• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speaker Review

jtwrace

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
1,077
Likes
1,138
Location
Orlando, FL
Or maybe just buy a better speaker to begin with instead of wasting time modifying a mediocre set of drivers?
That's the preferred of course. However, it would be nice to see if the mods do anything in the improvement dept at all..
 

tomtoo

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,065
Likes
2,104
Location
Germany
At amazon.de they cost €187.99 a pair.
50€ more i get pair of jbl 305 at thomann.de

That should be a nobrainer. Or you are an audiophile than maybe a tubeamp maybe can make them sing? Who knows?
 

edechamps

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
729
Likes
2,929
Location
London, United Kingdom
I'd posted this comparison in another thread. Not trying to get into a measurement drama, just showing for reference on the consistency of these bumps. Same patterns as the Klipsch.

Agreed. The same pattern can be found on other speakers too:

visualization(5).png


The wiggles are around 3 dB in amplitude so not negligible. They're high-Q though so they're probably not that audible but still, it would be nice to understand what's causing them. At first glance it looks like comb filtering.
 
Last edited:

Thomas_A

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
1,321
Likes
866
Location
Sweden
Last edited:

dukanvadet

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
45
Likes
56
You do your listening before measuring, for the obvious reason, right?
I trust more in the preference rating than any subjective review so i try to ignore the listening test but if it should have any credibility at all this is very important. Everyone is subject to expectation bias, no amount of training or technical knowledge will cure that.
 

tuga

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
2,774
Likes
2,806
Location
Oxford, England

It would be interesting to see if your assessment matches the target preference curve and how your impressions correlate with general measured performance.
 

gr-e

Active Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
119
Likes
209
Let's assume that the measurement was taken above the optimal axis. In that case, the tweeter would be relatively closer to the mic than the woofer (than it should be), and you would expect to see the woofer's step delayed in relation to the tweeter's.

But what you see is that the tweeter's step is actually delayed in relation to the woofer's. That means that the tweeter is further away than it should be. To get closer to the tweeter (or to be precise, further away from the woofer), you need to move the mic up, not down.

For reference, this is what an ideal step response would look like for a speaker like this (2nd order XO @2kHz, BR box tuned to 80-ish Hz):

View attachment 50876

As you can see, the tweeter is supposed to "hand over" to the woofer (to borrow JA's terminology).

But in this speaker's case, the woofer's output is already arriving at the mic before the tweeter's begins to. The tweeter is around 0.2ms "late" on this measurement axis:

View attachment 50879
The woofer output doesn't arrive before tweeter in a conventional design like this. Even if you have drivers physically aligned, the crossover will delay the woofer response.
That sharp peak at 1.5ms is a part of tweeter response. It's already combined with woofer response at this point, that's why it's so "deep". The wide "mountain" that follows it is a part of woofer's response. You need tho shift it to the left to get rid of this misalignment. (Both drivers are connected in reverse polarity here btw)
1582149473355.png
 

andreasmaaan

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
6,652
Likes
9,137
The woofer output doesn't arrive before tweeter in a conventional design like this. Even if you have drivers physically aligned, the crossover will delay the woofer response.

I agree. Please re-read my previous post, and note the textbook step response I posted, in which the tweeter's step arrives before the woofer's.

Then compare it to the measured response, in which the woofer's step begins 0.2ms before the tweeter's.

The woofer is clearly 0.2ms early. It needs to be delayed. Moving the mic downwards, and therefore relatively closer to the woofer, will have the opposite effect.
 

Rockfella

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
220
Likes
119
Location
Gurgaon. India.
Someone mentioned in another thread that we should define the 'desired sound curve' by the FRs of the most popular speakers, figuring that sales would show what people most want. I couldn't help thinking that if you went for 'most popular' you'd end up with a Klipsch HTIAB, with these really bright horns.
The Klipschs I have heard were unbearable to me. Shouty/shrilly!
 

Darkweb

Active Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
113
Likes
95
“The people who incorrectly think everyone's taste in speakers is different can perhaps explain why some people may want every note around 1 kHz in their music to be exaggerated.”

Just curious if of the listening tests done to derive the Harman curve you rate the speakers against, did all of the participants pick the Harman curve exactly or was it an average?

An average would suggest some preferred more energy at 1khz than others.

And just to clarify, the “correct” thinking is that everyone’s taste in speakers is the same?
 

dukanvadet

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
45
Likes
56
Agreed. The same pattern can be found on other speakers too:

View attachment 50883

The wiggles are around 3 dB in amplitude so not negligible. They're high-Q though so they're probably not that audible but still, it would be nice to understand what's causing them. At first glance it looks like comb filtering.
I see 1db variations that seems consistent between the measurements in that graph. Am i reading it wrong?
 

stevenswall

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
967
Likes
739
Location
Orem, UT
You are wrong and Amazon.com customers are right, they are magnificent American loudspeakers :facepalm:

-1 for America then I suppose. While I respect the research and objective designs from JBL and Kali, I don't consider them to be pushing the envelope anymore, and I typically think of foreign speakers.

Other American companies I can think of are Wilson, Tekton, Zu Audio, and Barefoot. Maybe the last one is good, but I need to test out their monitors once my friend down the street gets some in his studio.
 

StevenEleven

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
566
Likes
1,125
“The people who incorrectly think everyone's taste in speakers is different can perhaps explain why some people may want every note around 1 kHz in their music to be exaggerated.”

Just curious if of the listening tests done to derive the Harman curve you rate the speakers against, did all of the participants pick the Harman curve exactly or was it an average?

An average would suggest some preferred more energy at 1khz than others.

And just to clarify, the “correct” thinking is that everyone’s taste in speakers is the same?

Answers galore:

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprod...dp/113892136X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toole+floyd
 
Top Bottom