Let's get honest with SPL

[Spkrdctr]

Replying to the initial inquiry.

In casual listening to music I have an average of 78-82 dB, Slow C-Weighted calibrated UMIK on boom mic stand.

For general Tv consumption the average is slightly higher at 80-85 dB.

For Movies and popcorn time there is no average as the volume goes from whispers at 50 dB to Car crashes, explosions and metior strikes at 105 peaks and occasional bass hits peaks (18 - 80 hz) of 115 db. The overly high bass peaks are more than I thought I had dialed in for. Apparently over the years I have somehow??? Slowly bumped up the BASS!!! Having great powerful Subwoofers is a Blessing and a Curse… I must admit that I may have gotten carried away a bit. A good reminder of our nature to itch to crank up the volume.

Let the Shaming begin.

Remember, Its all about that bass! The human male is generally a bassaholic. Best thing to be in my opinion.

 

[Toltek]

Average of 56.76. Hi 78db. ipad app.

IIRC, my Ipad Pro needed +16 db or even higher to match UMIK. Iphone was within 1 db

 

[Ra1zel]

Something to think about, following the minimum audibility curve for 30Hz to even be perceived (in almost perfect conditions) it has to be 60dB, 75dB for 20Hz. Folks on ASR sometimes say they listen at 60dBC for example, so in other words there are only 2 possibilities:
1. They use copious amount of loudness equalization
2. They have yet to hear sub-bass

Now consider Harman while researching the most preffered in room curve, used a well treated, fairly big room. They had their system calibrated at 84dB if I remember correctly and yet even the most trained listeners required +5dB EQ for bass to bring it to perceptually flat level. Now what if we want some fun on top of that? What about crest factor? Headroom and thermal compression?

The prevailing opinion on ASR is that people overestimate their subwoofer needs while my personal experience is exactly the opposite. Can your typical 6.5 woofer 2 way play 20Hz at 110dB? Can your typical 10 inch sub do that?

Inb4 experts who never experienced a sub that digs into subsonics without compression/100%thd/annihilation tell me that I don't need it and it's stupid for music

 

[Sokel]

Something to think about, following the minimum audibility curve for 30Hz to even be perceived (in almost perfect conditions) it has to be 60dB, 75dB for 20Hz. Folks on ASR sometimes say they listen at 60dBC for example, so in other words there are only 2 possibilities:
1. They use copious amount of loudness equalization
2. They have yet to hear sub-bass

Now consider Harman while researching the most preffered in room curve, used a well treated, fairly big room. They had their system calibrated at 84dB if I remember correctly and yet even the most trained listeners required +5dB EQ for bass to bring it to perceptually flat level. Now what if we want some fun on top of that? What about crest factor? Headroom and thermal compression?

The prevailing opinion on ASR is that people overestimate their subwoofer needs while my personal experience is exactly the opposite. Can your typical 6.5 woofer 2 way play 20Hz at 110dB? Can your typical 10 inch sub do that?

Inb4 experts who never experienced a sub that digs into subsonics without compression/100%thd/annihilation tell me that I don't need it and it's stupid for music

That's from the first thread in Members area.
I got some answers about the LZpeak but still wonder.
(no subs,the only one I have is one that came as a gift with an SUV,passive and horrible looking,has some kind of carpet on the outside )

 

[sarumbear]

The prevailing opinion on ASR is that people overestimate their subwoofer needs while my personal experience is exactly the opposite. Can your typical 6.5 woofer 2 way play 20Hz at 110dB? Can your typical 10 inch sub do that?

Inb4 experts who never experienced a sub that digs into subsonics without compression/100%thd/annihilation tell me that I don't need it and it's stupid for music

You are not cleaver if you allow such high volumes for prolonged times like listening music. You will hurt yourself!

However, on HT system you may reach very high levels in sub frequencies with effects like explosions, earthquakes, etc.. This is why the subwoofer channel is called LFE: Low Frequency Effect. It was meant to fire up that high very occasionally.

 

[DonH56]

Something to think about, following the minimum audibility curve for 30Hz to even be perceived (in almost perfect conditions) it has to be 60dB, 75dB for 20Hz. Folks on ASR sometimes say they listen at 60dBC for example, so in other words there are only 2 possibilities:
1. They use copious amount of loudness equalization
2. They have yet to hear sub-bass

Now consider Harman while researching the most preffered in room curve, used a well treated, fairly big room. They had their system calibrated at 84dB if I remember correctly and yet even the most trained listeners required +5dB EQ for bass to bring it to perceptually flat level. Now what if we want some fun on top of that? What about crest factor? Headroom and thermal compression?

