Lack of 2.1 support is grinding my gears

[Yorkshire Mouth]

How is that different than how it's been for studio subs for donkeys years?

Erm…it’s not.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

That doesn't fit with my anecdotal experience. Well positioned bad speakers in a good room can sound pretty good and badly positioned good speakers in a bad room are not always great.

It does fit in with my anecdotal experience, but there you go.

Your use of ‘can’ and ‘not always’ doesn’t actually conflict with mine, though.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

How many outputs does Wiim Mini have? So you would run monitors on Digital out and subwoofer on 3.5mm out on Wiim Mini?

Stop complaining about the price and just buy the Wiim Amp. Thread ended.

As I say, the whole purpose of the thread is to discuss the lack of options for 2.1, not to say that as soon as there’s one option the discussion is over.

I do find a few posts in the thread have started to be a little rude, bordering on aggressive.

Please keep it constructive.

 

[EJ3]

As I say, the whole purpose of the thread is to discuss the lack of options for 2.1, not to say that as soon as there’s one option the discussion is over.

I do find a few posts in the thread have started to be a little rude, bordering on aggressive.

Please keep it constructive.

That is my thought also.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

It does fit in with my anecdotal experience, but there you go.

Your use of ‘can’ and ‘not always’ doesn’t actually conflict with mine, though.

We often hear the room more than the speakers unless you are making quick A/B changes between different speakers.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

That was one of my issues. The other was cost.

But further, my objection - and I suppose this is the point of the thread - is that it should be unnecessary.

We have a forum here, we keep an eye on the measurements of DACs and amps because we want to see how well they perform. But then so many members end up driving speakers from AV amps because of their dsp functionality, ability to select crossovers, etc.

There appears to be a market out there for something like an AV amp, but 2.1 - indeed, Marantz and Denon have such units, but they measure appallingly.

Look at this :

Marantz NR1510 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of Marantz NR1510 5.2 4K slim Home Theater AV Receiver. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $799. I have been wanting to test a slim AVR for a long time as they much better fit under a TV in a living room than the monster that regular AVR...

audiosciencereview.com

Functionally, it’s exactly what we want apart from being 5.1 instead of 2.1, but it measures so poorly.

Then this:

Marantz NR1200 Stereo Receiver Review

This is a review and measurements of Marantz NR1200 slim 2-chnannel stereo receiver with network capability (D&M HEOS, AirPlay2, Spotify connect, etc.). Marantz USA sells this in their online store for US$599. I bought mine from a dealer in Tokyo in January 2021 for 62,000JPY. Amir once...

audiosciencereview.com

Now there’s your 2.1, but again it’s woeful.

Similar story here:

Denon PMA-600NE Integrated Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon PMA-600NE integrated amplifier with Bluetooth support and DAC. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $499. I like the look of the unit especially for the price. Somewhat dismayed though that the input selector is not lined up with...

audiosciencereview.com

I’m just noting the gap in the market.

While rightly critiqued from the engineering purist standpoint none of those issues mentioned in the reviews would have any audible influence on the sound quality from the consumer standpoint. They would be too small for you to notice any of those issues in a blind listening test unlike your room which has a huge effect on the sound quality.

 

[Sokel]

That was one of my issues. The other was cost.

But further, my objection - and I suppose this is the point of the thread - is that it should be unnecessary.

We have a forum here, we keep an eye on the measurements of DACs and amps because we want to see how well they perform. But then so many members end up driving speakers from AV amps because of their dsp functionality, ability to select crossovers, etc.

There appears to be a market out there for something like an AV amp, but 2.1 - indeed, Marantz and Denon have such units, but they measure appallingly.

Look at this :

Marantz NR1510 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of Marantz NR1510 5.2 4K slim Home Theater AV Receiver. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $799. I have been wanting to test a slim AVR for a long time as they much better fit under a TV in a living room than the monster that regular AVR...

audiosciencereview.com

Functionally, it’s exactly what we want apart from being 5.1 instead of 2.1, but it measures so poorly.

Then this:

Marantz NR1200 Stereo Receiver Review

This is a review and measurements of Marantz NR1200 slim 2-chnannel stereo receiver with network capability (D&M HEOS, AirPlay2, Spotify connect, etc.). Marantz USA sells this in their online store for US$599. I bought mine from a dealer in Tokyo in January 2021 for 62,000JPY. Amir once...

audiosciencereview.com

Now there’s your 2.1, but again it’s woeful.

Similar story here:

Denon PMA-600NE Integrated Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon PMA-600NE integrated amplifier with Bluetooth support and DAC. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $499. I like the look of the unit especially for the price. Somewhat dismayed though that the input selector is not lined up with...

audiosciencereview.com

I’m just noting the gap in the market.

