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Best way to upgrade my 2nd hand Linn system

My two cents,

If you mainly listen to good recordings, even streaming as Tidal or.., and orchestral, jazz, folk, vocal music... that is, with physical instruments and unadulterated voices with Autotune, then I recommend a class AB amplifier of a certain level and power (in the range of €1,000).

If most of what you listen to are modern recordings, of low recording quality, low dynamic range, with hardly any real instrumentation and a multitude of studio computer effects.. as electronic music then a class D Hypex Ncore NC252MP of about €500 + balanced DAC (€500) as a preamp.
 
My two cents,

If you mainly listen to good recordings, even streaming as Tidal or.., and orchestral, jazz, folk, vocal music... that is, with physical instruments and unadulterated voices with Autotune, then I recommend a class AB amplifier of a certain level and power (in the range of €1,000).

If most of what you listen to are modern recordings, of low recording quality, low dynamic range, with hardly any real instrumentation and a multitude of studio computer effects.. as electronic music then a class D Hypex Ncore NC252MP of about €500 + balanced DAC (€500) as a preamp.
It would have been a good idea for me to speak about genres too. It's mostly the first; jazz, acoustic, folk and some classical. I would say the recordings are high quality and high DR indeed.

Out of curiosity and lack of knowledge, why would an AB amp be better for this?

As a small extra the best ("subjectively") sounding system I've ever heard (which admitted is not many) was the Linn Keilidhs with the original class A musical fidelity A1. It "felt" really "rich and warm" as compared to my current system. But my system seems to be much better at dynamics and timing, I had the feeling that the Keilidh + A1 got "lost and confused" with quicker and more busy music. Please take the above with a mountain of salt as I know these kinds of descriptions are not very well suited to this forum but it describes my experience well and maybe you can look past the bullsh*t and see something of value.
 
Out of curiosity and lack of knowledge, why would an AB amp be better for this?

I wonder the same thing.

Typically, you'll get a bunch of words without evidence to support what is a highly questionable claim like that.
 
Hi @Mart68 - the amp is the 1993 33W into 8 and 60W into 4 that @maty posted.
I still use this model as a desktop headphone amp. It was formerly in a Kaber system in a small apartment but I got the urge to upgrade to Aktiv which increased complexity and complicated any chance of resale for the speakers.

In a new larger space, it was easier to buy new cheap speakers than to deploy three amps (including the Majik), a Tunebox, patch cables and speaker wire with Linn Deltron connectors.

I also have a Chromecase Audio that I subjectively prefer with an external DAC but it sounded fine from its analog output. You can try changing its output level if you want but that doesn't really change the sound quality once the volume is matched.
 
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I'd expect Linn products to be well-engineered and solidly constructed, if pricey. If the speakers are simply too large for your space, then do what you must, but I note that Ninka allows for bi- and tri-amplification(!) And room correction can make for more profound sonic changes than simply swapping out amplifiers and DACs willy-nilly.

As for the room itself, if there are lots of hard reflective surfaces and little in the way of dampening (e.g., carpet, draperies, upholstered furniture), that could be an issue no matter what new equipment you buy.
 
  • Sound quirks: Sometimes high-pitched frequencies get a bit fatiguing, making me hit the volume down button. Also, I'm missing some bass oomph for my taste, although this mostly happens with not-so-great quality Spotify streaming, which may well be the culprit
  • Lossless Music Source: Jumping onto Tidal or Qobuz might make a big difference, audio-wise. But it does come with a monthly tab, which I am not very fond off as I do not feel I get my monthly money's worth.
Are you streaming Spotify's free tier? It's not a particularly high quality service. Do you suffer the same audio issues when listening to your local lossless files?
 
Hi, and welcome to ASR :)
All the, well intentioned, advice can be overwhelming and sometimes conflicting. Don't worry, it starts making sense and there is often no single right answer.

The issues you describe do sound as if you should focus on the speakers to start with. After that you can start thinking about power, but only if you need more.

Some of those issues may be to do with your room too - try to read about that.

Has anyone suggested active speakers?
That would be really interesting for you (change speakers and amp in one step).
Depending on aesthetics... you might reach Genelec 8030 or Neumann KH120 with your budget - both absolutely top level.
Alternatively, JBL 306 or 308 (depends on size) would leave some money for other things.

