Marantz AV7705 Home Theater Processor Review

[peng]

I was in the same boat. My av7702 mkii has started having some issues. I was willing to shell out the extra for the avm 70, but it's extremely hard to find and I need something asap. Given the fire at akm, the av7706 was hard to find also, but in stock at a few of vendors while most said it could be weeks or even months before it was back in stock. I considered going the denon route, but read a lot of reviews of comparing them and the totl marantz avrs to the av7705 and 7706 and from all accounts, the av preamp always seem to come out on top, and that's even including the vaulted x8500 denon. Plus sometimes we can get too obsessed with measurements that seem to be inaudible.

So I pulled the trigger on the av7706 from musicdirect. The feature set, balanced outs and being more future proof than the 7705 put it over the top for me. I'm running an atmos 5.2.4 setup and in the process of expanding my setup to 7.2.4. It will be here Friday, so I will post my findings after getting up and running.

So the differences in the measurements seem inaudible, and yet your subjective impression puts the "av preamp always seem to come out on top..."? (deleted because the posted was just referring to reviews he read)
I read lots of those too. One can pick and choose what to believe, having used quite a few avrs, avps and separate dac/pre/power amps I have to wonder how real people's subjective evaluations are, other than we all know it is a fact that there is no consensus, even when people compared "high end" separates. Hence I would rather trust the measurements, audible of not.

 

[Masza]

Hard to imagine that any organization depending on the good will of the manufacturers or retailers to send them stuff to review would review that equipment stating that a product with half the price by the same company is better. If the organization reviewing equipment doesn't measure the equipment and their reviewers don't understand lot about that stuff either, what can you expect. Actually it doesn't even matter if they measure stuff or not. It can influence the subjective opinions stated in the reviews both ways.

 

[peng]

AV processors costs more, likely because of at least two main factors, a) manufacturers know they could command a higher profit margin, b) for smaller (aka boutique brands..) companies, they don't have the volume to benefit from much better prices for the parts.

Marantz av processor, avrs and Denon avrs used as preamp/processors, say AV7705 vs AR8012 vs AVR-X6500H, the signal chain from the analog input through pre out have the same parts/circuitry, the only differences are the HDAMs, and the XLRs that AVRs don't have. Again, the preamp and DAC sections are the practically identical. Marantz use a slow roll off filter so it rolls off slightly from 10 kHz but that has negligible to no effects if analog inputs are used in direct mode, or even on the digital side if higher sampling frequencies (e.g. >48 kHz) are used. In such case, if the differences in the measurements are in audible, then why would the AV7705 "sound better" whatever that means, if it measured worse in THD+N, Frequency response, and Intermodulation distortions etc.?

Comparing Marantz to Marantz and to Denon's that have the same parts and circuitry, except the HDAMs, the HDAM part seems to be the only thing that can explain the higher distortions. It is at the end of the signal chain, so it can only add distortions and noise to the parts/circuits upstream, but not subtract. Before I know any of those facts and measurements, I never found my previous two Marantz AVP sounding better, or even different than my current AVR. I know it is what people hear or believe what they hear that matters most, just that I wouldn't consider it a fact that AVP always come on top as such, it may come on top in certain things, but not necessarily "sound quality" that even if is true, being subjective, what sounds "better" to one may not to others.

 

[rccarguy]

I would go for the anthem,.over the marantz . Better room eq for one

 

[304290]

So the differences in the measurements seem inaudible, and yet your subjective impression puts the "av preamp always seem to come out on top..."?
One can pick and choose what to believe, having used quite a few avrs, avps and separate dac/pre/power amps I have to wonder how real people's subjective evaluations are, other than we all know it is a fact that there is no consensus, even when people compared "high end" separates. Hence I would rather trust the measurements, audible of not.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't have any subjective impressions. If you read my post, I was pointing out other people subjective impressions not mine. I also clearly stated that you could take those subjective impressions with a grain of salt. If you want to go strictly off objective measurements with out caring about subjective impressions that fine, but don't put words in other people mouths just to bolster your point. It's unnecessary. Even given the fact that I own and have owned av preamps for years, neither of them have been satisfactory enough for me for music listening. I have other setups for that. My choice of this av preamp is based primarily off the features I need as I also stated in my other post.