There are such stuff,packing lots of functionality and as reliability is really important (as it includes levels,slopes,etc) it is better not to cut corners.
I firmly believe one gets what pays for in the long term.
Example:

 

[ooheadsoo]

The market has 2 major segments, 2ch and multich. The only segment that I know of that really does 2.1 is the pc desktop segment. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us cobbling together a serious 2.1 system.

 

[popej]

There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us cobbling together a serious 2.1 system.

There is no problem with creating good 2.1 system based on AVR. Most probably it would be better, cheaper and more convenient than stacked stereo components.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

There is no problem with creating good 2.1 system based on AVR. Most probably it would be better, cheaper and more convenient than stacked stereo components.

There’s the rub. Audiophiles buying and using AV amps with 3, 5 or more channels of unwanted/unneeded amplification, and poorly measuring amps and DACs, all in a ‘full size’ configuration.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The market has 2 major segments, 2ch and multich. The only segment that I know of that really does 2.1 is the pc desktop segment. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us cobbling together a serious 2.1 system.

So I suppose this takes us back to my original post.

Point 1 - The majority of speakers reviewed here by Amir and elsewhere by Erin & co. say “you’ll need a sub.”

Point 2 - ‘The PC desktop segment’ presumably includes all those people using the SMSL, Topping and Fosi Audio DACs and amps which have appeared over the last few years.

I’d say that a 2.1 set up is suitable/necessary for anyone into ‘serious hi-fi’ whose speakers don’t go low enough to not need a sub.

Which is the vast majority of us.

Just my opinion.

 

[Chr1]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I use a Marantz m-cr610 in my kitchen. I use it with a pair of Technics sb-f3s and a B&W asw608 sub. The Marantz has several basic 2.1 EQ options and sounds very good to my ears. Can't remember the details of the options available but pretty sure they will be listed in the owners manual, which is easily downloaded.

 

[popej]

There’s the rub.

I know
I wouldn't buy AVR except I wanted room correction and at that time stereo with room correction was really rare and super expensive. Now we can get stereo receivers, which use AVR parts and offer similar features. But still price is not competitive.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I use a Marantz m-cr610 in my kitchen. I use it with a pair of Technics sb-f3s and a B&W asw608 sub. The Marantz has several basic 2.1 EQ options and sounds very good to my ears. Can't remember the details of the options available but pretty sure they will be listed in the owners manual, which is easily downloaded.

I’ve had a look at the manual, and can’t see any 2.1 options other than a sub out, though I may have missed something.

Many thanks.

 

[Middle Earth]

The market has 2 major segments, 2ch and multich. The only segment that I know of that really does 2.1 is the pc desktop segment. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us cobbling together a serious 2.1 system.

Also soundbars.
If your two channel amplifier has a sub - out or a coax out or a 3.5 mm plug out you can use a powered/active subwoofer. I am chaining 4 subs this way with external amps.

 

[Chr1]

I’ve had a look at the manual, and can’t see any 2.1 options other than a sub out, though I may have missed something.

Many thanks.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

View attachment 339045

Many thanks, don’t know how I missed that.

 

[Chr1]

No worries. Not the most comprehensive options but simple and effective...Definitely better than nothing .

Think I use option 4 as the sb-f3s are bookshelves and sounded better to me with the small boost at 400Hz

 

[ooheadsoo]

There is no problem with creating good 2.1 system based on AVR. Most probably it would be better, cheaper and more convenient than stacked stereo components.

It would be, but if this market were bigger, it should be even cheaper since 2.1 users don't need all the extra hardware.

 

[LouB]

There are such stuff,packing lots of functionality and as reliability is really important (as it includes levels,slopes,etc) it is better not to cut corners.
I firmly believe one gets what pays for in the long term.
Example:

View attachment 338844

Now that seems like a great choice, but at 5.5K it's something I can't afford. I do have a question on the Dirac Live Bass Control, is one of the DIRAC features act like a Hi/Low pass filter and prevent the low freq. from the mains ? My impending solution for better bass on the Marantz model 40n 2.1 channel amp is a 4K budget for better speakers probably something with a 12" woofer & no sub.
I have a very nice Paraidigm sub I quit using when I ditched the AVR amp for the Marantz. The sub was fantastic for movies used in a 5.1 set up but it just seems too much for 2 channel music & I prefer music only without the sub.
Next time I buy an amp I'm defiantly now more knowledgeable on what it will do. I thought the Model 40n had an actual Hi/low pass filter but the "bass filter" is strictly a cut off for sub output only.
Thanks