The prevailing opinion on ASR is that people overestimate their subwoofer needs while my personal experience is exactly the opposite. Can your typical 6.5 woofer 2 way play 20Hz at 110dB? Can your typical 10 inch sub do that?

Inb4 experts who never experienced a sub that digs into subsonics without compression/100%thd/annihilation tell me that I don't need it and it's stupid for music

I think most folk on ASR are aware of the various equal-loudness contours (Fletcher-Munson, more accurately Robinson-Dadson/ISO-226), and they are mentioned in this very thread. However, when asked for average listening levels, most of us will state the level in the midrange where our sensitivity is highest. Plus the vast majority of SPL meters are C-weighted, rolling off below 30 Hz, clearly stated in many posts in this thread. I'm usually careful to note the additional power needed for deep bass. A search will likely reveal there are as many bassheads on ASR as anywhere else.

FWIWFM, my main speakers have three 8" woofers, and are crossed to four 12" subwoofers, in a modest room. I have verified (while wearing hearing protection) I can exceed 110 dB in the midrange and around 120 dB at 20 Hz (and below; probably a little louder, but things were starting to fall at that point so I quit). And I am far from a "loud" listener on ASR.

And yes at 60~70 dBC average I engage loudness compensation to boost the bass and highest frequencies. But that level is plenty for me in the midrange. I am playing a concert this weekend, I need my hearing intact. 80 dB average in the midrange sounds very loud to me.

YMMV - Don

 

[Ra1zel]

However, when asked for average listening levels, most of us will state the level in the midrange where our sensitivity is highest. Plus the vast majority of SPL meters are C-weighted, rolling off below 30 Hz, clearly stated in many posts in this thread. I'm usually careful to note the additional power needed for deep bass. A search will likely reveal there are as many bassheads on ASR as anywhere else.

Well that's exactly the problem, if I have a significant subsonic output C weighting is just simply inaccurate or rather not realistic.

FWIWFM, my main speakers have three 8" woofers, and are crossed to four 12" subwoofers, in a modest room. I have verified (while wearing hearing protection) I can exceed 110 dB in the midrange and around 120 dB at 20 Hz (and below; probably a little louder, but things were starting to fall at that point so I quit). And I am far from a "loud" listener on ASR.

And yes at 60~70 dBC average I engage loudness compensation to boost the bass and highest frequencies. But that level is plenty for me in the midrange. I am playing a concert this weekend, I need my hearing intact. 80 dB average in the midrange sounds very loud to me.

That's all very good and reasonable, my approach is very similar.

You are not cleaver if you allow such high volumes for prolonged times like listening music. You will hurt yourself!

Of course, that's why I don't do it often or for long at a time, but if I want to play once a week something at this level it's better being able than unable.

 

[DonH56]

Well that's exactly the problem, if I have a significant subsonic output C weighting is just simply inaccurate or rather not realistic.

Yes, if you want to measure the response below 30 Hz, but a wideband SPL meter is a rare and pricey beast. REW (with a calibrated mic) and other audio analysis systems allow you to measure SPL that low, but most people simply do not have that ability. So what you are going to get in a thread like this are weighted midrange measurements, and that's good enough for relative comparisons. Just do as you said, look at the equal-loudness contours, and add the appropriate SPL to figure out the likely low-frequency levels (albeit fewer systems can make the SPL that low -- again, IME/IMO many people don't have finances and space for the subwoofage required).

 

[killdozzer]

Something to think about, following the minimum audibility curve for 30Hz to even be perceived (in almost perfect conditions) it has to be 60dB, 75dB for 20Hz. Folks on ASR sometimes say they listen at 60dBC for example, so in other words there are only 2 possibilities:
1. They use copious amount of loudness equalization
2. They have yet to hear sub-bass

Now consider Harman while researching the most preffered in room curve, used a well treated, fairly big room. They had their system calibrated at 84dB if I remember correctly and yet even the most trained listeners required +5dB EQ for bass to bring it to perceptually flat level. Now what if we want some fun on top of that? What about crest factor? Headroom and thermal compression?

