KEF Reference and Blade Meta announced, but where is the R Meta?????

[Arc Acoustics]

You are comparing your diy design with something like kef which is backed up by real acoustic engineers, who has PHD in what they are doing with real simulations and measurements in controlled rooms ? Lol ! I don’t think none of the other companies have half of the engineering breaks throughs like kef pulled off.

Sorry, you are simply not at my level.

 

[MarkWinston]

Arc Acoustics, come up with a speaker and ship it to Amir. I will pay for the shipping from wherever you are to Amir and back if its better measuring than the Blade Metas.

 

[Zvu]

You are comparing your diy design with something like kef which is backed up by real acoustic engineers, who has PHD in what they are doing with real simulations and measurements in controlled rooms ? Lol ! I don’t think none of the other companies have half of the engineering breaks throughs like kef pulled off.

Trend of underestimating people based on possession or a type of their degree is insane

Ask Martin Mejsink (Dutch&Dutch), Mads Buchardt (Buchardt audio), Laurence Dickie (Vivid audio) or Siegfried Linkwitz (Rip) if they have degree in acoustics or PHD.

 

[Frgirard]

Sorry, you are simply not at my level.

No need for a PhD or an engineering degree to be a carpenter.
Make so many noises for a domain that failed to create the woofer without warping and breaking or The broadband 20Hz 20KHz.

 

[Frgirard]

Trend of underestimating people based on possession or a type of their degree is insane

Ask Martin Mejsink (Dutch&Dutch), Mads Buchardt (Buchardt audio), Laurence Dickie (Vivid audio) or Siegfried Linkwitz (Rip) if they have degree in acoustics or PHD.

I knew many PhD in the audiophile market telling crazy thing about the cd or the cable.
I have known electricians without a big diploma more rational than these PHDs.

 

[Zvu]

I knew many PhD in the audiophile market telling crazy thing about the cd or the cable.
I have known electricians without a big diploma more rational than these PHDs.

My point exactly.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

So many carpenters claiming his diy speakers to be the best, but nobody want to send his diy to any Klippel NFS user

 

[Arc Acoustics]

Arc Acoustics, come up with a speaker and ship to Amir. I will pay for the shipping from where you are to Amir and back if its better measuring than the Blade Meta.

That is really generous offer (if shipping for Erin, not the panther because of "some" very good reason), but this loudspeaker is for my client.

Trend of underestimating people based on possession or a type of their degree is insane

Well, people who do not have the ability to ascertain wrong or right with their own head tend to depend on degree, status or their possession.
And it is something I can not blame, I mean, I once ate garbage with bloody Michelin star.

 

[YSC]

Well, a 2dB discrepancy of the LW from the on-axis means a relatively large deviation inside the LW.
DI (not LWDI) hitting around 11dB in the top octave suggesting narrowing as well, which they filled by 2dB bump of on-axis response.
Truly good design never need this kind of shoddy trick.


First thing first, what I designed is completely irrelevant to what KEF does.
Second, as I wrote in the notes section of it, the current simulated data has 1/24 resolution, which satisfy the CTA-2034-A (1/20 oct), not bloody 1/3 oct BS.
The previous data I posted (attached below) was the actual measurement of the tweeter and squawker section, which I was not satisfied with.
(Gating causes unavoidable smoothing but not problem in the mid-high freq.)


Oh sh*t! It was almost a year ago!

Just jump in and saw your arguments, firstly I have to say your choice of words looks pretty offending and assulting to others, which is not really constructive.

Been curious and jumped into the data in your signature, it looked really very smoothed to me, even Genelec with 1/12 won't go remotely to that smooth curve looks, no idea what smoothing is used so I won't accuse, but from this reply seems it's a simulated result in your design? I am no expert in designing or sound science, but from what I dwelled around for more than a decade of photography, even camera lens won't really go so near to computed resolution due to all sort of real world construction tolerances, minor defects in material etc. which I believe in audio the margin of error would even be larger, especially when really driven by some amp which unavoidably will cause so very small variations here and there. I would be really interested to see thrid party reviewing or measuring your product, self generated plots don't do much if anything to real world perfection.

Back to the topic, I peprsonally sees the KEF own measurement of the Blade One and Blade Two, both looked insanely good to me considered they are passives so no neumann, genel, D&D, Kii etc. DSP magic to fine tune the micro variations. I am sure KEF did have some duds, I have and still is using a X300A as my TV speaker and they although not really hifi still sounded quite good in real life use. Coaxial is difficult to get that perfect, but I would say for home HiFi I would really prefer coaxial to normal 2/3/4 way designs, yes those can be extremely good also and optimizing to the MLP is same level of effort needed. But with coaxial speakers it's easier for a family or a group of friends come and enjoy music or music together without much listening window constraints, which is more important to myself than the real world FR which usually is all around the place and not remotely +/-3db.

