Marantz Cinema 50 AVR Review

[Thomas_A]

Yes, and the unfiltered 60Hz AC Power hum and increasing floor @ higher Frequency shows those AVRs are not trend-leading ultra clean equipment like E1DA, Topping and etcs.

I hope Makers add some more signal cleanness to their products next time

We will probably never know what is class-leading AVR since those companies probably never will make an AVR with those features.

 

[Sokel]

Yes I was wondering if more power would improve them, I have a dynaco 410, 200 watts but I am betting it’s not as clear as the PA5, but I will test it again.

I'm sure more power will improve them as I'm sure it will improve all the listening experience.
You can yourself calculate what it needs to get the right peaks according to the graph above (the all-known "Hey Nineteen" song).

Note that the average is 75-85db(A) and the peaks go up to 109db(Z).
There's no substitute for power.

 

[Vacceo]

That's not true, the Cinema 50 comes with Audyssey room correction sofware too. The only extra is the $20 app. The mic looks cheap comparing to Anthem's, but the system works well with the app. As to which one is better, it is hard to say, there are pros and cons for both. The license cost is for Dirac Live, that is optional.

Hopefully once Dirac is avalible, there Will be no need to buy a different mic for calibration.

Yes, and the unfiltered 60Hz AC Power hum and increasing floor @ higher Frequency shows those AVRs are not trend-leading ultra clean equipment like E1DA, Topping and etcs.

I hope Makers add some more signal cleanness to their products next time

It has happened, and your words are a fairy expectation. The previous generation of Denon AVR's and Anthem's processors and AVR's show that it is possible to get to 100 or a bit more db SINAD. I understand that the presence of DSP's make it hard to reach Benchmark levels of transparency, but expecting assured CD quality is perfectly doable.

 

[Thomas_A]

Hopefully once Dirac is avalible, there Will be no need to buy a different mic for calibration.


It has happened, and your words are a fairy expectation. The previous generation of Denon AVR's and Anthem's processors and AVR's show that it is possible to get to 100 or a bit more db SINAD. I understand that the presence of DSP's make it hard to reach Benchmark levels of transparency, but expecting assured CD quality is perfectly doable.

> 100 SINAD with amp output?

 

[Vacceo]

> 100 SINAD with amp output?

If my memory is not mudded, Amir measured it on the previous Denon generation. It was 99 or 101, I can't remember exactly.

Edit: Yep, check out the Denon X8500h, but only on the processing. Amps get you 82 db SINAD. Still, with good external amps, you can get a close to transparent reproduction

 

[Thomas_A]

If my memory is not mudded, Amir measured it on the previous Denon generation. It was 99 or 101, I can't remember exactly.

Edit: Yep, check out the Denon X8500h

But not on amp output? The Marantz shows better than the Denon.

 

[peng]

Hopefully once Dirac is avalible, there Will be no need to buy a different mic for calibration.

That is an excellent point, D+M should make the "upgraded" mic such as the Umik-1/2 optional. If they do, then those who already paid for and own the more expensive calibrated Audyssey mic will be able to use it as well. Otherwise the total cost for the Dirac option will go up by another $100 or more. You should email D+M/SU/Masimo your idea.

 

[peng]

We will probably never know what is class-leading AVR since those companies probably never will make an AVR with those features.

Can you give a few examples of "those companies"? I can quickly think of Benchmark, Purifi but of all the amps, integrated amps, preamps measured by ASR, Audioholics, Stereophile, not that many measured better than even an entry level AVR-X3600H, and I would include not just amp output SINAD, but also other things measured by Amir.

 

[peng]

But not on amp output? The Marantz shows better than the Denon.

First of all, we can compare them and say which one is better without both tested by the same person, same bench on the same day using everything the same. Secondly, the "better", depending on which measurement you compare, even when done by two different operators, using different AP on different benches, would seem to be within 0.5 dB SINAD, that has no significance at all statistically speaking.

Without splitting hair though, I would say they are comparable and that's consistent with all the other Denon and Marantz AVRs measured on ASR, on amp output. That is not surprising either because those AVRs (except Denon's top 2 and the Marantz top models) shared the same power amp sections, right down to the rail voltages, bias voltages etc., in the past (say 2017-2019 for sure). It is possible that the 2022/23 D+M models no longer share the power amp sections but we don't know that.