The prevailing opinion on ASR is that people overestimate their subwoofer needs while my personal experience is exactly the opposite. Can your typical 6.5 woofer 2 way play 20Hz at 110dB? Can your typical 10 inch sub do that?

Inb4 experts who never experienced a sub that digs into subsonics without compression/100%thd/annihilation tell me that I don't need it and it's stupid for music

This makes sense, but I think most people are aware of that. 60dB is surely on the lower end for any bass, but with today's DSP, I think you can set it up nicely.

Most people are saying they're around 75-80dB. Which would make it even easier to set up properly.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

I have to compare your answers, it's strange to me that someone would reach 96dB... I read what Amir wrote about Metas not being happiest little speaker at 96dB, but even approaching 90dB and the sound is overwhelming. Does anyone really ever listen at 96 or over? Even if it's just a few songs...

Only ever in cars when I was young, but that was because there was easily 130-140 dB of bass to go along with it. Quick remeasure shows about 82-83 dBA of average SPL at my listening position. Also about the high SPL tests, I would say these are more important for handling the transients, which can be much higher with things like classical. My brother is the only person I have known to exceed 100 dBA, and my only impression was that I simply couldn't get away fast enough.

 

[Mnyb]

Idea what if everyone dials in thier typical volume over a couple tracks and then also measure with a test signal ideally provided by someone in this tread

 

[Sokel]

I'm putting some things together now cause I did a little test with very interesting results.
I just swapped my a lot powerful amp for the lows with the one for the mid-highs which has (spec'd) 1/4 of the power of the big one.

Interestingly LZpeaks fall something like 10-15db down while the rest of the meters are the same.
Headroom?With both cases well into the very normal conditions?
That's a little crazy.

 

[killdozzer]

Also about the high SPL tests, I would say these are more important for handling the transients, which can be much higher with things like classical.

What do you mean by this? Are you using the term "transients" in a classical sense - suddenly receiving a huge amount of energy resulting in going from quiet (still membrane) to very loud (long excursion)? And why more important? You mean because you experience it as louder after a quiet part?

 

[dasdoing]

how do you guys even give a fixed number? with my SPL meter even in slow mode the number jumps up and down

 

[Sokel]

how do you guys even give a fixed number? with my SPL meter even in slow mode the number jumps up and down

That's why I post REW results,music cannot have a fixed level.

 

[dasdoing]

That's why I post REW results,music cannot have a fixed level.

m-noise is probably the best noise to meassure this? https://m-noise.org/

 

[dasdoing]

m-noise is probably the best noise to meassure this? https://m-noise.org/

now you probably need to bring this to the same LUFS level as your typical music

 

[Sokel]

m-noise is probably the best noise to meassure this? https://m-noise.org/

Yes,there are ways to measure a fixed signal,but the thread is about real word listening to music.

 

[killdozzer]

how do you guys even give a fixed number? with my SPL meter even in slow mode the number jumps up and down

That's why I proposed the same song and was asking for avg on your meter. I figured even compressed version wouldn't change average.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

What do you mean by this? Are you using the term "transients" in a classical sense - suddenly receiving a huge amount of energy resulting in going from quiet (still membrane) to very loud (long excursion)? And why more important? You mean because you experience it as louder after a quiet part?

In some forms of music, there can be significant differences in level with time, as we all know. If we have a speaker that works well at 86 dB, but falls apart after about 94-95 dB, it will do fine provided the level doesn't exceed the 94 dB limit. For something like compressed pop where we are listening at around 80 dB all is well. The speaker sounds great and we are happy. If we are listening to classical music with a number of quiet passages, we are likely to turn it up enough for them to be audible. But when there is something like percussion or crescendo of the orchestra the levels may go up much higher. Say 95-100 dB. Here we are beyond the limits where the speaker can produce undistorted sound, and it will misbehave in some way. Usually a well-designed woofer can cope by just getting to its excursion limits and limiting any further travel in a controlled fashion and it will sound muddy or maybe have some crackle, but tweeters can produce a lot of nasty high frequency harmonics when they are overdriven. This means that instead of the desired awe of orchestral power, we will get lots of unpleasant distortion and noises during those passages as we have exceeded the limits of the speaker. In many ways, its like clipping since these effects seldom come in gradually, but fairly rapidly as we get to the limits of the transducers in my experience. Ideally you want enough reserve to not go too far into the large signal portion of the transducer's response as that is where things start getting nonlinear.