparably. Lower-than-live volume can work due to in-room proximity of speakers, vs. at a live orchestral hall, but for me can get boring. A big plus is that I don’t have to sit down at home - staying on my backside at a concert, I get antsy.
Movie soundtrack classical compositions can be great for [artificially] boosted bass similar to what’s in a lot of modern digital stuff if you find some compositions lacking. Zimmer and Djawadi are awesome for this, among others.

For the DR and/or the sleepy feel of quieter passages / compositions, I don’t perceive classical as a strong background music candidate. Ukulele x steel guitar Hawaiian, marimba-driven Exotica, or classic Bossa Nova fill that job description much better in my company
Caribbean steel drums and Zydeco are good, too. I guess my take home message is that all my background music has hot, humid origins.

 

[Sonic icons]

I think one of the great things about classical music is it includes so many sizes and types of ensembles you can find pieces suitable for any use or occasion. Pretty much all classical has a wider dynamic range (SPL difference between the loudest and softest passages) than typical pop music. However, a lot of chamber music (for anywhere from 2 to 9 instruments) and works for string orchestra (self-explanatory) or chamber orchestra (about 1/3 as many players as a large symphony orchestra) has a moderate dynamic range suitable for background listening, if that's what you're looking for. The "strength" of the contribution of different instrument groups is also important in determining dynamic range: music dominated by woodwinds and strings with little or no brass + percussion tends to have lower range.

On ... the ... other ... hand ..., some of the greatest music for full symphony orchestra was written with large to extreme dynamic range, including passages with "all out" playing by brass and/or percussion instruments clearly intended to be heard at high volume, because the loud parts are essential to what the composer was trying to express. If you're not familiar with musical notation, you should know that there are distinctive marks in classical music to indicate five levels of "soft" starting with "very very very soft, barely audible" indicated by ppppp (in musical Italian that's "pianissississississimo") then pppp, ppp, pp, and finally just p, meaning moderately soft. On the loud side we've got f, ff, fff, and ffff ("fortissississimo"). There's no fffff, perhaps because classical music lovers should have the chance to hear MORE THAN ONE loud piece, if you get my meaning. (Hearing loss is a serious concern for members of large orchestras - many musicians nowadays use hearing protection. More surprisingly, violinists who play exclusively in small ensembles can suffer occupational hearing loss - that's because the violin is held close to the player's ear, and contrary to the belief of some, the human ear is most susceptible to damage from high frequencies 1 to 5 kHz, not bass.)

I'm betting the readers of this thread would like an example of the high dynamic range side of classical music. I've chosen the Symphony No 4 in C minor by Dmitri Shostakovich, in a 2014 performance by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra led by Andris Nelsons. This conductor recently recorded a complete set of Shostakovich symphonies (1 through 15) with the Boston Symphony. Keep in mind that extremes of contrast, not just the loud parts, are essential to the musical expression, listen carefully to what happens in the quiet passages too. Both audio and video quality are high (considering it's Youtube), so watching the musicians is enjoyable.

 

[Doodski]

I think one of the great things about classical music is it includes so many sizes and types of ensembles you can find pieces suitable for any use or occasion. Pretty much all classical has a wider dynamic range (SPL difference between the loudest and softest passages) than typical pop music. However, a lot of chamber music (for anywhere from 2 to 9 instruments) and works for string orchestra (self-explanatory) or chamber orchestra (about 1/3 as many players as a large symphony orchestra) has a moderate dynamic range suitable for background listening, if that's what you're looking for. The "strength" of the contribution of different instrument groups is also important in determining dynamic range: music dominated by woodwinds and strings with little or no brass + percussion tends to have lower range.