Look at the review index here, read some reviews and the commentary.

Enjoy :)
 
Linn Ninka
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d2FjPTcwNXgxLjMzMw==_src_19313-max_linnlab.jpg




JSmith
 
Buy a microphone and see what you
are getting, play with it and see how much you can upgrade what you already have (with placement and PEQ). Then sit down and write what you want to accomplish. What other things you already have that can be of use (like PC, laptop, Pi...) if you want to go that path as that's not a huge budget.
I second this.
 
You're in the UK right?
My 2C:
  • Speaker swap will be the biggest change, and if those charts above are right... probably a good idea
    • Easiest - Wharefedale Diamond A1 - powered version of Diamond 12.1
    • Cheapest -Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 or 12.2
    • Better - Elac DBR62
  • For the electronics - just run the Chromecast via mini-optical into something like
    • AUDIOPHONICS DA-S125NC (Integrated NCore amp)
      • Obviously you don't need it if you go with powered speakers
      • EDIT: Chromecast is good to stream, but not as a DAC so you don't want to use the minijack-to-RCA
 
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Apparently the Makij is a chip-based amp Philips TDA1514A (1992).

I definitely agree with the statement that changing speakers can bring the most improvement, but I would also try another amplifier.
 
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then I recommend a class AB amplifier of a certain level and power (in the range of €1,000).
The class of the amplifier tells you NOTHING about the sound quality. It's just the circuit topology. I look at the specs/performance (and the price) not the class.

There many different ways to make a good-sounding amplifier, and with solid state electronics it's not hard to make an amp that's better than human hearing. You can make an audibly perfect amp with tubes, but it's expensive and tube amps are less energy efficient than solid state.

The only generality is that class-A is the least energy efficient (and the oldest) and class-D is the most energy efficient (and newest).

With class D you can get more power out of a given transistor or MOSFET with less heat and therefor less stress on the output components. So class-D amps tend to be lighter and smaller (with smaller heatsinks). The highest-power pro amps are mostly class-D. It seems like almost everything is trending toward class-D. Class-D is more more complicated but with all of the "complexity" built-into a chip it becomes economical.
 
Firstly, thanks all of you for chiming in. Some comments in to particular order:
- I'm relatively prone to moving apartments as I am renting, and will continue to so for many years still. So investing in the room both in terms of time and money is not worthwhile as I could be out of my current place in less than a year. I can consider this in the future if I do settle down and buy a place.
- I'll buy second hand. Here in Sweden there is a huge second hand market and people are very trustworthy so I can really make use of the budget and look for stuff that is above my budget.
- I also would like a system or components that are popular/easy to sell/retain their value as I may one to change again in the future. So getting something very niche and specific might now end up working so well for me due to resale value
- I'm not against an active system but I like the idea of the upgradability a separates system brings. However, if its absolutely certain that for the same price an active system will beat any passive system I can build I will need to take this suggestion more seriously.
- Regarding the CCA, I feel I'm getting mixed signals. Would I be getting a meaningful difference if I spend some money on an external DAC that would cost ~200-250€ when new as compared to the onboard DAC?

Thanks!
 
After seeing the frequency response of the Lin loudspeakers it is best to start from scratch, whether it is new equipment or not.

An useful link, to search 2nd hand audio equipment: https://www.hifishark.com/

Essentially, it should be mostly flat but it's too far from it to be worth my while to stick with them, right?

Also, yeah, I use hifishark all the time, great site. Looking into Genelec at the moment, as I also do home studio on my spare time (usually through headphones) so it can be a 2 in 1. There seems to be quite the supply here in Sweden as compared to other brands, but still I'd like to have more options to consider if possible.
 
What interesting speakers!

You don't say either way, so I assume you are running the Ninkas in passive mode? If I owned them and wanted to keep them, I would convert to active 3-way, but probably not using Linn's modules for the Magik because they don't offer much control for room correction. Instead I would use a multichannel amp and external DSP. But then I already own a fully active system and am comfortable with all that effort.

The DAC isn't a huge issue, there are lots of options around $100 that beat the chrome cast but whether you can actually hear the difference is debatable.

