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Monoprice HTP-1 Home Theater Processor Review

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No. Even with the volume control at 0 dBfs, volume is dependent on peak levels of the content measured in dbTP, crest factor of the content, bass management, EQ, room correction, amplifier input sensitivity, amplifier gain, speaker impedance, speaker sensitivity and distance of listener from the speaker.

Right, gotcha. I guess what I am trying to ask is, if Amir turns the volume to +9 on the volume control while feeding that 1kHz sine wave, does that equal 4 volts RMS coming out of the XLR outputs? I'm assuming 4 volts is enough to drive the majority of amps to full rated power output.
 

HighImpactAV

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Does the volume control go above 0? If so, what is the maximum? My StormAudio processor has 0 dB as the maximum volume level.
 
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Does the volume control go above 0? If so, what is the maximum? My StormAudio processor has 0 dB as the maximum volume level.

Not sure. I don't own this product. I do know that you can customize your max volume ceiling and that it's default setting is 0dB. I don't know if it allows you to input a number higher than 0, though.
 

Tip

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Not sure. I don't own this product. I do know that you can customize your max volume ceiling and that it's default setting is 0dB. I don't know if it allows you to input a number higher than 0, though.
Essentially you're both right. There are some digital processors that allow the maximum output level go above 0 dB, but this really is meant to be used for sources that have a very low output. For example, if you have a 24-bit ADC that has a 2 Vrms input range and an analog source (e.g. a phono pre-amp and cartridge) that has a maximum output of 0.5 Vrms, you could increase the processor's output level so that the bits out of the ADC are shifted into the "significant bit" range of the processor. It won't sound very good, but at least you can hear it. I have a processor with a setting that can be configured for +6, +12, or +18 dB of "digital gain." But it is preferable to use the proper gain structure for the input, which is why I have a Benchmark ADC1 with its variable gain controls for analog inputs used with this processor.

Of course, there is no way to represent a digital sample above 0 dBFS, which is the highest number (in magnitude) that a digital sample can go. And in most processors, it represents digital clipping when two or more samples at 0 dB occur in a row. But you can have samples below 0 dB (down to almost -3 dB) on either side of a value that would have clipped at a higher sample rate and still have clipping because the digital filter will reconstruct the analog output at a level that clips. This is known as inter-sample clipping and some processors, such as those made by Lyngdorf and Benchmark, reduce the digital input by 3 dB to avoid it (since they can't go back in time to the mastering engineer and slap him upside the head and say, "Don't do that!" :facepalm:)

I would assume that if there is a processor that has a volume control that goes above "0 dB," the gain is performed in the analog domain.
 

Vasr

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This is known as inter-sample clipping and some processors, such as those made by Lyngdorf and Benchmark, reduce the digital input by 3 dB to avoid it (since they can't go back in time to the mastering engineer and slap him upside the head and say, "Don't do that!" :facepalm:)

I would assume that if there is a processor that has a volume control that goes above "0 dB," the gain is performed in the analog domain.

It is not just the mastering engineers on the sources that downstream DACs/processors have to worry about, there are also all the audio warriors these days with their miniDSPs and whatever eq digital processors they can throw at it, boosting or upping digital gain, etc., that will happily supply digitally clipped or close to digital clipping content to the downstream DACs/processors.
 

TimoJ

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Does the volume control go above 0? If so, what is the maximum? My StormAudio processor has 0 dB as the maximum volume level.
You can set the upper (and lower) limit, it can go to +22dB. And you can set the maximum output voltage. So you can have, for example, 0dB and 2V or 0dB and 4V etc.
 
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You can set the upper (and lower) limit, it can go to +22dB. And you can set the maximum output voltage. So you can have, for example, 0dB and 2V or 0dB and 4V etc.

+22? Wow, what would the voltage be on the XLR outputs on that? What would the SINAD and distortion be? I'm also not sure how many speakers and amps in the world that can play that loud cleanly.
 

TimoJ

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+22? Wow, what would the voltage be on the XLR outputs on that? What would the SINAD and distortion be? I'm also not sure how many speakers and amps in the world that can play that loud cleanly.
No matter where the dB scale goes, max clean output voltage is around 4V. So it would just clip badly. The dB scale is just relative value, it's not calibrated to any reference voltage.
 
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No matter where the dB scale goes, max clean output voltage is around 4V. So it would just clip badly. The dB scale is just relative value, it's not calibrated to any reference voltage.

So in other words, 0dB volume level on the Monoprice HTP-1 is not the same loudness as on another processor at 0dB, assuming they both use XLR output?
 

yourmando

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Does anyone know the number of fir taps per channel are available in the HTP-1? (Or an estimate based on the resolution of correction?)

According to @mitchco, it looks like pretty much all pre pro hardware is severely limited in taps, which affects the ability to correct bass the most.

Or is this a confirmed non-issue because Dirac uses mostly IIR filters for bass?

It would odd if one upgraded with the full Dirac Live Bass Control but could only correct a couple of frequency issues in the low bass area!

Nice review @amirm The number one issue I have with (all) H/W solutions like this is the limited number of FIR filter taps to actually provide real low frequency room correction. Whether it is Audyssey, miniDSP, Trinnov, DEQX, or other H/W processors they all suffer from the same issue - not enough FIR filter taps below 100 Hz to really be called room correction.

As a maths example, the miniDSP 2x4 HD product datasheet talks about 4096 taps. But this is the total number. For 4 channels you have 1024 taps each channel available. The frequency resolution of a 1024 taps filter @ 48 kHz samplerate is 48000/1024 = 46.875 Hz. So e.g. below 100 Hz there are just 2 frequency bins at 46.875 and 93.75 Hz. This clearly means that you have no control over the lower frequency range.

