Meyer Sound and imaging/soundstage

[Kain]

In Amir's Meyer Sound Amie review, he stated the following:

Note however that this is all with direct, on-axis response. Move to the left or right a few inches and highs drop right off. This also means that there are no spatial effects. With my eyes closed, the sound would come very focused form the speaker itself. Of course this is in mono. In stereo you would get a center image but I expect overall effect to be a smaller, more focused soundstage.

Source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/meyer-sound-amie-monitor-review.48281/

I wanted to know if this characteristic is consistent with other/higher-end Meyer Sound speakers as well (like the Bluehorn)? Meyer Sound speakers seem to have "simple" horns/waveguides and relatively narrow dispersion so I wanted to know if this is true throughout their speaker lineup. Would imaging, soundstage, and the capability of the speakers "disappearing" instead of sounding like the sound is "coming from the speakers" be relatively poor compared to the likes of, say, Genelec?

 

[dfuller]

I wanted to know if this characteristic is consistent with other/higher-end Meyer Sound speakers as well (like the Bluehorn)?

It's not so much a Meyer thing as it is a "narrow beamwidth" thing. Less reflected energy.

Big, wide baffle speakers can do this too, actually - reflections off the front baffle tend to anchor the image to the speakers pretty hard. It was pretty uncanny how the ATC SCM50ASLs I demoed sounded way narrower than the D&D 8Cs, in spite of the 8Cs having a much narrower beamwidth.

 

[Arindal]

In Amir's Meyer Sound Amie review, he stated the following:

What is described in the review regarding ´no spatial effects´ of ´focussed soundstage´, is not a characteristic of Meyersound nor of any other speaker. It is a characteristic of monaural reproduction with lesser degree of indirect sound in the listening room. If you listen to the same speaker in stereo, it will create a completely different image which cannot be predicted. Such a listening test simply does not many any sense.

´What happens in mono, stays in mono!´

Would imaging, soundstage, and the capability of the speakers "disappearing" instead of sounding like the sound is "coming from the speakers" be relatively poor compared to the likes of, say, Genelec?

As mentioned, there is no way to predict this from measurements and mono listening tests. It heavily relies on other factors such as tolerance between left and right speaker, evenness of phase and amplitude response within a given listening window and other factors. You have to try it.

What can be said is:

- this speaker´s relatively large distance between midrange and tweeter, combined with low x-over frequency, will make it prone to (vertical) localization errors
- this, plus the increasingly narrow dispersion pattern in the treble indicates a far-field monitor
- the most uncommon characteristics here is the uneven directivity pattern showing a huge step up in d.i. at 1.2K. ambience in the room might be compromised but it is difficult to predict, how exactly

The listening window is fairly narrow, but solely above 7K. This does not necessarily compromise the imaging, but might lead to angle-dependent colorations if you move your head listening to this speaker in mono or a nearfield arrangement. Both are therefore not recommended.

Meyer Sound speakers seem to have "simple" horns/waveguides and relatively narrow dispersion so I wanted to know if this is true throughout their speaker lineup.

Not really familiar with their studio lineup since the ´legendary´ X10 is no more, but sound reinforcement or pro cinema speakers seem not to show such behavior.

It's not so much a Meyer thing as it is a "narrow beamwidth" thing. Less reflected energy.

You can expect a huge amount of reflected energy, but it will be heavily colored, i.e. midrange-heavy and lacking treble. Would not call this less reflected energy.

 

[GXAlan]

I own the Amie’s that Amir tested and the Meyer X20, X23 and X40 which are more in line with the Bluehorn and Astrya in terms of degree of design generation/phase correction.

Spaciousness for music, where the reflections add ambience (which work great when the off axis matches the on axis) is one design goal. The Sonos Era 300 and Bose 901 are great standalone speakers.

Precision, which is needed for imaging, is contrary to the idea of spaciousness. In my experience, the phantom center you get from Meyer Sound is 100% precise and tight and even Dirac blurs rather than improved the imaging. With multichannel, it’s a whole different level. The speakers disappear but you only get what is in the recording.

But the presence of different horns for the X20/X22/X23 line captures different design intents.

The Emperor’s New Stereo

I was contacted a few months back by Jose Luis Diaz about an article I wrote for Mix magazine -in 1998. He asked did I have a copy of the original in pdf form. No. I am not the best archivist. :-(…

bobmccarthy.com

 

[Arindal]

Precision, which is needed for imaging, is contrary to the idea of spaciousness.

In studio terms, most recording engineers would most probably strive for having both at the same time or getting a fairly good compromise.

What would be interesting, though, is your subjective impression of ambience. Does the ´panorama of the reverb´ sound wide, deep and realistic, or are phantom sources ´hard panned´, dry, direct, appearing like little mono speakers?

