Gounsbairg
Member
Deleted.
Last edited:
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
KEF R8 Meta Dolby Atmos Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
My comment was in relation to the R8 Meta, the subject of this thread.€ 1600 was the price of the 'old' R3.
R3 Meta costs €2200 / pair VAT included.
R3 Meta
Verhoog uw audio -ervaring naar nieuwe hoogten met KEF R3 meta -luidsprekers. Dompel jezelf onder in het geluid, waar Precision Engineering zich voortegenwoordig maakt voor prachtige geluidskwaliteit.nl.kef.com
R3 Meta
R3 Meta redefines bookshelf speaker’s performance. Sharing the same drivers as the range-topping R11 Meta, the R3 Meta is a true three-way design. It has a 12th generation Uni-Q® driver array with MAT™ and a powerful 6.5” hybrid aluminium bass driver that pushes performance to new extremes.
I suspect that the interface where the the cone’s edge meets the rubber surround is responsible for dip seen around 1.5KHz.
It is a common issue that affects many mid-woofers with big roll surround, Eg. LS50 loudspeaker. It is anisotropic, so with DSP you can improve it somewhat but you can’t fully massage this out, because it exhibits different characteristics at different directions.
The midrange specific driver eg. Coaxial from the R3 Meta has a smaller surround with a different profile optimised to be free of this. The downside is that as low as 100Hz ( as the midwoofer ). Which is why all the other models have a dedicated midwoofer.
So it’s an engineering trade off.
@amirm I’m 110% certain that it is NOT a Dolby requirement. Are you using AI to assist with writing this article?
I wonder if a CTA2034A measurement is a value measurement for this type of “pop on top of another” type speaker…
As a surround based speaker sitting atop a front speaker, it would be very interesting to see what the measurement as the typical listening position may be…
It is a common issue that affects many mid-woofers with big roll surround, Eg. LS50 loudspeaker. It is anisotropic, so with DSP you can improve it somewhat but you can’t fully massage this out, because it exhibits different characteristics at different directions.
The midrange specific driver eg. Coaxial from the R3 Meta has a smaller surround with a different profile optimised to be free of this. The downside is that as low as 100Hz ( as the midwoofer ). Which is why all the other models have a dedicated midwoofer.
So it’s an engineering trade off.
@amirm I’m 110% certain that it is NOT a Dolby requirement. Are you using AI to assist with writing this article?
I wonder if a CTA2034A measurement is a value measurement for this type of “pop on top of another” type speaker…
As a surround based speaker sitting atop a front speaker, it would be very interesting to see what the measurement as the typical listening position may be…
Last edited:
Jukebox
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2020
- Messages
- 196
- Likes
- 360
He already did 2 months ago in the Kef R Meta Series Release topic:
"Just to make you aware, the R8 META is a certified by Dolby for use as an Atmos Upward-Firing Speaker. It's designed to hit strict frequency response and directivity targets specified by Dolby so it works optimally in this situation. Keep this in mind when looking at objective data as they're not the same targets we use for our other loudspeakers."
Here is what the Dolby specified crossover looks like for the up-firing speakers:
It replicates the HRTF for making things sound as if they are coming from above you. If used for upfiring, this would need to be added with EQ (this is Audyssey MQX).
Personally, I would highly recommend that people don't do that. This is a fantastic speaker that would be easily mountable on your front and rear walls as height speakers (no goofy EQ needed, better positioning and much better sound).
Attachments
I am still surprised with Atmos being so prevalent for so long, there is still so much mystery around speaker requirements (and proper placement as well):
Sections 2.5.x. - 2.8.x
In addition, the Dolby Audio Room Design Tool mentioned therein, makes it easy to find the required speaker capability(s) for an individual room.
In short Dolby Atmos overhead speaker specification is they are to be full range or bass managed, have 17dB above reference output capability, be within +/- 3dB from 40-18Khz, and have wide dispersion. Whether or not mixers actually take advantage of these capabilities is up to them, but be aware if you go "cheap" on the overheads, you are leaving lots of performance on the table if they do.
I am surprised at the midrange dip seemingly built into this speaker. KEF seems to be the type of company that would not let this out the door, I do hope an explanation or corrective action is coming.
In regards to upfiring Atmos speakers...I simply fail to see how those can create the phantoms necessary for proper spatial placement.
Sections 2.5.x. - 2.8.x
In addition, the Dolby Audio Room Design Tool mentioned therein, makes it easy to find the required speaker capability(s) for an individual room.
In short Dolby Atmos overhead speaker specification is they are to be full range or bass managed, have 17dB above reference output capability, be within +/- 3dB from 40-18Khz, and have wide dispersion. Whether or not mixers actually take advantage of these capabilities is up to them, but be aware if you go "cheap" on the overheads, you are leaving lots of performance on the table if they do.
I am surprised at the midrange dip seemingly built into this speaker. KEF seems to be the type of company that would not let this out the door, I do hope an explanation or corrective action is coming.
In regards to upfiring Atmos speakers...I simply fail to see how those can create the phantoms necessary for proper spatial placement.