As a graphic example, here is a Trinnov Altitude 16 versus Audiolense. Audiolense is a software based DSP/DRC product that is not limited by the number or FIR filter taps for low frequency control. In this case, Audiolense has generated a FIR filter with 65,536 taps, hosted in a software based convolution engine on a PC. We can clearly see the difference with the measured Trinnov correction on top and the measured Audiolense correction on the bottom using the same speakers same room, mic, etc:

View attachment 59916

Here is another example using Audiolense with a FIR filter length of 131,072‬ taps for the ultimate in low frequency control with 600ms of excessphase correction at 10 Hz:

View attachment 59917

Note that this measurement was taken at 9ft at the listening position using REW's default 500ms window and no smoothing. Meaning low frequency room reflections (i.e. standing waves, resonances) are getting into the measurement. But as one can see in the phase response, it follows the speakers minimum phase response, with no excessphase (i.e. no low frequency room reflections) disturbing the bass response. The result is crystal clear, even sounding bass response. To learn more, I wrote an article on the subject or one can hear my talk on it.

The point I am making is that not all DRC products are the same. Some have serious limitations on how much low frequency room correction can realistically be accomplished and folks should be aware of that.
 

markus

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Does anyone know the number of fir taps per channel are available in the HTP-1? (Or an estimate based on the resolution of correction?)

According to @mitchco, it looks like pretty much all pre pro hardware is severely limited in taps, which affects the ability to correct bass the most.

Or is this a confirmed non-issue because Dirac uses mostly IIR filters for bass?

It would odd if one upgraded with the full Dirac Live Bass Control but could only correct a couple of frequency issues in the low bass area!

Non-issue with the HTP-1. The PEQ section is IIR and DL does its proprietary thing anyway.

By the way, the lack of taps and subsequent coarse low frequency resolution can be mitigated by certain processing techniques. See Audyssey papers for inspiration.
 
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Krobar

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Does anyone know the number of fir taps per channel are available in the HTP-1? (Or an estimate based on the resolution of correction?)

According to @mitchco, it looks like pretty much all pre pro hardware is severely limited in taps, which affects the ability to correct bass the most.

Or is this a confirmed non-issue because Dirac uses mostly IIR filters for bass?

It would odd if one upgraded with the full Dirac Live Bass Control but could only correct a couple of frequency issues in the low bass area!

If you are feeling wealthy the Storm Mk2 claim to have more Dirac taps available than any other product but they are super expensive. DSP wise they are using a pair of the same same single DSP used in the HTP-1 so not surprising that they have more processing power to throw at it. Have no idea if that has any real world benefit.
 

yourmando

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Non-issue with the HTP-1. The PEQ section is IIR and DL does its proprietary thing anyway.

By the way, the lack of taps and subsequent coarse low frequency resolution can be mitigated by certain processing techniques. See Audyssey papers for inspiration.
That would make sense. I would think Dirac designers thought of this and is one reason for their mixed filter approach. Also, they need lower latency to work well with video and even games.

Maybe @mitchco’s charts show more of a Trinnov limitation because it is clearly worse than the PC version w/ plenty of taps. As the DSP guy, I’d love to see him do a head to head of the main DSPs on hardware vs PC. He has seen state of the art results already from Dirac on PC.
 

yourmando

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If you are feeling wealthy the Storm Mk2 claim to have more Dirac taps available than any other product but they are super expensive. DSP wise they are using a pair of the same same single DSP used in the HTP-1 so not surprising that they have more processing power to throw at it. Have no idea if that has any real world benefit.
Having 2 of the DSP units vs the 1 in the HTP-1 would make sense because the MK2 has 32 pre outs vs 16 on the HTP-1. Would be cool if it could apply extra taps from unused channels. Yeah, would have to be mind blowing better to justify that many times multiplied price!
 

krizvi786

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So what is the consensus on this monoprice processor? Any good ? I mean in terms of sound, not necessarily sinad. Would appreciate any comments. I am coming from avm 60.

thanks
 

Vasr

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So what is the consensus on this monoprice processor? Any good ? I mean in terms of sound, not necessarily sinad. Would appreciate any comments. I am coming from avm 60.

thanks

To have a consensus opinion on this site the equipment would need to be in the top 3 of the SINAD chart. ;)

My take.

Pros:
Very good value amongst pre/pros with recent codecs
The cheapest way to get a working Dirac on a pre-pro
Built by a reputable company (ATI)
All balanced outputs
Wouldn't sound any different from other pre/pros outside of the audible effects of Dirac+Balanced
Matches other Monoprice high-end components in look and compatibility but not limited to them
Cons:
Loses out in value to buying high-end mass-market AVR with similar pre/pro features but also with amps
Not a bragging rights brand name (which might make people overlook not having a physical remote unlike a NAD, for example)
Long-term support and parts availability unknown and unpredictable.
External build quality not the greatest at this price range
Needs a pretty large real estate in the HiFi console to accommodate this with the necessary amp(s). <- My showstopper reason
No HDMI 2.1 for future-proofing (a negative unless this price range is in the disposable category in your budget).
Not a good value unless utilizing most of the channels for a true home-theater full complement speaker system (like buying rugged SUVs that never go outside of urban roads). This is true of any huge multi-channel system.

The same thing branded under Lexicon, Anthem, Arcam, or NAD, etc., would have received a much more favorable attention, media reviews and buzz. That is the reality of this business.
 

krizvi786

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Thank you very much.
The hdmi board is upgradable to 2.1 apparently.

tough decision on this one . I have monoprice amp already and like it with avm 60. I might just need to do an in home trial.
 

markus

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Dimifoot

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