Kii THREE Review

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Indeed you can. Proper placement should always be number 1 priority if possible. If not then one should consider speakers more suitable for your situation or proper acoustic treatment to help out.

Since i only have a skype call microphone i used them for seaching for huge cancelations only, i finded a cancelation at 125hz~ but there is only one position in my room that the cheap microphone doesn't measure the cancelation and also subjective sound a lot better, i don't know at which point i got it right, but i moved the speakers A LOT.

Im pretty happy but im always wonder how much of these bad things are hidden

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Can you share some of these graphs please, what you are saying makes intuitive sense to me, it would great to see evidence from the real world.

Absolutely not in this thread, this is a review on a different speaker fro a different manufacturer. Out of respect for the work of others - and my own speakers.

I may put up some more on this on my own page, I already have one article on this subject, and it shows mostly that it is not easy to present the data to show the difference in a good way.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Bandwidth-limited to below 200 hz? Nothing. The greatest benefit I ever experienced in the low frequencies was achieved by placing two subwoofers on the floor crossed to Kii at 200 hz, effectively reducing floor bounce cancellation and increasing the capacity.

Full-range the benefit was very clear with more clarity and impact from the upper bass/lower mids compared to Phantom silver.

As expected. Any decent sound system need a separate bass-system.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

If you have measured this with the same speaker with and without dispersion control and calibrated to the same frequency response, it would be very interesting to see the effects below 2-300 hz.

Yes, it was very interesting.

Having worked on this for quite some time now, during development of the F105 first and then the F205, it is evident that radiation control alone does not remove the effects on the frequency response from the room. To the extent that I questioned whether the benefits are worth the effort, early in this process.

But working on the F205, showed that there indeed is a difference. A difference in sound, and this difference can be measured, but it does not necessarily show up in a simple frequency response graph.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Bandwidth-limited to below 200 hz? Nothing. The greatest benefit I ever experienced in the low frequencies was achieved by placing two subwoofers on the floor crossed to Kii at 200 hz, effectively reducing floor bounce cancellation and increasing the capacity.

In the article I wrote about the F205, I say something like: "you may not even notice if you close the ports, but if you remove the HF horn and replace it with a traditional direct-radiating dome, you will for sure hear a difference."

A bass-system with units placed close to boundaries is another such solution, that has great impact on sound quality. In this context, the ports/cardioid is just one of several functionalities on the speaker system, and this may not be the most important. At least not, until you have fixed other, larger, problems first.

 

[edhamgtr]

If you have the space which one is more true to the recording? How do you find their difference on elevated spl?

ATC 150's plus trinnov in a well treated room would be my pick for most deeply detailed, accurate monitor, given enough space for them.
But that's a guess as Trinnov wasn't a consideration when I had my large mastering room, and now I don't. (150's have been in storage for 5 years now).

8c's are beautiful sounding speakers. Just a touch soft in the upper mids, which is were a lot of detail is for mixing/mastering.
I could have certainly learned them and lived happily with them.

Kii's just delivered the best masters straight away from day one. They fit the way I hear music while not flattering my tendencies.
I also listen at very close distance and don't need a ton of volume out of them and I didn't push the 8c's that hard since I sit close.

all this of course is imho and I'm usually wrong about everything - so there's that to consider ....

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Can you share some of these graphs please, what you are saying makes intuitive sense to me, it would great to see evidence from the real world.

I have updated an article on this subject, so I posted some new pictures in a thread I made on this forum, for the article:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-with-in-room-measurements.21508/post-1006905

Note that this is not the same speaker - the CD (the controlled one) is a different speaker from the trad - so there will be many other differences, causing it difficult to say exactly if the cardioid/directivity-below-1K is the only reason the sound and measure different.

 

[Absolute]

@Kvalsvoll The best I can do right now is equalized responses of Kii+subs vs Klipsch RP160M + subs and the resulting impulse responses.

Kii is blue;

 

[fluid]

@Kvalsvoll The best I can do right now is equalized responses of Kii+subs vs Klipsch RP160M + subs and the resulting impulse responses.

If you still have the REW files you could post the decay plots with the same settings that Kvalsvoll has used in most of his graphs
- Slice interval 20ms, window 500ms, Rise-time 20ms. 1/12 smoothing.