 

[rynberg]

Quite a few of the measurements that Amir (and others) perform show flaws that are of questionable audibility. However, the roll-off starting at 10kHz is audible to me on my SR7012, even with my 45-year old drummer's ears. It is certainly measurable! I look forward to moving on to a different unit that does not have this roll-off.

 

[304290]

As far as recommendations, I would also recommend the avm 70 over this one. Given the number of channels, arc, most likely better measurments, and only 1000.00 more. I just couldn't find it in stock. So for people who can afford to wait, that seems to be the sweet spot for price/performance/features ratio imo. Give mine bit the bullet, a couple of days ago, I couldn't wait.

 

[304290]

Quite a few of the measurements that Amir (and others) perform show flaws that are of questionable audibility. However, the roll-off starting at 10kHz is audible to me on my SR7012, even with my 45-year old drummer's ears. It is certainly measurable! I look forward to moving on to a different unit that does not have this roll-off.

I agree about the roll off in marantz gear being audible. That's one measurement that is clearly audible given how far the roll off is. We're not talking slight numbers like -.1 or -.5 db. For theater, after room corrections including treatments I have, they have been fine for me. But for music, it's annoying.

My hearing drops off above 15000hz and the roll off is still very noticeable to me. I've owned and sold a couple of marantz cd players in the past. I sold the sa8004, gave another shot to the sa8005 a couple of years later. I really want to like them both given the amount of sacd discs I had and the given bonus of the sa8005 having an asynchronus usb input. It gave me the functionality of a stand alone sacd player, and a usb dac that cold also playback dsd files from a pc or hard drive. The missing frequencies was just too much for me to live with given the features. But on the other hand, with room eq, treatments etc, their av preamps have been a great experience for me though I do wish I could have found an avm 70 though.

 

[rynberg]

As far as recommendations, I would also recommend the avm 70 over this one. Given the number of channels, arc, most likely better measurments, and only 1000.00 more. I just couldn't find it in stock. So for people who can afford to wait, that seems to be the sweet spot for price/performance/features ratio imo. Give mine bit the bullet, a couple of days ago, I couldn't wait.

Yeah, I get it. Bummer on the timing.

Yes, I would like a new unit without the roll-off and with better room correction than Audyssey. That being said, my SR7012 has worked very well. HDMI switching is fast and reliable, unit has good power, and is easy to use. Those factors cannot be ignored in a daily use device.

 

[peng]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't have any subjective impressions. If you read my post, I was pointing out other people subjective impressions not mine. I also clearly stated that you could take those subjective impressions with a grain of salt. If you want to go strictly off objective measurements with out caring about subjective impressions that fine, but don't put words in other people mouths just to bolster your point. It's unnecessary. Even given the fact that I own and have owned av preamps for years, neither of them have been satisfactory enough for me for music listening. I have other setups for that. My choice of this av preamp is based primarily off the features I need as I also stated in my other post.

Sorry, you are right, and I did not mean to put words in your mouth at all, its something I hate to do even by mistake. For some reason I misread that part of your post (must had been too early in the morning and picked a mild coffee by mistake) To be clear though, I did not "bolster my point" in that post, just stating my opinion on those subjective views on forums and online magazines in general, but I understand why you reacted they way you did.

I might have commented on this topic in some previous posts, but I would have most likely quoted experts such as "Dr. Toole" (instead of just my own "point") who had written at least two paragraphs on the topic of subjective vs objective evaluations.

Post edited, again, my apology..

 

[peng]

Quite a few of the measurements that Amir (and others) perform show flaws that are of questionable audibility. However, the roll-off starting at 10kHz is audible to me on my SR7012, even with my 45-year old drummer's ears. It is certainly measurable! I look forward to moving on to a different unit that does not have this roll-off.

Have you tried using higher sampling rate such as 88.1, 96 kHz? That roll off would be shifted to above 20 kHz at those higher sampling frequencies.

