Marantz Cinema 50 AVR Review

[GXAlan]

My interpretation
Looking at this and the AVR-X3800H, it seems like the DAC downgrade from AKM hurts for people using preamp mode but the DAC is closely matched to the amplifier performance and the Model 50 has slightly better amplification than the X3800H.

 

[dogmamann]

No explanation is a good thing. Now the 'audiophile' folks wont be offended, as they wont understand a thang! At the same time for the people who need the info, its all there. I think if this is the norm, ASR wont hurt anyone!

 

[MCH]

From my limited understanding, I guess they are all measurements of the amps, right? Seems quite good for an avr, doesn't it?

 

[Sokel]

Not bad at all for an AVR.
(at least this one didn't exploded )
Good job!

 

[DSJR]

WANTED: SELF DRIVING STEREO

I usually use a Toppings PA 5 amp and a Gustard X16 Dac as required as an ASR devotee. (B&W 801 Matrix Speakers)
I own a RTA (and the required digital mic) Analyzer. Which I hardly use.
I own Linkwitz speakers with a mini DSP, another sophisticated device which scares me .

But when I hooked up my B&W’s to my Denon 960 with just the basic Audyssey system and the 20 dollar app which let me at least in theory copy the harman curve . I think it made an improvement. I still use the dac and stream from a decitated computer. There is some buzz if you put your ear close to the mid and tweeter. The PA 5 was dead quiet. But the smoothing of the response curve also made a big difference…so now I am thinking of the denon 3700 with pre outs to the PA5. And use the Audyssey xt32. All in the service of better sound VS better numbers. In other words when is good enough good enough. I often kid my techie friends who build tube preamps or even digital amps,from scratch. I kid them….if you want a different sound don’t change the components, just get a bass or treble knob.

Is frequency response equalization a tad more important then optimizing other numbers.

Am I wrong to want a self driving stereo and just enjoy the music…if I am please talk me off the ledge.

thanks

THE LAZY AUDIOPHILE

My retired mastering engineer pal inherited his room's original 801's when his record company were given a new batch of M801's and he used them on a Denon AV receiver with no difficulty at all (a good few years back but he still has and uses them). I'd suggest though from my own experience that they need a fair amount of power to get them moving *as they should* (hundreds rather than tens of Watts) and in his room at work, he had the largest HH VX stereo MOS-FET amp to drive them. Methinks some here expect far too much from that little Topping box which in reality only has an inaudible SINAD advantage and without looking it up, very modest amounts of power. Just sayin'

 

[milosz]

Maybe I missed seeing it, but since this is an AVR shouldn't there be some measurements from the HDMI input?

 

[Sokel]

WANTED: SELF DRIVING STEREO

I usually use a Toppings PA 5 amp and a Gustard X16 Dac as required as an ASR devotee. (B&W 801 Matrix Speakers)

PA 5 for 801???
Have tested them with up to 700W per channel amps (both AB and D class) and they seemed they could get even more!
This woofer alone is like begging for power (must be the only B&W I can tolerate more than half an hour).

 

[FrantzM]

WANTED: SELF DRIVING STEREO

I usually use a Toppings PA 5 amp and a Gustard X16 Dac as required as an ASR devotee. (B&W 801 Matrix Speakers)
I own a RTA (and the required digital mic) Analyzer. Which I hardly use.
I own Linkwitz speakers with a mini DSP, another sophisticated device which scares me .

But when I hooked up my B&W’s to my Denon 960 with just the basic Audyssey system and the 20 dollar app which let me at least in theory copy the harman curve . I think it made an improvement. I still use the dac and stream from a decitated computer. There is some buzz if you put your ear close to the mid and tweeter. The PA 5 was dead quiet. But the smoothing of the response curve also made a big difference…so now I am thinking of the denon 3700 with pre outs to the PA5. And use the Audyssey xt32. All in the service of better sound VS better numbers. In other words when is good enough good enough. I often kid my techie friends who build tube preamps or even digital amps,from scratch. I kid them….if you want a different sound don’t change the components, just get a bass or treble knob.

Is frequency response equalization a tad more important then optimizing other numbers.

Am I wrong to want a self driving stereo and just enjoy the music…if I am please talk me off the ledge.

thanks

THE LAZY AUDIOPHILE

I am with you. I have posited that any SINAD>75 dB is good enough, as I got trounced in the Klippel THD test, not faring better than -35dB or was it lower?
This said, we are not there yet into "self-driving" Audio system. We still need to work a lot to get great sound. It remains that DRC tools like Audyssey, properly applied will provide better audible results than superior SINAD alone.
A bit off-topics , I know: the Audyssey MultEQ-X is the real deal and shall, if properly used, take many audio system to a very high level, provided competent speakers. Dirac has a lot of good word-of-mouth but in the here and now, Audyssey MultEQ-X address subwoofers (as in plural), something that requires an (expensive?) add-on for DIRAC, the DLBC. MultEQ-X is also a flexible, if somewhat not intuitive. Effective and powerful. I tend to think it is as good (even better ) than Dirac and than many suspect it to be.
...

Happy New Year!
Peace.

P.S. Edited for clarification

 

[poopy]

Maybe I missed seeing it, but since this is an AVR shouldn't there be some measurements from the HDMI input?