On ... the ... other ... hand ..., some of the greatest music for full symphony orchestra was written with large to extreme dynamic range, including passages with "all out" playing by brass and/or percussion instruments clearly intended to be heard at high volume, because the loud parts are essential to what the composer was trying to express. If you're not familiar with musical notation, you should know that there are distinctive marks in classical music to indicate five levels of "soft" starting with "very very very soft, barely audible" indicated by ppppp (in musical Italian that's "pianissississississimo") then pppp, ppp, pp, and finally just p, meaning moderately soft. On the loud side we've got f, ff, fff, and ffff ("fortissississimo"). There's no fffff, perhaps because classical music lovers should have the chance to hear MORE THAN ONE loud piece, if you get my meaning. (Hearing loss is a serious concern for members of large orchestras - many musicians nowadays use hearing protection. More surprisingly, violinists who play exclusively in small ensembles can suffer occupational hearing loss - that's because the violin is held close to the player's ear, and contrary to the belief of some, the human ear is most susceptible to damage from high frequencies 1 to 5 kHz, not bass.)

I'm betting the readers of this thread would like an example of the high dynamic range side of classical music. I've chosen the Symphony No 4 in C minor by Dmitri Shostakovich, in a 2014 performance by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra led by Andris Nelsons. This conductor recently recorded a complete set of Shostakovich symphonies (1 through 15) with the Boston Symphony. Keep in mind that extremes of contrast, not just the loud parts, are essential to the musical expression, listen carefully to what happens in the quiet passages too. Both audio and video quality are high (considering it's Youtube), so watching the musicians is enjoyable.

Thank you for taking the time out and composing such a organized and detailed comment. I learned a bunch from your commentary. I am presently listening to your YouTube video recommendation in it's entirety.

 

[rdenney]

Most of the time, no. There's some music that deploys pipe organ. The Saint-Saens Symphony #3 has a number of passages where the organ kicks in, there's a sequence where only pedals are being used, so there's no overtones, just deep, deep bass. And there's plenty of Baroque organ using the pedals. While the piano can go as deep as 27 hz, it rarely does. Double bass goes down to 40 hz. I find that most classical music sounds fine on gear that is somewhat limited in the lower octaves, though deeper bass is always better anyway. By way of example, most classical music sounds good via my Drop 6XX, without EQ.

I think you should look at the spectrum of those pedal basso diapason pipes, or even the pedal flutes where they exist. There is LOTS of harmonic content in those sounds. Pure sine waves even below 60 or 70 Hz are very weak-sounding even when loud.

Tuba music gets down into the 30's from time to time in orchestral music, but again there is lots of harmonic content spaced at nice intervals to create the fundamental difference tone for the listener.

String-bass music doesn't have as much harmonic content, even though there is still a lot, and it takes a lot of string bass players to make much sound at the low end of the range (and I think a string bass can get down to a nominal 32-Hz C with a C extension, but that's a distant memory).

Probably the lowest continuous sound in an orchestra is a bass-drum roll played with a soft beater. An orchestral bass drum is very much larger than the bass drum in a set as used in rock, jazz, and pop, and rumbles at much lower frequencies. It's not tuned like the timpani so the sound will be more of a rumble and less of a tone..

If you want power in the bass region just for funsies, the timpani solo in the Shostakovich 5th Sympbony should exercise the woofers enough to see if they are working.

Rick "or the bass drum in the Holst Suite for Band (#1, third movement?--I forget), the definitive recording of which is the Cleveland Symphonic Winds under Fennell" Denney

 

[Petronius]

Colleagues I'd like to weigh in but first a bit about me,
Classically educated musician, (composition and trombone performance )
Worked in retail and commercial (pro ) audio,
Was an independent producer and or 'host" on several classical format radio stations,
I don't do background listening. You're either listening or you're not
Sold wine and beer to earn enough to live on
Cranky

Our late colleague John Eargle who among other things was the chief recording engineer for the Seattle Symphony told me that he designed his recordings
for the listener who listened at concert hall level. To do other wise was doing simply not giving fidelity to the important aspect of dynamic range in music.
So as stated in the brass cheer, "Higher Faster Louder, Bruckner, Strauss and Mahler.

 

[Titurel]

For Richard Strauss et al., I expect occasional peaks in the low to mid 80s db range at my seating position. This supports a bit under 50db of dynamic range above my room's noise floor. For earlier, less athletic works (plus opera and jazz) I shoot for lower levels still, with 80db peaks being rare. N.b., the preceding targets are based on A weighted readings from a not particularly fast Triplett meter. Momentary peaks are likely not registered and low bass contributions are under-represented. Clearly, things like the last 5 minutes of Mahler's 2nd Symphony contain low sonics not fully accounted for in my estimates.

