Best way to upgrade my 2nd hand Linn system

[streamophile]

Hello ASR,

First-time posting here, I hope you're all doing great.

I'm quite new to the audio world and a couple of years ago I bough a second hand Linn system on the cheap. Linn was the only brand I knew, had heard equipment from and so had some experience with. My father had a full Linn system, so I just followed his steps. That being said, after some reading, I believe I could do better. Therefore, I'm now on a quest to level up my audio setup, and I could really use your thoughts and suggestions to find the best bang-for-my-buck way to do so.

Current Setup:

• Speakers: Linn Ninka
• Amp: Linn Majik (old-school first-gen)
• Source: Chromecast Audio (plugged in via RCA straight into the Majik amp) playing local audio files and Sportify.

What's Bugging Me:

• Room reality check: My Linn Ninka speakers are probably too big for my room (20 m2), and I could use something less weighty and space-hogging.
• Amp's age: The Linn Majik amp is showing its age, being a first-generation model and all. Probably it is also close to being underpowered to drive the Ninkas.
• DAC issues: Chromecast Audio's built-in DAC is passable but I think I could do better. I also use the system to watch TV and a separate DAC could allow me to connect the TV digitally rather than through the current RCA connection that is using the TVs probably very poor DAC
• Sound quirks: Sometimes high-pitched frequencies get a bit fatiguing, making me hit the volume down button. Also, I'm missing some bass oomph for my taste, although this mostly happens with not-so-great quality Spotify streaming, which may well be the culprit

Upgrade Ideas

• Speaker Swap: Downsizing to sleeker, more modern speakers might help with the room issue. However, I think my Linn Ninkas are the best part of the system (might be wrong).
• Amp Upgrade: I'm also thinking of leveling up the amp which could help balance out those trebles.
• External DAC: Adding an external DAC to my Chromecast Audio, or maybe swapping it out for a different streamer, could be a good improvement. Also, it could be the most wallet-friendly fix if the Chromecast Audio is the culprit.
• Lossless Music Source: Jumping onto Tidal or Qobuz might make a big difference, audio-wise. But it does come with a monthly tab, which I am not very fond off as I do not feel I get my monthly money's worth.

Budget: I've got around 1000€ to play with, plus any extra cash that can make from selling part of the system. I'm rocking out in Scandinavia.

I'm open to any recommendations or advice you've got as I mainly need help with diagnosing where the main problem is. Feel free to also recommend specific components.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Mart68]

I would change the loudspeakers, they are the most likely cause of any dissatisfaction.

 

[Wicky]

Agree with Mart68 replacing the speakers are going to provide the most difference.

Personally I'd also go lossless for source but no need to go hi-res.

You can do better with than the DAC in Chromecast by connecting it to another DAC but as a streamer it's more than competent, see http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/02/measurements-google-chromecast-audio.html by Archmagio. So while unlikely to provide an audible difference, for the price DACs these days I'd add one.

 

[streamophile]

Thanks for the quick replies @Wicky and @Mart68 !

But why exactly are you in favour of changing only the speakers? It is just a general blanket statement that the speakers make the most difference? If so, I agree, but if the speakers are much better than the amp, wouldn't changing the amp make a significant difference? I think that may be my case here, although I am not sure. The amp is this one and the speakers are these.

Regarding the DAC @Wicky, I understand that a different streamer would not make a difference with the DAC is the same, but are you also saying that a different external DAC will also make no difference?

Finally, I'd be grateful if you could point me to a couple of specific products to start building a list of potential candidates. Any ideas?

 

[BDWoody]

But why exactly are you in favour of changing only the speakers? It is just a general blanket statement that the speakers make the most difference?

Generally speaking, focus where you've got moving parts, like speakers, headphones, TT cartridges (transducers).

Electronics, unless particularly horrible aren't going to be where the low hanging fruit lay. I have maybe 10 amps around here, from Adcom to Krell to Bryston to Devialet, and unless I'm pushing one into clipping, I doubt very much I could tell any of them apart with any of my passive speakers.

Your speakers/room create an integrated system, and learning how to explore what's happening there can lead to remarkable improvements.

Electronics are fun, but the speakers and room are where the rubber meets the road.

REW

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Umik-1 mic

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

The free software and relatively cheap calibrated mic and a little time, and you'll find yourself seeing your room and sound in a different way.

 

[Wicky]

Regarding the DAC @Wicky, I understand that a different streamer would not make a difference with the DAC is the same, but are you also saying that a different external DAC will also make no difference?

I'm suggesting it *might* make an audible difference but only based on the poor measurements but the level of audibility here is debatable. I'd add one just to satisfy my physiological sense on unease

 

[Mart68]

Thanks for the quick replies @Wicky and @Mart68 !

But why exactly are you in favour of changing only the speakers? It is just a general blanket statement that the speakers make the most difference? If so, I agree, but if the speakers are much better than the amp, wouldn't changing the amp make a significant difference? I think that may be my case here, although I am not sure. The amp is this one and the speakers are these.

Regarding the DAC @Wicky, I understand that a different streamer would not make a difference with the DAC is the same, but are you also saying that a different external DAC will also make no difference?