 

[Thomas_A]

Can you give a few examples of "those companies"? I can quickly think of Benchmark, Purifi but of all the amps, integrated amps, preamps measured by ASR, Audioholics, Stereophile, not that many measured better than even an entry level AVR-X3600H, and I would include not just amp output SINAD, but also other things measured by Amir.

So how many AVRs? From Topping?

 

[peng]

So how many AVRs? From Topping?

Okay, now I know what you are referring to.

 

[peng]

Yes, it is! AMP out, L/R(Front, Single Ch driven : 8Ohm, 2Ohm, Both Ch driven 4 Ohm)

Thank you for taking your time to provide such valuable information. Do you own that AP? It is a very expensive test instrument to own for a hobbyist, I wish I had one lol..
If you do, then are you going to measure more gear for us ASR members? I suppose even if you don't mind doing the work, shipping costs back and forth is a problem, and you would need many friends who would be willing to ship you their gear, but I have to ask..

 

[Thomas_A]

Okay, now I know what you are referring to.

Yes, I answered to the comment regarding comparison of AVRs with stand-alone DACs. A fair comparison should be between existing AVRs.

 

[Martin]

So which of the companies or what 3rd part did the design job. Identical backsides....??

//

Denon and Marantz are part of Sound United. Their AVR lineups are the same units in different boxes. Same as Integra, Onkyo and Pioneer who are all owned by Premiun Audio Company. Look at the backs and internals and you'll see the are the same. Like how GM used to put different bodies on the same cars in the 70's and 80's and sold them as Buick, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac.

Martin

 

[Hipster Doofus]

I'm sure more power will improve them as I'm sure it will improve all the listening experience.
You can yourself calculate what it needs to get the right peaks according to the graph above (the all-known "Hey Nineteen" song).

Note that the average is 75-85db(A) and the peaks go up to 109db(Z).
There's no substitute for power.

Thank u , saw steely dan a few years ago

 

[Vacceo]

Yes, I answered to the comment regarding comparison of AVRs with stand-alone DACs. A fair comparison should be between existing AVRs.

For the AVM70 from Anthem we get a 99-100 db SINAD. It's a processor, but at least with the right amps you can get quite transparent.

I agree, however, that it should be the norm.

 

[Philipp Paul Klose]

LOL! I hope some day I can do that!

I dedicate this image to you~

View attachment 254740
JK

 

[Chrise36]

I hope I can do that in some way, but my Near-Empty-Can-Like-APx525 itself do not support multi Ch Output.
I/O of AP I'm using is really basic one. (In fact I can't even utilize 100% of its features. Myself is way far more basic than basic APx525)
So, I must be creative and learn about them more. And I'm still looking for a way.

But, even limited Ch data, that is still better than nothing!

If you feed the normal stereo signal and put the avr in multi channel stereo all amp channels will be fed and that is a normal use scenario of the avr. Good effort keep it going!

 

[Thomas_A]

For the AVM70 from Anthem we get a 99-100 db SINAD. It's a processor, but at least with the right amps you can get quite transparent.

I agree, however, that it should be the norm.

I don’t know the true SNR but with Marantz NR1506 the THD is less than -100 dB on pre out. So there are other cheaper units as well.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Nope. Dirac is no included and not even available yet for these new Denon/Marantz AVRs/AVPs.

Supposedly, the timeline looks like this:

• Dirac limited and full bandwidth versions AFTER the firmware update in March 2023
• Support for Bass Control upgrade although the integration efforts has not yet started. We expect we should be able to release a new firmware to support Dirac Live Bass Control upgrade sometime in 2024 - TBD

Dirac live will be an optional upgrade (upcharge). Once after firmware update in 2023 March, customers, either installers or DIY consumers, will need to go to dirac.com/denon or dirac.com/marantz to purchase a license key from Dirac to calibrate each AVR. Customers can purchase either a limited version or a full band-width. A MAC address will be needed. A license key for the limited version will cost $259 and the full-bandwidth version will cost $349. It will be possible to upgrade from the limited to the full-band width version at later stage with additional cost of $99. Dirac Live Bass Control Multi Subwoofer is currently $499.

When you add Direct fees, might as well buy an Anthem.