 

[peng]

Even given the fact that I own and have owned av preamps for years, neither of them have been satisfactory enough for me for music listening. I have other setups for that. My choice of this av preamp is based primarily off the features I need as I also stated in my other post.

When you listen to music, do you normally use REQ, or any EQ at all? I asked, because I have been comparing my AV8801 with my separate preamps and am trying to find out if I prefer the AV8801 with Audyssey On vs Off vs using separated preamps, all in 2 channel stereo mode. There are many variables and combinations, so no conclusion yet, and what complicates matter is that the 8801 cannot use the App so I have to try and use JRiver's PEQ to offset the HF boost and the MRC. Have the option to swap it back in to the HT setup and used the Denon in the two channel system, too much work though. One of these days I may try to convince a dealer to let me trade the 8801 in for any Denon avr, even a X3400H that can use the App.

 

[304290]

No problem in regards to the earlier post. I probably was a little too harsh. It’s a pet peeve of mine because my wife does it to me all of the time lol.

For two channel music I use combination of drc and Roon for both of my two channel setups( kef 107 in one room and apogee duetta in another room). I’ve always hated the sound of audysseyy for music. But even when using pure direct mode, and eq done by drc and Roon it still didn’t sound as good to me as even my topping dac 30 I use in my garage.

I may revisit this with the 7706 since it’s compatible with the editor app allowing me to create my own curves which the 7702 Mkii didn’t. Heck, the app may even let me bypass using drc software in that room even making multi channel music enjoyable. I have a bunch of Blu-ray concerts and multichannel dsd files I haven’t listened to in years.

 

[peng]

No problem in regards to the earlier post. I probably was a little too harsh. It’s a pet peeve of mine because my wife does it to me all of the time lol.

For two channel music I use combination of drc and Roon for both of my two channel setups( kef 107 in one room and apogee duetta in another room). I’ve always hated the sound of audysseyy for music. But even when using pure direct mode, and eq done by drc and Roon it still didn’t sound as good to me as even my topping dac 30 I use in my garage.

I may revisit this with the 7706 since it’s compatible with the editor app allowing me to create my own curves which the 7702 Mkii didn’t. Heck, the app may even let me bypass using drc software in that room even making multi channel music enjoyable. I have a bunch of Blu-ray concerts and multichannel dsd files I haven’t listened to in years.

Nice speakers, they deserve driven by some nice gear that can deliver the current for sure. If you ever re-visit Audyssey with the App, I highly recommend you use the Ratubuddyssey UI to customize curves. Try to draw it with the finger with anything would be tough. The best part of the App is, you can disable MRC and limit the frequency for REQ to the room transition frequency (Audyssey does elevate the , I think that may be one of the reasons why a Lot of people don't like what it did to their "sound quality" especially for those who have speakers lean on the bright side.

Here's one example, you can see the mid range dip (at about 2 kHz) and the elevated treble, by as much as 2 dB at 6 kHz. It did a good job from 20 to 200 Hz though, even without any manual customization (can't do it with the AV8801). Also, with the App, one would be able to easily slope the low end up a few dB from say 100 to 20 Hz.

If I use the App/Rat, I could have flatten the 20-120 Hz easily to almost flat, say about +/- 1.5 dB no smoothing, or +/- 1 dB with 1/12 smoothing.

 

[304290]

Thanks, and thank you for the tip. I agree about the elevation. My theater speakers, which are also kefs flanked with the also vintage 105/3, are on the bright side in comparison to the 107s. They are also bright even compared to the apogee ribbons(which surprisingly are not bright at all). Some they are more accurate vs the 107, which may be true, but certainly not as musical. But they definitely don't benefit from any type of tilt at all and sound better with audyssey turned off.

The tilt makes them sound harsh and very fatiguing and seem to put a hole in the midrange. I have often wondered what they would sound like with better electronics, but they are too large to drag up stairs where the 107s are or even across the house where the apogees are. I could move some electronics around, but apogees are driven by a pair of palladium II monoblocks that weighs 70lbs each. So given my laziness that's a no go also lol.