Finally, I'd be grateful if you could point me to a couple of specific products to start building a list of potential candidates. Any ideas?

The Ninka speakers are a conventional two and a half way design. IME that type of loudspeaker can always be improved on, often quite markedly.

The amp is good enough and powerful enough to be adequate with most loudspeakers in most situations. The digital source is most likely blameless even if not state of the art.

So get better speakers. The loudspeakers are the one component that can almost always be improved on no matter what you are starting with.

There is so much out there recommending specific speakers is impossible. As a general rule with passive loudspeakers I would always go for a three-way type loudspeaker and would not buy anything for which a reasonably comprehensive suite of measurements isn't available, since even a home demo can deceive in the short term.

 

[DSJR]

I would change the loudspeakers, they are the most likely cause of any dissatisfaction.

Do you KNOW the Ninkas Mart?

What follows could be a post to HiFi Wigwam and I make no apologies for it, as I worked with this stuff hands on shortly before retiring from retail, so what follows is practical and subjectively based - be warned! Linn changed models not long after and began their move further up-market with ever higher prices, but this mid noughties era was pretty good subjectively.

I remember the Ninka fondly and subjectively they compared well with other brands of speaker at similar price (a grand the pair I recall). The Majik-I amp was a neat but power limited amp with a slight subjective 'character' of sound I recall (precise 'lean and clean' but best not go further subjectively here).

If I didn't have so much crap here plus a pair of now expensive to buy genteel sounding speakers I'm a bit loathe to sell on for various reasons, I'd happily give a set of active Ninkas house room if herself liked the visuals.

First would be to add a second power amp such as an LK140 and bi-amp them passively which would relieve the Majik of a lot of power-stress, but the best option I'd suggest (but more boxes) would be to obtain two LK140's (maybe three) in later stylee (dimple on the power switch and coarser case finish) or the 5125 multi-channel amp which offered a more 'airy' presentation (yes, a subjective but repeatable vibe in the store) which was given a review here* and the relevant aktiv cards. Use a simple 2.5 or 4mm conductor cross section speaker cable (the old Linn stuff is awful but the K10 which I believe is 2.5mm although Linn claim it's 4mm - was really good and available from KabelDirekt for less money). It's a doddle to make them bi wired/bi amped passively and then fully active as there are connector plates on the speaker terminals which are configured or removed(?) for full active use.

The LK140 was a very good little amp regardless for its time, the aktiv tweeter cards have hf trim adjustment which may help if the hf is ducked down a notch

The speakers even in a digital system are the slave of what they're given and with deepest respect to the OP, the Majik isn't really up to it. The Ninkas are pleasant enough used passive, but all Linn speakers which can be made 'aktiv' usually perform far far better that way (the previous Keilidh model was truly hobbled in passive form sadly, losing midrange output in a boom-fizz kind of way - going active restored the balance superbly I remember)

* https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...linn-av5125-5-channel-amplifier-review.13902/


I use a CCA from its analogue output and subjectively it's fine, if limited technically. I do want to try an SMSL SU-1 dac as I'm an effin' cheapskate and don't need fancy displays but the money is going elsewhere currently. I'd criticise Spotify myself but I don't have a subscription there. There are other dacs which one can cast to such as this -

SOLO

Upgrade your system with SOLO. Stream via AirPlay2, Chromecast, Spotify Connect, Bluetooth, and Roon. Unleash the power of wireless audiophile sound.

argonaudio.com

- but I can't remember if its been third party tested and how well the dac inside performs. Whether you'd hear any difference I don't know.

Far more to suggest but would the above do for a start?

 

[maty]

Linn Majik I

Linn Majik I Stereo Integrated Amplifier Manual | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

Linn Majik - humming fault

andydoz.blogspot.com

Maybe I would try first a recap (electrolitic capacitors). And clean connectors, volume... Searching a good technician near of your home.

 

[maty]

Linn Ninka specs

[PDF] https://www.tonlaget.se/pdf/ninka.pdf

I would keep the loudspeakers. As passives they do not go down too much, 50 Hz at -3 dB -> with 15-20 m2 it is OK.

What type of music do you listen?

 

[Mart68]

Do you KNOW the Ninkas Mart?

I've had a listen to them but not owned them or played about with them. They can certainly be bettered.

@maty - I'm assuming o/p has the more recent 100 wpc version of the Majik amp.

 

[Loathecliff]

I'd take advantage of the lingering BS that Ivor the mouthy (magazine assisted) machinist was a god and sell off anything with a Binn badge and start from scratch.
See Amir's in-depth reviews of (cheap) amps and DACs, then take BD Woody's room measuring route.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I don't know the Ninka...
As for the rest of the electronics, I would not bother or advise . We must keep in minds that speakers interact with the room. You can find ways to optimize their performance in a given room. It will take time, but it is IMHO and IME worth it...

I do know that setup makes the largest difference in what we perceive.
I would advise to keep the system. Learn patiently and intently to measure
Then learn how to optimize with DSP, this could take a while, this shall take a long time but ...
You shall learn, a lot. You shall know, how to extract the best from, whatever comes next or later or never...