Looks like the aim of this thread is just for someone to prove his capabilities to produce some graphics. The rest doesn't seem to be relevant...

 

[juliangst]

surprisingly good measurements.
If it came with Dirac Bass Control included I would consider it but the whole Bass Control package is like 800€ on top of the 2000€ the Cinema 50 costs here

 

[Biblob]

On the back it says "compatible with Dirac". Is it included with the AVR?

 

[juliangst]

On the back it says "compatible with Dirac". Is it included with the AVR?

From another post on the Cinema 50:

Marantz Cinema 40 & 50 Dirac Live 2023 March after firmware update (Phase 1)
- Limited Bandwith 259$
- Full Bandwith 349$

Dirac Live Bass Control - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Single sub 349$
- Multisub 499$

All-in-one package - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Full correction + single bass control 649$
- Full correction + multi sub bass control 799$

 

[Hipster Doofus]

PA 5 for 801???
Have tested them with up to 700W per channel amps (both AB and D class) and they seemed they could get even more!
This woofer alone is like begging for power (must be the only B&W I can tolerate more than half an hour).

Yes I was wondering if more power would improve them, I have a dynaco 410, 200 watts but I am betting it’s not as clear as the PA5, but I will test it again.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

My retired mastering engineer pal inherited his room's original 801's when his record company were given a new batch of M801's and he used them on a Denon AV receiver with no difficulty at all (a good few years back but he still has and uses them). I'd suggest though from my own experience that they need a fair amount of power to get them moving *as they should* (hundreds rather than tens of Watts) and in his room at work, he had the largest HH VX stereo MOS-FET amp to drive them. Methinks some here expect far too much from that little Topping box which in reality only has an inaudible SINAD advantage and without looking it up, very modest amounts of power. Just sayin'

Totally agree , but it plays loud enough with the 50 ish watts. But do we expect the same magic from watts as we do sinad….Oh the humanity…where is the balance LoL.

 

[pma]

We can see that the linearity at higher frequencies is getting worse.

Would it be possible to make a measurement of THD+N vs. level (power) at 6 kHz frequency? Anyway, congrats to a nice set of measurements!

And I completely agree with you that the measurement with 8 ohm load is pointless.

 

[Dmitri]

No! The test review needs explanations for each image. There are many people here that cannot understand the graphs and they need some information to help them identify the graph(s).

Thanks for your statements regarding comments needs on all graphs. As one who has difficulty getting my head around and retaining many of the concepts presented within, I really need that commentary in order to comprehend and appreciate the meaning. I’m not alone I’m sure, and likely one of many who are uncomfortable in asking the needed questions for understanding. The mission of this site is to educate and reinforce the value of objectively testing audio equipment. Having the method and meaning spelled out is extremely important, even if it seems redundant and unnecessary to those in the know.

thin bLue! …Not to negate or cast a shadow on your hard work! Thank you for your efforts!

 

[peng]

My interpretation
Looking at this and the AVR-X3800H, it seems like the DAC downgrade from AKM hurts for people using preamp mode but the DAC is closely matched to the amplifier performance and the Model 50 has slightly better amplification than the X3800H.

There seem to be a couple dB difference in SINAD, just wonder if that is due to comparing two different APs, and two different operators? Regardless, as you said, the DAC IC downgrade hurts preamp/dac output but not so much for those who use them as AVRs.

 

[Aperiodic]

$2500 at Crutchfield

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

No explanation is a good thing. Now the 'audiophile' folks wont be offended, as they wont understand a thang! At the same time for the people who need the info, its all there. I think if this is the norm, ASR wont hurt anyone!

Well my whole learning and the path towards objectivism in audio is based on those explanations and subsequent comments of the experienced Members. Always leaned that way by a gut feeling, but had no solid knowledge to discuss stuff. And now I'm at the point where an audio dealer recently suspected me of graduating from a tech university when I brought up a headphone's FR curve and the Tone Generator LOL. And believe me, the guy was clearly uncomfy, being used to feeding ppl subjectivist gibberish. So even a very basic level of knowledge can change the balance of power in such situations. The salespeople must see that there are more and more customers that don't see audio reproduction as an esoteric domain.

So I guess the community has to decide between serving the customer and maybe bringing a change to the whole hobby one day (at the cost of flame wars and fending off trolls) and being a somewhat niche expert platform.

 

[JRiggs]

On the back it says "compatible with Dirac". Is it included with the AVR?

Nope. Dirac is no included and not even available yet for these new Denon/Marantz AVRs/AVPs.

Supposedly, the timeline looks like this:

• Dirac limited and full bandwidth versions AFTER the firmware update in March 2023
• Support for Bass Control upgrade although the integration efforts has not yet started. We expect we should be able to release a new firmware to support Dirac Live Bass Control upgrade sometime in 2024 - TBD

Dirac live will be an optional upgrade (upcharge). Once after firmware update in 2023 March, customers, either installers or DIY consumers, will need to go to dirac.com/denon or dirac.com/marantz to purchase a license key from Dirac to calibrate each AVR. Customers can purchase either a limited version or a full band-width. A MAC address will be needed. A license key for the limited version will cost $259 and the full-bandwidth version will cost $349. It will be possible to upgrade from the limited to the full-band width version at later stage with additional cost of $99. Dirac Live Bass Control Multi Subwoofer is currently $499.