I'm powering my main theater setup with a pair of crestron 7x200s. That thing is built for power and power only, and is subpar for music as sounds as if it has an upper tilt of it's own. It's probably upper level distortion. So I abandoned the idea of music listening in that room years ago which lead me to gradually build a couple of two channel setups over the years.


It would be great if this could change with the app. I do like how loud the 105/3s can get and they do have great dynamics. The review Amirm did on the editor app is encouraging. When I first read it, I was tempted to upgrade right then, but decide to wait. Of course now, my hand is forced. The app is still a hassle compared to what I've read about arc/dirac and their ease of use and accuracy. But if the end result is close to what those offer, I could live with it.

Lol, as I type this, I just got a notification on my phone that fedex has delivered. Off to open my new toy!!

 

[bigguyca]

When you listen to music, do you normally use REQ, or any EQ at all? I asked, because I have been comparing my AV8801 with my separate preamps and am trying to find out if I prefer the AV8801 with Audyssey On vs Off vs using separated preamps, all in 2 channel stereo mode. There are many variables and combinations, so no conclusion yet, and what complicates matter is that the 8801 cannot use the App so I have to try and use JRiver's PEQ to offset the HF boost and the MRC. Have the option to swap it back in to the HT setup and used the Denon in the two channel system, too much work though. One of these days I may try to convince a dealer to let me trade the 8801 in for any Denon avr, even a X3400H that can use the App.

The AV8801 is a really nice unit IMO.

Did you notice that Denon returned to the TI PCM1795 DAC IC that is used in the AV8801 for their 110th anniversary DCD-A110. The move away from the current output PCM1795 in the AV8802 and AV8805 was likely based on cost savings, not quality, since a current output DAC costs more to implement properly than the AKM DAC IC. With AKM's inability to deliver product perhaps we'll see the PCM1795 again! (Doubtful)

 

[Pdxwayne]

The AV8801 is a really nice unit IMO.

Did you notice that Denon returned to the TI PCM1795 DAC IC that is used in the AV8801 for their 110th anniversary DCD-A110. The move away from the current output PCM1795 in the AV8802 and AV8805 was likely based on cost savings, not quality, since a current output DAC costs more to implement properly than the AKM DAC IC. With AKM's inability to deliver product perhaps we'll see the PCM1795 again! (Doubtful)

I also have the 8801. It just seems it always have a slight issue in getting the bass of speakers and sub to work well together. In term of getting the bass match well between the speakers and sub, I much prefer the full band phase alignment function of my Pioneer SC95.

 

[304290]

Well went to go open my new toy and nothing was out there. I thought it was a little strange when I got the delivered notification when the package was supposed to be signed for. But fedex has done that before. Been on the phone with the local hub. Someone came about an hour ago and looked in front of my front door, then I got a call from the local rep asking if someone came by. I told them yes, but all he did was looked and left. I'm now getting worried about this. Very suspicious that it shows that someone with my name signed. I have both doorbell and front yard cams and no one has been here.

 

[rynberg]

Have you tried using higher sampling rate such as 88.1, 96 kHz? That roll off would be shifted to above 20 kHz at those higher sampling frequencies.

And how would I easily up-sample all my content (music and movies)? I shouldn't have to spend extra money or effort to bypass Marantz's poor decisions.

 

[rynberg]

Here's one example, you can see the mid range dip (at about 2 kHz) and the elevated treble, by as much as 2 dB at 6 kHz. It did a good job from 20 to 200 Hz though, even without any manual customization (can't do it with the AV8801). Also, with the App, one would be able to easily slope the low end up a few dB from say 100 to 20 Hz.

If I use the App/Rat, I could have flatten the 20-120 Hz easily to almost flat, say about +/- 1.5 dB no smoothing, or +/- 1 dB with 1/12 smoothing.

View attachment 107797

A perfect example of how Audyssey (without the app) sounds terrible. Even after all these years, they wrongly try to produce a flat in-room response. It boggles my mind.