DSP can be inexpensive... If you have a laptop or PC, you do have already the tools for DSP. Software can be a problematic, ask here and they will guide you, perhaps DIRAC? DSP/DRC, is the longer but surer and safer road...


Peace.

 

[DSJR]

I'd take advantage of the lingering BS that Ivor the mouthy (magazine assisted) machinist was a god and sell off anything with a Binn badge and start from scratch.
See Amir's in-depth reviews of (cheap) amps and DACs, then take BD Woody's room measuring route.

Reply also to @Mart68

Ivor was well out of it by the mid noughties and only came back later to steer the Linn ship back to a form of growth (when the prices and aspirations started to rise into more elegant milled-from-solid boxes and so on). Linn's electronic products were variable still but my memories are subjective only, so best not share much more here.

The Ninka was from 2003 - 2004 or so I recall and what speakers readily available in the UK back then for a grand the pair could clearly better them? We had KEF (cheaper Q models had a 3 - 5dB tweeter rise at the time, the RDM's were a mess and the Reference models far more expensive), B&W were well into their ear-piercing tweeter phase by this time, Castles weren't as good (Avon, Harlech) and the Focals coming along again at a grand the pair had a piercing tweeter and a boomy bass if the port was unblocked (I have an idea the floor standers were more expensive). Naim Intro's were a total joke frankly, the Spendor S6e was really nice but the Ninkas sounded better if 'aktivated' which made for an upgrade path of sorts. Only other one we liked as a full range model was the Sonus Faber Concerto on adjustable stands but again, these cost more I recall.

 

[maty]

Linn Ninka

DEQX販売のKurizz-Labo

to English

DEQX販売のKurizz-Labo

 

[Mart68]

Reply also to @Mart68

Ivor was well out of it by the mid noughties and only came back later to steer the Linn ship back to a form of growth (when the prices and aspirations started to rise into more elegant milled-from-solid boxes and so on). Linn's electronic products were variable still but my memories are subjective only, so best not share much more here.

The Ninka was from 2003 - 2004 or so I recall and what speakers readily available in the UK back then for a grand the pair could clearly better them? We had KEF (cheaper Q models had a 3 - 5dB tweeter rise at the time, the RDM's were a mess and the Reference models far more expensive), B&W were well into their ear-piercing tweeter phase by this time, Castles weren't as good (Avon, Harlech) and the Focals coming along again at a grand the pair had a piercing tweeter and a boomy bass if the port was unblocked (I have an idea the floor standers were more expensive). Naim Intro's were a total joke frankly, the Spendor S6e was really nice but the Ninkas sounded better if 'aktivated' which made for an upgrade path of sorts. Only other one we liked as a full range model was the Sonus Faber Concerto on adjustable stands but again, these cost more I recall.

Ninka was from 2001 I think - I can't recall what was current back then at around a grand, but I'm pretty sure they weren't the only game in town.

 

[DSJR]

All ancient history now anyway and Linn have long ago left that market behind

I just wanted to be fair to what I fondly remember as a competitive product *at the time* in the UK scene. Active operation has always been a minority thing in the real audio world (ASR may be gaining some ground with recommendations of high quality active prosumer monitors, but it's a niche in a niche here really I feel still).

I'm just trying to suggest ways of improving the performance of the OP's speakers with selected used gear qhich may be easy enough to sell on if looked after. I suspect that the latest ASR-Special cheap wonder amp wouldn't be heard of outside of this fraternity and that may well be an issue.

Obviously, if the OP wants to flog the lot and start again, then a half decent pair of active speakers from the usual suspects (can I include Kali as well?) and a good dac with variable balanced output may well be an excellent way to go, but the OP will have to look around to try to get a listen or simply trust the specs, something I still rail against where speakers are concerned as dispersion differences may well dictate a preference when the room isn't known and there's some inexperience of how speakers actually load different room acoustics - one reason why lovers of omni-directional models insist on the room being part of the playback scene rather than being made not to be...

 

[ZolaIII]

Buy a microphone and see what you
are getting, play with it and see how much you can upgrade what you already have (with placement and PEQ). Then sit down and write what you want to accomplish. What other things you already have that can be of use (like PC, laptop, Pi...) if you want to go that path as that's not a huge budget.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Your speakers/room create an integrated system, and learning how to explore what's happening there can lead to remarkable improvements.

Electronics are fun, but the speakers and room are where the rubber meets the road.

REW

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Umik-1 mic

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

The free software and relatively cheap calibrated mic and a little time, and you'll find yourself seeing your room and sound in a different way.

DO NOT underestimate the value of this advice! The Second Venue Problem has plagued listeners for many years, and even moderate (and moderately priced) room treatment can yield results that will satisfy greatly.

Jim

 

[streamophile]

I've had a listen to them but not owned them or played about with them. They can certainly be bettered.

@maty - I'm assuming o/p has the more recent 100 wpc version of the Majik amp.

Hi @Mart68 - the amp is the 1993 33W into 8 and 60W into 4 that @maty posted.