 

[dfuller]

You can expect a huge amount of reflected energy, but it will be heavily colored, i.e. midrange-heavy and lacking treble. Would not call this less reflected energy.

Sorry, should have specified. Less reflected energy where we get spatial cues - i.e., primarily the presence region and up.

 

[Chrispy]

Just Meyer home use gear?

 

[Kain]

Thanks for the replies.

Will the Meyer Sound ULTRA-X line of speakers sound as "good" in a home theater setting when compared to Genelec studio monitors? The ULTRAs are PA speakers where the main goal is to go loud and clear whereas the Genelecs are studio monitors designed for flat and accurate sound reproduction.

 

[Arindal]

Will the Meyer Sound ULTRA-X line of speakers sound as "good" in a home theater setting when compared to Genelec studio monitors?

It is impossible to predict anything like sound quality differences between two completely different speaker concepts for different applications. Vastly depends on the room´s properties, listening distance, SPL and other factors.

the Genelecs are studio monitors designed for flat and accurate sound reproduction.

Which they definitely deliver in a pro-grade studio environment, not necessarily in living rooms or home cinemas.

 

[Kain]

Which they definitely deliver in a pro-grade studio environment, not necessarily in living rooms or home cinemas.

How does a pro-grade studio environment differ from a well-treated home theater/cinema/media room? Aren't they quite similar?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

How does a pro-grade studio environment differ from a well-treated home theater/cinema/media room? Aren't they quite similar?

A bit, but they are also quite different.

The control room is a work environment - people are coming in, going out. There's often a console which is a big multi-surface reflector. There may be a desk or sofa at the back. The operator(s) move around, left and right, backwards and forwards. There are often three separate speaker setups - main monitors, midfield monitors (closest to a domestic product) and bad sounding check speakers. The room treatment may be many inches deep and complex. There's often a large window into the recording space etc.

 

[Esprit]

Which they definitely deliver in a pro-grade studio environment, not necessarily in living rooms or home cinemas.

150 pages say the opposite…

Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelc 8361A studio monitor (powered active speaker). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $4,995. The 8361A looks identical to the rest of the series except massively scaled up: It doesn't look it but it is extremely heavy. It has a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Kain]

Also found this interesting post in the Amie review thread that briefly talks about the Bluehorn System and how it compares to others.

I am very familiar with Meyer speakers in a professional (live sound) context. They are a part of the “big 3” in my world (L’Acoustics, D&B Audiotechnik , and Meyer). Meyer is the leader in self powered active PA technology and their products have always been very impressive to me.

I scratched my head at their entrance into the studio/hifi market. This review further proves the point that they clearly know what they are doing in a general sneaker design context, but the value and performance is just not at the same level as the competition which has been dedicated to this field for decades. 8351a is in the same price bracket and is clearly objectively ahead.

I demoed their flagship BlueHorn system (not soffit mounted, fyi) awhile ago and was extremely impressed with the dynamics and tactile capabilities but in terms of obviously uncontrolled general subjective sound quality, I still rank Danley Hyperion > Genelec W371+8351b ≥ Kii 3+BXT over the bluehorn. Have yet to hear 8381 but assuming it would be the only real Hyperion competitor for “perfect” performance while still retaining huge dynamic capability.

Kudos to Meyer for at least releasing something decent. I expect the target market will be rental and production houses that use Meyer PA systems and need compact monitors for broadcast engineers and FOH purposes and want to stay in the same ecosystem.

Source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amie-monitor-review.48281/page-2#post-1731750

 

[smcc]

Thanks for the replies.

Will the Meyer Sound ULTRA-X line of speakers sound as "good" in a home theater setting when compared to Genelec studio monitors? The ULTRAs are PA speakers where the main goal is to go loud and clear whereas the Genelecs are studio monitors designed for flat and accurate sound reproduction.

Check out the measurements of the line, and Meyer’s 3D software is free. In terms of FR/dispersion/SPL, TBH the Ultra-X line looks pretty astounding…no THD/IMD measurements going that I’ve seen, though I would wager they’re pretty decent also…

Unless you need 110dB+ continuous…I would probably go with the Genelec though…

 

[GXAlan]

the Ultra-X line looks pretty astounding…no THD/IMD measurements going that I’ve seen,

https://meyersound.com/public/pdf/pp-ultra-x40.pdf

https://meyersound.com/public/pdf/pp-ultra-x20.pdf

As you can imagine, at normal SPLs, the distortion is that much lower.

 

[smcc]

https://meyersound.com/public/pdf/pp-ultra-x40.pdf

View attachment 445642

https://meyersound.com/public/pdf/pp-ultra-x20.pdf

View attachment 445643

As you can imagine, at normal SPLs, the distortion is that much lower.

Cheers for that.