 

[Titurel]

Our late colleague John Eargle who among other things was the chief recording engineer for the Seattle Symphony told me that he designed his recordings
for the listener who listened at concert hall level.

I've always liked the notion of listening at concert hall levels, but was never quite sure where in the concert hall to plunk down my chair. Often as not, I was seated the wrong side of the conductor. (I still have a talent for getting on the wrong side of people.) If you studied trombone and comp. with the same teacher, it's just possible I knew him.

 

[Keith_W]

Have you considered that people choose their listening volume depending on the noise floor? My house is really quiet, but it does get noisier during the day. So if I listen during the day, I typically listen louder, about 80dB or so. At night, playing that loud seems intrusive. so I typically listen about 70dB or even less.

 

[Petronius]

Have you considered that people choose their listening volume depending on the noise floor? My house is really quiet, but it does get noisier during the day. So if I listen during the day, I typically listen louder, about 80dB or so. At night, playing that loud seems intrusive. so I typically listen about 70dB or even less.

It has been my experience that sitting as close to 10th row center as I can, that a large ensemble can get far louder than 80dB. More like 105 or so with the 3 composers mentioned. I used to carry around an el-cheapo Radio Shack spl meter to measure the level, which for some reason would embarass my beloved spouse.

 

[Titurel]

It has been my experience that sitting as close to 10th row center as I can, that a large ensemble can get far louder than 80dB. More like 105 or so with the 3 composers mentioned. I used to carry around an el-cheapo Radio Shack spl meter to measure the level, which for some reason would embarass my beloved spouse.

On those occasions when I sat or stood within a few feet of the conductor (i.e., on stage) I can't remember sound levels that high. On the other hand, in a small rehearsal hall during a drum and bugle corp rehearsal, I surely experienced such volumes and, when playing a DVD of "Blast!," I almost surely nudge the volume a bit higher than usual. Oh, and I expect many contemporary Broadway musicals approach dangerous sound levels, made all the more painful by their content.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I listen to a lot of classical music. I prefer chamber music and solo keyboard stuff but listen to some orchestral. The dynamic range of many orchestral pieces can make it hard to listen at a volume where the soft passages are distinct without cranking it up loud enough to disturb other people in the house. I do my best. My volume criterion is making the softest parts audible.

 

[Robin L]

I'm listening to Mendelssohn's Octet, performed by the Cleveland and Meliora quartets. Telacr CD-80142. There's a db meter app I can run on the computer. It says the peak is at 82 db with the average level between about 50 to 60 db. The volume is a little uncomfortable for me on the peaks. I'm about a meter from each speaker, the computer (and its built in microphone) is also about a meter from the two speakers.

 

[dasdoing]

personally, if there is a passage with a solo flute, for example, I want it to sound convincing. In the loud passages, I listen to the timpanis. they should sound like you would expect a big drum to sound in the specific acoustics you are hearing; impactful and when there is a crescendo it should be fully audible from the start. timpanis are underrated for there impact on the overall sound...at least for the styles I like.

 

[Petronius]

Colleagues,
I did a little research which is something I do when I don't know what I'm doing and.......I found that I was perhaps slightly incorrect on sound levels.
in one of my old college texts Dr. Donald Hall tells of measuring the sound level in of the Sacramento Symphony concert at one of the best seats
in the house. The dynamic range seldom strayed from 60 to 85 dB, with 90dB during peaks of ffff.
Dr. Hall further states that with other programs it could easily reach 100. He didn't say what the program was, (Mozart would be a good guess) but
my thesis still remains that given a dynamic spread of 50+dB, you need to turn it up to 100+ (peaks) and even if it is Mahler, during the quieter sections you are still looking at maybe 70dB.

Side bar, once during a performance of Bruckner's 4th we brass players could hardly wait to get to a watering hole to soothe our shattered lips.