Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speaker Review

[edechamps]

I have added the Klipsch R-41M to the Loudspeaker Explorer where it can be compared directly with other speakers.

 

[amirm]

You do your listening before measuring, for the obvious reason, right?

Nope.

 

[jtwrace]

Or maybe just buy a better speaker to begin with instead of wasting time modifying a mediocre set of drivers?

That's the preferred of course. However, it would be nice to see if the mods do anything in the improvement dept at all..

 

[tomtoo]

At amazon.de they cost €187.99 a pair.
50€ more i get pair of jbl 305 at thomann.de

That should be a nobrainer. Or you are an audiophile than maybe a tubeamp maybe can make them sing? Who knows?

 

[edechamps]

I'd posted this comparison in another thread. Not trying to get into a measurement drama, just showing for reference on the consistency of these bumps. Same patterns as the Klipsch.

Agreed. The same pattern can be found on other speakers too:

The wiggles are around 3 dB in amplitude so not negligible. They're high-Q though so they're probably not that audible but still, it would be nice to understand what's causing them. At first glance it looks like comb filtering.

 

[MZKM]

You do your listening before measuring, for the obvious reason, right?

That would be ideal. Assuming though that Amir is doing it while the measurements are being crunched, that’s not much worse.

 

[bobbooo]

I'm watching these reviews closely...waiting for the speaker equivalent of a Geshelli amp to appear.

Well the we already have the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, which is in the top 5 of speakers measured so far (when used with a subwoofer), yet costs just $118 a pair.

 

[Thomas_A]

Agreed. The same pattern can be found on other speakers too:

View attachment 50883

The wiggles are around 3 dB in amplitude so not negligible. They're high-Q though so they're probably not that audible but still, it would be nice to understand what's causing them. At first glance it looks like comb filtering.

An experiment would be to wrap some damping material around the microphone holder/attachment.

Cf.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/measurements.htm

 

[dukanvadet]

You do your listening before measuring, for the obvious reason, right?

I trust more in the preference rating than any subjective review so i try to ignore the listening test but if it should have any credibility at all this is very important. Everyone is subject to expectation bias, no amount of training or technical knowledge will cure that.

 

[jaykay77]

I bought these to give the klipsch sound a day in court.
Awful.
Returned same day.

 

[tuga]

Nope.

It would be interesting to see if your assessment matches the target preference curve and how your impressions correlate with general measured performance.

 

[Rockfella]

ROTFL!!!!

 

[gr-e]

Let's assume that the measurement was taken above the optimal axis. In that case, the tweeter would be relatively closer to the mic than the woofer (than it should be), and you would expect to see the woofer's step delayed in relation to the tweeter's.

But what you see is that the tweeter's step is actually delayed in relation to the woofer's. That means that the tweeter is further away than it should be. To get closer to the tweeter (or to be precise, further away from the woofer), you need to move the mic up, not down.

For reference, this is what an ideal step response would look like for a speaker like this (2nd order XO @2kHz, BR box tuned to 80-ish Hz):

View attachment 50876

As you can see, the tweeter is supposed to "hand over" to the woofer (to borrow JA's terminology).

But in this speaker's case, the woofer's output is already arriving at the mic before the tweeter's begins to. The tweeter is around 0.2ms "late" on this measurement axis:

View attachment 50879

The woofer output doesn't arrive before tweeter in a conventional design like this. Even if you have drivers physically aligned, the crossover will delay the woofer response.
That sharp peak at 1.5ms is a part of tweeter response. It's already combined with woofer response at this point, that's why it's so "deep". The wide "mountain" that follows it is a part of woofer's response. You need tho shift it to the left to get rid of this misalignment. (Both drivers are connected in reverse polarity here btw)

 

[D700]

I'm sorry but the review is not over until I hear what Amirm's wife thinks.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The woofer output doesn't arrive before tweeter in a conventional design like this. Even if you have drivers physically aligned, the crossover will delay the woofer response.

I agree. Please re-read my previous post, and note the textbook step response I posted, in which the tweeter's step arrives before the woofer's.

Then compare it to the measured response, in which the woofer's step begins 0.2ms before the tweeter's.

The woofer is clearly 0.2ms early. It needs to be delayed. Moving the mic downwards, and therefore relatively closer to the woofer, will have the opposite effect.

 

[Rockfella]

Someone mentioned in another thread that we should define the 'desired sound curve' by the FRs of the most popular speakers, figuring that sales would show what people most want. I couldn't help thinking that if you went for 'most popular' you'd end up with a Klipsch HTIAB, with these really bright horns.

The Klipschs I have heard were unbearable to me. Shouty/shrilly!

 

[Darkweb]

“The people who incorrectly think everyone's taste in speakers is different can perhaps explain why some people may want every note around 1 kHz in their music to be exaggerated.”

Just curious if of the listening tests done to derive the Harman curve you rate the speakers against, did all of the participants pick the Harman curve exactly or was it an average?

An average would suggest some preferred more energy at 1khz than others.

And just to clarify, the “correct” thinking is that everyone’s taste in speakers is the same?

 

[dukanvadet]

Agreed. The same pattern can be found on other speakers too:

View attachment 50883

The wiggles are around 3 dB in amplitude so not negligible. They're high-Q though so they're probably not that audible but still, it would be nice to understand what's causing them. At first glance it looks like comb filtering.

I see 1db variations that seems consistent between the measurements in that graph. Am i reading it wrong?

 

[stevenswall]

You are wrong and Amazon.com customers are right, they are magnificent American loudspeakers

-1 for America then I suppose. While I respect the research and objective designs from JBL and Kali, I don't consider them to be pushing the envelope anymore, and I typically think of foreign speakers.

Other American companies I can think of are Wilson, Tekton, Zu Audio, and Barefoot. Maybe the last one is good, but I need to test out their monitors once my friend down the street gets some in his studio.

 

[StevenEleven]

“The people who incorrectly think everyone's taste in speakers is different can perhaps explain why some people may want every note around 1 kHz in their music to be exaggerated.”

Just curious if of the listening tests done to derive the Harman curve you rate the speakers against, did all of the participants pick the Harman curve exactly or was it an average?

An average would suggest some preferred more energy at 1khz than others.

And just to clarify, the “correct” thinking is that everyone’s taste in speakers is the same?

Answers galore:

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprod...dp/113892136X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toole+floyd