Monolith 10 vs. Hsu VTF-2 MK5 vs. Rythmik LV12F

[raistlin65]

Great choice. Now you can feel the difference between the sealed vs ported and decide which is better for your setup.

Next, I would look at de-coupling the sub from the floor, since a lot of energy is transferred directly from the sub to the floor (and to your neighbors).
Lots of information online, here's a thread to get started.

Claims about the benefits of isolation pads are largely anecdotal sighted testing.

You'll want to read the last link posted to that thread you shared: https://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm

I have not seent objective data that supports the claims that isolation has the amazing improvements for subs that people claim.

As Winer points out, most sound wave travels through the air. So at best, the isolation pads reduce cabinet resonance transfer into the floor. Which certainly could be noticeable with a budget sub. But those SVS subs are unlikely to have much cabinet resonance.

 

[Vasr]

Has anyone worked out a remote click solution to switch between using a sealed sub and a ported sub depending on content being played? Serious question.

 

[kevindd992002]

RSL Speedwoofer 10s is basically 1 to 1 with SB-2000 in terms of performance, so you won't feel a difference if you had both.
But PB-2000 can play 11.7dB louder at 20hz (from Wirecutter CEA2010A data) than SB-2000.
PB-2000 is also rated for 'Large' rooms.


Great choice. Now you can feel the difference between the sealed vs ported and decide which is better for your setup.

Next, I would look at de-coupling the sub from the floor, since a lot of energy is transferred directly from the sub to the floor (and to your neighbors).
Lots of information online, here's a thread to get started.

Do you agree that the SB-2000 would have a better resale value than the Speedwoofer 10S though? From what I'm reading, people tend to recommend the SB-2000 more than the RSL because of a couple of things. Looks is one and size is another because we're comparing sealed (SB-2000) vs. ported (Speedwoofer 10S). Also, the SVS support is just amazing. I spoke with them through chat and you could immediately tell how good they are.

I did buy both SB- and PB-2000 but I wouldn't want to open both because I will sell one as brand new. So I won't get the chance to test and compare both. If I go with the PB-2000, can I fine tune it to more or less have the same characteristic as the SB-2000 and still have that "room for adjustment" in case I move to a bigger house in the future?

Claims about the benefits of isolation pads are largely anecdotal sighted testing.

You'll want to read the last link posted to that thread you shared: https://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm

I have not seent objective data that supports the claims that isolation has the amazing improvements for subs that people claim.

As Winer points out, most sound wave travels through the air. So at best, the isolation pads reduce cabinet resonance transfer into the floor. Which certainly could be noticeable with a budget sub. But those SVS subs are unlikely to have much cabinet resonance.

And to think that I bought those SVS isolation rubber feet together with my speaker purchases. Was that a wrong decision?

 

[raistlin65]

Do you agree that the SB-2000 would have a better resale value than the Speedwoofer 10S though? From what I'm reading, people tend to recommend the SB-2000 more than the RSL because of a couple of things. Looks is one and size is another because we're comparing sealed (SB-2000) vs. ported (Speedwoofer 10S). Also, the SVS support is just amazing. I spoke with them through chat and you could immediately tell how good they are.

I did buy both SB- and PB-2000 but I wouldn't want to open both because I will sell one as brand new. So I won't get the chance to test and compare both. If I go with the PB-2000, can I fine tune it to more or less have the same characteristic as the SB-2000 and still have that "room for adjustment" in case I move to a bigger house in the future?

SVS should have much more brand name recognition then RSL, so should be easier to sell.

PB-2000 is a much larger sub than the SB-2000. The driver may be different. I believe you can plug the port, which will give it characteristics more similar to a sealed sub. Check what SVS says about that.

However, since it is significantly larger in size, plugging the port is not going to make it perform exactly the same as the SB-2000.

Personally, I would take both out of the box and try them. Sell the one that you don't keep as new, but taken out of the box to be tested to make sure it's working properly. After all, it has just been shipped halfway around the world. Some people might prefer to know that it's working.

And to think that I bought those SVS isolation rubber feet together with my speaker purchases. Was that a wrong decision?

Depends on what your expectations were for them.

 

[kevindd992002]

SVS should have much more brand name recognition then RSL, so should be easier to sell.

PB-2000 is a much larger sub than the SB-2000. The driver may be different. I believe you can plug the port, which will give it characteristics more similar to a sealed sub. Check what SVS says about that.