Last edited:
Vacceo
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2022
- Messages
- 3,174
- Likes
- 3,404
Considering the frequency range, very few overhead or height speakers can reach 40 Hz by themselves. I actually wonder if that is even necessary having subwoofers.
Bass managed is part of the mentioned spec (i.e. use of subwoofer to extend the LF capability of the speakers if necessary).
Last edited:
thewas
Master Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2020
- Messages
- 7,911
- Likes
- 21,738
Neither the original LS50 nor LS50 Meta or other recent 2-way Uni-Qs have such a wide and deep dip there, so I am sure its a conscious tuning choice from KEF, would be interesting to know the reasons.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
how is this supoused to work with a vertical relativly wide like this? you will probably get a lot of direct sound from it.
but the driver is superb
but the driver is superb
Chilli
Member
What an interesting speaker. Thanks for taking the time to align it for measurement. These do seem more effort. I wondered on the usefulness and application, but looking at the results makes me more interested in Dolby atmos than before, so kudos to Kef.
maybe the suck out above 1k is to limit midrange interference with other speakers in the room. Esp centre speaker. Afterall, these are effects speakers mainly. I guess we shall see. Would have thought this would be taken care of in the object-based spatial dsp stuff, rather than the speaker though.
We are all now curious to how the other meta speakers might measure like after seeing the dispersion on this. Hella pricey, though.
As mentioned above, are we looking for this in a good atmos speaker, or one that beams. I guess that depends how big the room and where people are sitting.
maybe the suck out above 1k is to limit midrange interference with other speakers in the room. Esp centre speaker. Afterall, these are effects speakers mainly. I guess we shall see. Would have thought this would be taken care of in the object-based spatial dsp stuff, rather than the speaker though.
We are all now curious to how the other meta speakers might measure like after seeing the dispersion on this. Hella pricey, though.
As mentioned above, are we looking for this in a good atmos speaker, or one that beams. I guess that depends how big the room and where people are sitting.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2019
- Messages
- 12,485
- Likes
- 18,004
I think the R8a (dont think there is/was an R8a Meta) was the previous (non meta) incarnation judging by Kef's site- shows as a lot cheaper and sold out.
These speakers are clearly well designed.
However, there are obvious issues with this bouncy sound.
Placed on-top of a speaker they can interfere with each other.
There has to be loss for distance to the ceiling and loss for bouncing.
I don't think 6 dB is out of the question, so this speaker needs (at least IMO), 4x the power handling, not tested here.
It is reasonable to measure speakers, but up firing speakers are in the snake oil category.
Dolby Atmos is a marketing machine with very little regard to implementation.
For $$ you get the Atmos label. This cannot be argued as my ThinkPad has the Atmos logo, clearly ridiculous.
If mounted to aim at the listener, I'd give them a fine/good.
If mounted to bounce, then the wide dispersion is a negative. I'd give them poor because the concept is bad.
Bouncy sound for Atmos is where the product becomes all marketing and deserves to be called Crapmos.
- Rich
However, there are obvious issues with this bouncy sound.
Placed on-top of a speaker they can interfere with each other.
There has to be loss for distance to the ceiling and loss for bouncing.
I don't think 6 dB is out of the question, so this speaker needs (at least IMO), 4x the power handling, not tested here.
It is reasonable to measure speakers, but up firing speakers are in the snake oil category.
Dolby Atmos is a marketing machine with very little regard to implementation.
For $$ you get the Atmos label. This cannot be argued as my ThinkPad has the Atmos logo, clearly ridiculous.
If mounted to aim at the listener, I'd give them a fine/good.
If mounted to bounce, then the wide dispersion is a negative. I'd give them poor because the concept is bad.
Bouncy sound for Atmos is where the product becomes all marketing and deserves to be called Crapmos.
- Rich
Last edited:
Hi.
When a non-essential speaker measures that well, it bodes well for the other in the lineup!. Congrats.
And now to You! Kef management/people , who are reading this forum ....
Please send the R3, R5 and R11 Meta versions, for review.. Please. Yes! You, Kef People! Your engineering is as good as they get, and it seems that your speakers are exemplary, but .. come on! send some. One from time to time, not your subwoofers, this segment is covered at lesser cost by other companies. Or are your subwoofers that good too? Nah!!
Peace
When a non-essential speaker measures that well, it bodes well for the other in the lineup!. Congrats.
And now to You!
Kef management/people , who are reading this forum ....Please send the R3, R5 and R11 Meta versions, for review.. Please. Yes! You, Kef People! Your engineering is as good as they get, and it seems that your speakers are exemplary, but .. come on! send some. One from time to time, not your subwoofers, this segment is covered at lesser cost by other companies
. Or are your subwoofers that good too? Nah!! Peace
HarmonicTHD
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2022
- Messages
- 3,326
- Likes
- 4,920
Excellent driver obviously (as we see also in other KEF products), not sure though if that ceiling reflection thing really works for height channels. Does anyone has some data on that?
Similar threads
- Poll