 

[MdeVelde]

Placement close to the wall would not change the sound power at all in a significant way. It will only change the on-axis response.

Yes it will change the sound power in a significant way.
The 8C was designed so that the bass which gets boosted by the wall is in-phase and above middle bass it is cardioid so you don't get reflection comb filtering (why you would usually not place speakers close to the wall). It is then DSP EQ corrected to be flat on-axis again.
The result is a much flatter power response. Very big difference.

Again, the 8C was specifically designed for this.
The unique cardioid raditiation design and subwoofers at the back are what makes this work.

 

[abdo123]

Yes it will change the sound power in a significant way.
The 8C was designed so that the bass which gets boosted by the wall is in-phase and above middle bass it is cardioid so you don't get reflection comb filtering (why you would usually not place speakers close to the wall). It is then DSP EQ corrected to be flat on-axis again.
The result is a much flatter power response. Very big difference.

Again, the 8C was specifically designed for this.
The unique cardioid raditiation design and subwoofers at the back are what makes this work.

the frequency of the comb filtering is angle specific, since the sound power is the summation of the response from different angles the comb filtering will get smoothed out.

 

[Soniclife]

I don't think this diagram applies to a speaker like the 8c, that dip at 200 would be different, and much more similar to the half space diagram for the 8c.

 

[abdo123]

I don't think this diagram applies to a speaker like the 8c, that dip at 200 would be different, and much more similar to the half space diagram for the 8c.

I agree. perhaps you didn't read the comment i was replying to..

 

[Soniclife]

I agree. perhaps you didn't read the comment i was replying to..

I did, and I agree with that post. Were you also agreeing with it?

 

[hvbias]

Being a bit cheeky here, any update @hardisj for what you thought of D&D 8c vs Kii Three? Thanks

 

[Emlin]

Kii/Bruno claim that the acoustic centre is half way up (or down) the speaker, rather than between tweeter and midrange, and a couple of inches out, as a virtual point source. Does that change things at all?

 

[thewas]

Visit at the new Kii Audio headquarters (article in German language):

Firmenbericht: Kii Audio in Hamminkeln - Hausmesse & Probehören | fairaudio

25. Mai, 05:20 Uhr in der Früh. Die Reise aus Stuttgart nach Hamminkeln am Niederrhein beginnt. Ziel ist die Hausmesse in der neuen Firmenzentrale von Kii Audio (www.kiiaudio.com), wo nicht nur manufakturhaft gefertigt, sondern vor allem sehr eigenständig gedacht wird. Wenn ein Hersteller seinen...

www.fairaudio.de

 

[ferrellms]

Link:

Kii Audio THREE Review

Kii Audio THREE 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

View attachment 169247

Erin's conclusion:


My reaction...

UPDATE:
@hardisj Heads up, you've mislabelled "vertical contour plots" (normalized vs non-normalized).

I just found Kii 3's used and was able to purchase them at a price I could afford. My impression - the raves are valid. In my fairly small treated room they kill my "best system I ever heard" carefully set up near-field Genelec 8040/SVS system in terms of bass quality and imaging (although tonality is similarly neutral, with some coloration thickness apparent in the Genelecs in lower mids probably due to SBIR, this lack of coloration is probably what causes some to call the Kiis "thin"). So precise and 3-dimensional and realistic, with all kinds of music from electronic to orchestral classical to pop to jazz, AND in the mid-field. Much more revealing - every recording I have listened to has better detail (particularly in the bass) than I got with the Genelecs and SVS. Fantastic! I can't imagine buying anything more - perhaps the BXTs, if I ever get a big room. (I have not heard any other cardioid speakers with which to compare them, which may have similar qualities.)

The lack of SBIR due to the cardioid design must be the reason.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes I believe cardioid is a positive benefit, speakers with a cardioid response have much tidier measurements, than non cardioid measured in the same positions.
Keith

 

[kleijnforstm]

Yes I believe cardioid is a positive benefit, speakers with a cardioid response have much tidier measurements, than non cardioid measured in the same positions.
Keith

hello, help me with a question. which dutch 8c or kii three speaker would be better in a bad raw room, untreated room. Which one will measure better close to the wall .
should i buy a measuring microphone like umic m1 for these speakers?

thank you.