However, since it is significantly larger in size, plugging the port is not going to make it perform exactly the same as the SB-2000.

Personally, I would take both out of the box and try them. Sell the one that you don't keep as new, but taken out of the box to be tested to make sure it's working properly. After all, it has just been shipped halfway around the world. Some people might prefer to know that it's working.



Depends on what your expectations were for them.

Ok. Well, some people here still want to buy something that's sealed and then test it on the spot when buying them. I'll see what I can do.

The SVS subs that I bought are already on the way to my freight forwarder but I'm contemplating if I should return the SB-2000 and just get one RSL Speedwoofer 10S for now. You said the SB-2000 is considered a better sub than the RSL, why?

As for the isolation feet, my expectations for them is to reduce vibrations transmitted from the sub to the floor and eventually to my neighboring condo unit. I did my research and it seems that there's a lot of mix responses regarding this topic. For $50 for a 4-pack, they are expensive. So if those will be useless, I might as well have them returned. What do you think?

 

[kevindd992002]

And to make the choices even more difficult, would a PB1000 be a better choice than an SB2000?

 

[raistlin65]

The SVS subs that I bought are already on the way to my freight forwarder but I'm contemplating if I should return the SB-2000 and just get one RSL Speedwoofer 10S for now. You said the SB-2000 is considered a better sub than the RSL, why?

Because the SB12-NSD, when it sold for $400, was considered a better sub by sub enthusiasts, and it is the predecessor of the SB-2000. You might want to read this review of it: https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/svs-sb12-nsd-introduction

And here is their review of the SB-2000 https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sv-sound-svs-sb-pb-2000

I would stick with the SB-2000.

As for the isolation feet, my expectations for them is to reduce vibrations transmitted from the sub to the floor and eventually to my neighboring condo unit. I did my research and it seems that there's a lot of mix responses regarding this topic. For $50 for a 4-pack, they are expensive. So if those will be useless, I might as well have them returned. What do you think?

Not sure what you mean. I already explained about the isolation feet in my previous comment.

I would strongly recommend reading the conclusion section of the Winer article: https://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm. If there's something you don't understand, I would be happy to explain it.

 

[kevindd992002]

Because the SB12-NSD, when it sold for $400, was considered a better sub by sub enthusiasts, and it is the predecessor of the SB-2000. You might want to read this review of it: https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/svs-sb12-nsd-introduction

And here is their review of the SB-2000 https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sv-sound-svs-sb-pb-2000

I would stick with the SB-2000.



Not sure what you mean. I already explained about the isolation feet in my previous comment.

I would strongly recommend reading the conclusion section of the Winer article: https://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm. If there's something you don't understand, I would be happy to explain it.

Gotcha.

Well, I just read it and it seems to me that he's saying that raising any speaker off of the floor affects the frequency response of that speaker. I didn't see anything about deep bass sound travel though.

 

[raistlin65]

Gotcha.

Well, I just read it and it seems to me that he's saying that raising any speaker off of the floor affects the frequency response of that speaker. I didn't see anything about deep bass sound travel though.

He addresses that with the paragraph about bass traps.

 

[kevindd992002]

He addresses that with the paragraph about bass traps.

Ok and if I'm interpreting the article correctly, he doesn't believe in using isolation feet because the sub cabinets don't really vibrate enough to transfer energy to the floor, correct? If so, would it hurt if I still install those feet?

Is the Rythmik L12 better than the SVS SB-2000? As for total prices shipped to California and tax included, here's what I have:

RSL Speedwoofer 10S - $429 (shipped, 7.25% tax)
SVS SB-2000 - $475 (shipped, tax refunded because I'm using a freight forwarder, and discounted by 5% more)
Rythmik L12 - $559 (shipped, no tax)

It looks these three are very close to each other in terms of performance. The only plus side with the RSL and Rythmik is that they are only 300W so less power consumption for the same performance. The Rythmik L12 is the smallest among the bunch, followed by the SVS SB-2000, and finally the RSL Speedwoofer 10S, although they're all relatively small in size.

 

[raistlin65]

Ok and if I'm interpreting the article correctly, he doesn't believe in using isolation feet because the sub cabinets don't really vibrate enough to transfer energy to the floor, correct? If so, would it hurt if I still install those feet?