 

[nothingman]

Just jump in and saw your arguments, firstly I have to say your choice of words looks pretty offending and assulting to others, which is not really constructive.

Hear, hear. Exhausting, off-putting, disrespectful.

 

[steve59]

I listed my snow white blades on usam a few weeks ago when a local dealer text me a heads up about the metas coming on 2/17. If I really wanted to sell them I would have went on A'gon. I don't really understand the hype surrounding spins? Do better spins make placement easier or will the speakers sound more like they're designed to in more rooms? Listening to these I don't hear anything I want different and i've had the salon 2's along with several other special speakers to compare. Maybe axpona will actually happen this year and I can hear the new metas in person.

 

[Descartes]

I listed my snow white blades on usam a few weeks ago when a local dealer text me a heads up about the metas coming on 2/17. If I really wanted to sell them I would have went on A'gon. I don't really understand the hype surrounding spins? Do better spins make placement easier or will the speakers sound more like they're designed to in more rooms? Listening to these I don't hear anything I want different and i've had the salon 2's along with several other special speakers to compare. Maybe axpona will actually happen this year and I can hear the new metas in person.

Link please

 

[Crosstalk]

I listed my snow white blades on usam a few weeks ago when a local dealer text me a heads up about the metas coming on 2/17. If I really wanted to sell them I would have went on A'gon. I don't really understand the hype surrounding spins? Do better spins make placement easier or will the speakers sound more like they're designed to in more rooms? Listening to these I don't hear anything I want different and i've had the salon 2's along with several other special speakers to compare. Maybe axpona will actually happen this year and I can hear the new metas in person.

Why did you list them on usam if you didn’t want to sell them?

 

[steve59]

Why did you list them on usam if you didn’t want to sell them?

I don't know, I also have a pair of meridian dsp 8000se and one of the two will have to go eventually. I need to bring in one of the big M's for service then I will have to make the tough decision. I don't doubt the blade resale was better b4 the meta release. That's the best I can unscramble out of my thinking.

 

[steve59]

descartes, I can turn the listing back on for you to see. then just go to us audio mart and search kef blade.

I will be taking it back down, at least til the big meridians are working then one or the other will go.

 

[jonfitch]

So are the new reference series actually slightly wider in directivity, or is it just brighter off-axis? I'm not sure how to read the measurements that well.

 

[Arc Acoustics]

...even Genelec with 1/12 won't go remotely to that smooth curve looks
...even camera lens won't really go so near to computed resolution due to all sort of real world construction tolerances, minor defects in material etc. which I believe in audio the margin of error would even be larger, especially when really driven by some amp which unavoidably will cause so very small variations here and there. I would be really interested to see thrid party reviewing or measuring your product, self generated plots don't do much if anything to real world perfection.

First, I'm not talking about my design, I'm continuously talking and explain about how KEF "shows" their products.

Talking about the smoothness, what Genelec and Neumann are doing is mass-producing with good consistency, which is whole another level from just making a mere "masterpiece".

About the lens, the camera lens would be far trickier because the wavelength is much much shorter, they are controlling the behaviour of the rays using multiple materials (the air and fluorite, you posh!), once you should think in the 3D space, it would be a literal nightmare.
That's why our sight is "focused" compared to our hearing by the way.

My physical measurement of the test piece (which does not include the woofer) is here.
It is actually measured by the client, so this is the second party measurement.
It was near one year ago and after this test, I changed whole parameters, so it does not match at all to the current simulation.

View attachment 120575

I'd like to see the second party or third party, or even first party measurements of KEFs, with PROPER graphs though.

Back to the topic, I peprsonally sees the KEF own measurement of the Blade One and Blade Two, both looked insanely good

The problem is, we can not and we should not say about the directivity of them because they are not normalized.
Let me show an example, this directivity looks "insanely good", even compared to the Blade Meta, isn't it?

Hurray, You're SO LUCKY!!
This is LS50 Meta with some simple convolution, you saved 95%!!

That's why I am saying an un-normalized polar plot is an inappropriate and maybe an evil way to show directivity.
Recent KEFs does not have particularly bad directivity, they're not this blunt, but they are certainly having the advantage of this kind of "trick".
If you guys do not willing to understand this "potential danger" of an un-normalized polar plot, it's okay, it's the world you like to see.

 

[KMO]

You are mind-bogglingly bad at explaining what you're trying to say.

Of course the LS50 Meta has incredibly good directivity - it's an isolated Uni-Q in a custom minimal-compromise single-Uni-Q enclosure. I'd expect it to be right up there with the Reference and Blade.

It's trading off frequency response and low-end distortion to get that...

 

[Arc Acoustics]

You are mind-bogglingly bad at explaining what you're trying to say.

Well, you maybe just mind-bogglingly bad at understanding what I'm trying to say.

 

[Sancus]

I hope you guys realize you're just feeding a troll.