Otherwise, assuming you want to change the Ninkas for something else, sell them and the Majik to a Linn fan for a decent price. Whatever you get to replace them, please for the love of god get something with room correction. It is the single biggest upgrade for any system.

Maybe the budget would be EUR2000 total? That would get you a MiniDSP Flex for EUR500 (https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex), a measurement microphone (EUR75) and some very nice used Genelec monitors. That also gives the option of adding subwoofers later through the Flex, and also Dirac for automatic room correction instead of doing it yourself (EUR200).

The EUR500 you spend on room correction will improve your sound way more than any other way of spending the money.
 
Perhaps you may go with a used Majik Streamer (15 years old or so!). You can stream your local files and you have perfect Linn Speaker Correction then and also room Correction!
The size of your Speaker is perfect for 20 qm but I presume the not-corrected frequency response not!
 
It would have been a good idea for me to speak about genres too. It's mostly the first; jazz, acoustic, folk and some classical. I would say the recordings are high quality and high DR indeed.

Out of curiosity and lack of knowledge, why would an AB amp be better for this?

As a small extra the best ("subjectively") sounding system I've ever heard (which admitted is not many) was the Linn Keilidhs with the original class A musical fidelity A1. It "felt" really "rich and warm" as compared to my current system. But my system seems to be much better at dynamics and timing, I had the feeling that the Keilidh + A1 got "lost and confused" with quicker and more busy music. Please take the above with a mountain of salt as I know these kinds of descriptions are not very well suited to this forum but it describes my experience well and maybe you can look past the bullsh*t and see something of value.
ALARM BELLS!!!!!

The A1 and Keilidh's was NOT a 'high fidelity' system in the true sense of the term, but a more modern day 'stereogram' with over-rich mid-bass, muffled mids and muted highs (the Keilidh tweeters were a bit 'strong') and an out of control bass, severely rolled off below 100Hz on the vinyl input! MASSIVE distortion (-40s or so) in most A1's as tested at the time (engineered in it seems, knowing the designer's capability).

Had I been the supplying dealer, I'd have showed you what a proper amp could do with these tricky (in passive mode) speakers which were 4 ohms in the bass and mids and around 10 ohms plus up top. Coming at Ninkas knowing many of the UK alternatives as I did back then as well as later Keilidhs driven actively and with live acoustic music as a reference, I'd not have a problem, but as acoustic instruments don't have a smooth soft rich and warm tone, you'd find it very hard to get a 'Hifi' system to emulate that without some eq and maybe a software plug-in or two (passive Keilidhs could have a peak in the low to mid bass I remember which the Ninkas don't have).

The Linn amp just isn't powerful enough to let the music sing when necessary and as I remember the Majik having preamp outs, at the very least a matching LK140 (not so much the LK100 or LK85 in my first hand use of these) would open things up nicely due to the extra power (I'm a huge fan of the Quad 606 family of amps, but I'm muddying the waters a bit here). Of course now, the latest Class D wonder-amps for a few hundred quid from Audiophonics and so on, would be interesting if they can give a reliable 100W+ into a four ohm load.

Anecdote -

I remember one young chap who bought a pair of used Keilidhs to go with his first-gen Rega Brio amp which was underpowered at best even then. He throttled the poor amp hard into the four ohm bass-midrange load and after several fuses blew as a warning, the output stage finally caved in, taking at least two of the four bass units with it. He wasn't pleased, but ignored our prior warnings so had to cough up. I appreciate the Majik amp was more able into tricky loads, but the lack of real power is definitely a thing, especially into speakers like these if the sound isn't to collapse into the boxes. At least I'm certain you have preamp outs on it and as I suggested before, if the mount kits are available and you buy an LK140 to go with it (Lk85 at a pinch), the aktiv cards can be added to make for a simple (for the time) active system, which will refine 'stop-start-mechanical' aspects away into something more realistic sounding (this 'rhythm vs tunes' thing that many popular UK systems of the period and which most of you either deny or simply don't understand, couldn't always combine naturally together I remember).

---

The only speakers I can suggest to give you some of that lush ripe quality you miss, are mid period Harbeth C7's (ES3 version is perfect here) and good working Spendor SP2's, although most now suffer cone-surround hardening which removes the lush ripeness they sonically exhibited when new.
 
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