Is the Rythmik L12 better than the SVS SB-2000? As for total prices shipped to California and tax included, here's what I have:

RSL Speedwoofer 10S - $429 (shipped, 7.25% tax)
SVS SB-2000 - $475 (shipped, tax refunded because I'm using a freight forwarder, and discounted by 5% more)
Rythmik L12 - $559 (shipped, no tax)

It looks these three are very close to each other in terms of performance. The only plus side with the RSL and Rythmik is that they are only 300W so less power consumption for the same performance. The Rythmik L12 is the smallest among the bunch, followed by the SVS SB-2000, and finally the RSL Speedwoofer 10S, although they're all relatively small in size.

You already placed your order. You are driving yourself crazy with buyer's remorse. Stick with what you got coming.

 

[kevindd992002]

You already placed your order. You are driving yourself crazy with buyer's remorse. Stick with what you got coming.

I know I'm overthinking things. It's just that I have the option of returning them and going with another sub if it makes sense. I don't mind the hassle as long as my decision is informed, if you know what I mean.

 

[kieran]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but it had a LOT of great info in it, so thanks to all who contributed.
The question I'd like to ask is, how and why did the HSU VTF-2 mk5 drop out of the conversation? It was part of the original post, but in the end everyone was just talking about the speedwoofer, the SVSs, and the Rythmik.
Is there something about the HSU that took it out of contention?
Asking because it's currently my top contender for a new sub, and just trying to decide if it's worth the extra cost compared to these others in this class.

 

[sweetchaos]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but it had a LOT of great info in it, so thanks to all who contributed.

You're welcome.

The question I'd like to ask is, how and why did the HSU VTF-2 mk5 drop out of the conversation?

I still use my HSU VTF-3 MK5 and enjoy it.
At the time of purchase, which was around 4 years ago, it was the best bang-for-buck, beating all other subs in it's price point simply because it was capable of hitting the "Extreme" room-size rating. I think the market changed since, so I can't whether it's true today. Until I look at the available options, anyway.

HSU is a transparent enough company to list CEA2010A data on their website. How many others do the same? I wish Rythmik did the same, since we have to rely on 3rd party measurements, which is clearly lacking for Rythmik right now. I hope Erin reviews them this year.

 

[zdqcoins]

Would you consider PB-2000 Pro a significant upgrade over the PB-2000 non-pro version for home theater use? I got a deal of pb-2000 non-pro version for around 500/ea. Does the pro version worth the extra $300?

 

[sweetchaos]

Would you consider PB-2000 Pro a significant upgrade over the PB-2000 non-pro version for home theater use? I got a deal of pb-2000 non-pro version for around 500/ea. Does the pro version worth the extra $300?

I'll tackle this one...

"PB-2000 Pro" was measured by Erin:

Spoiler

"PB-2000" was measured by Brent (Wirecutter):

Spoiler

3 problems with just looking at this:
- this is 1m (not 2m like Erin shows)
- this is this is peak (not RMS like Erin shows)
- the lower frequencies are on the right, not left (like Erin did)...so you'll have to enter into your own spreadsheet just to tell
Overall, you would have to subtract 9dB from all these values, just to get to the same comparison as Erin.

Here's what you get when you do that: (my own spreadsheet, of course)

Spoiler

Observations:
1. the pro version can hit and pass 16hz test, capable of playing at 93.22dB, so obviously a generational improvement over the non-pro version. is it a big improvement? Well, not really, since 16hz is about 12dB down from 20hz test.
2. at 20hz, they're very close (105dB for pro) and (103dB for non-pro)
3. at higher frequencies than 20hz... say at 25hz, the pro version leads (111dB vs 107dB on non-pro) and so on...

Is all that difference worth the price difference? You tell me. Each person has their own value judgement. You have the data to decide.
Are you going to be playing it at full volume? Then get the Pro, as it will play louder by +3dB approx.
Are you not going to be playing it at full volume? Then you won't notice much difference, and can save 37% (or $300) that way towards a second "PB-2000 non-pro" sub.

 

[kieran]

it will play louder by +3dB approx (which is 2x as loud).

Uh... no not really. I know I'm the new guy here, but +3dB is 2x the power (aka acoustic energy), not necessarily 2x "as loud." Psychoacoustically, people tend to say something is 2x as loud at +10dB. And 2x the SPL (measured pressure) is +6dB.

 

[sweetchaos]

I misspoke.
An increase of +3dB needs 2x the amplifier power (not "perceived as 2x as loud").