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KEF R5 Meta worthy upgrade to Dynaudio Audience 72?

I feel like I'm missing something...

Three different people are pushing for the Q series while I've expressed a somewhat clear indication that I'm interested in the R series.
Could you elaborate on reasons why? Do you think they're going to offer the same quality? By reading around it seemed to me that the tonality is not the only thing that matters, there are other indicators from other measurements.
Or is Kef sticking to scientific measurements for speaker design but then tries to sell the R series as added snake oil when compared to the Q series.

Help me understand your point of view. I don't want to waste money. But I'd like to get the best I can for the budget I have. Thanks.
Just identifying that objective data suggests that one can get most of the qualities (if not more) of the R series in the new Q Metas with significant savings. Not having been involved in a DBT of these speakers, that is all we can do. Also, it would not be the first time that a company produces a more inexpensive product that canibalizes sales of their premium offering, just because something is more expensive doesn't necessarily mean it's better - even from the same brand.

If you have the means - go with the Rs. At the very least you will forgo the FOMO brain worm that may set in.
 
I really like the way you've looked into this, and the good way you're curious as to why you've been steered towards the Q series, so I'll be interested to see what you end up with, and why.

Good luck!
Thanks for the kind words. As you can see I went about this rather quickly (but I have read A LOT in the past few weeks). The chance to snatch R7 at that price seemed good enough not to let it go…
 
https://www.spinorama.org/?page=1&search=Kef

I suspect the R series would have lower distortion compared to the Q series. If I were you, I’d prioritize speaker type, then measurements. This assumes you set a budget and stick to it.

Edit: I have R3s for LCR. I flipped the L and R upside down because, like you, I have a center channel lower than the others. This made the tweeters closer to the same height.

I understand why people suggest floorstanding speakers, but sometimes controlling bass from subs (plural) is easier and better use of funds.
 
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Found new open box R7 Meta for the price of R5 Meta. Went with that.

Now to understand if they could benefit from an added amplifier or if the Denon 3800H would be enough, considering subs crossed over at 80Hz.
Great find! According to specs, the R7 should not be too far in extension from the R11. Adding a subwoofer or 2 will not hurt for the simple reason that your room probably has room modes, and subwoofers are a nice way to fill the gaps. With that covered, try using both the Denon internal amplification and external if you can.

It´s a matter of how loud you want them playing and if the Denon gives you the total volume you want, that should be it.
 
Adding a subwoofer or 2 will not hurt for the simple reason that your room probably has room modes, and subwoofers are a nice way to fill the gaps.
Yup, I already have two SVS SB1000, which are placed besides the two front speakers. Use Dirac Live Bass Control to integrate them.
Thinking about adding a third larger one (probably SVS SB2000) and place that along a side wall.
My main interest is not extra loud volume but a tight and controlled bass with as uniform a response as I can get.

I may ask this question on a different thread but if people here know the answer, thanks for answering: if I buy external amps, I could get a stereo amp and a mono amp, so as to have LCR (R7 and R6) on the same quality amplification.

These are two products I am considering (wattage is probably excessive and I need to reconsider that but the following question remains):


They both have trigger input, to turn on together with the AVR (which has trigger output). Problem is… if I use two amps how can I trigger them both if the AVR has a single trigger output? Are there splitters for this purpose?

Answered myself: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cables-jack-jack/dual-trigger-cable-1-5m-p-20241.html
 
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Yup, I already have two SVS SB1000, which are placed besides the two front speakers. Use Dirac Live Bass Control to integrate them.
Thinking about adding a third larger one (probably SVS SB3000) and place that along a side wall.
My main interest is not extra loud volume but a tight and controlled bass with as uniform a response as I can get.

I may ask this question on a different thread but if people here know the answer, thanks for answering: if I buy external amps, I could get a stereo amp and a mono amp, so as to have LCR (R7 and R6) on the same quality amplification.

These are two products I am considering (wattage is probably excessive and I need to reconsider that but the following question remains):


They both have trigger input, to turn on together with the AVR (which has trigger output). Problem is… if I use two amps how can I trigger them both if the AVR has a single trigger output? Are there splitters for this purpose?

Answered myself: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cables-jack-jack/dual-trigger-cable-1-5m-p-20241.html
You can daisy-chain them: AVR to first amp, first amp to second amp.

The R7´s, by manual, recommend up to 400 Watts. Honestly, going for 500 is not that, that massive, particularly if you´re not pushing the speakers to its max volume. I´d not worry about having extra power, you´re not going overboard.

I´d not go for mono amps unless I´d have a single speaker to amplify. Crosstalk on those NCore´s from Audiophonics is not an issue at all. Do not get extra boxes for the sake of extra boxes.
 
Found new open box R7 Meta for the price of R5 Meta. Went with that.

Now to understand if they could benefit from an added amplifier or if the Denon 3800H would be enough, considering subs crossed over at 80Hz.
Nice! R7 Meta would likely be my KEF choice if I could swing it. And R11 is just too tall, anyway.
 
You can daisy-chain them: AVR to first amp, first amp to second amp.
So two regular cables? AVR-->1st Amp-->2nd Amp?

The R7´s, by manual, recommend up to 400 Watts. Honestly, going for 500 is not that, that massive, particularly if you´re not pushing the speakers to its max volume. I´d not worry about having extra power, you´re not going overboard.

I´d not go for mono amps unless I´d have a single speaker to amplify. Crosstalk on those NCore´s from Audiophonics is not an issue at all. Do not get extra boxes for the sake of extra boxes.
I get what you say about power but not the second part. If I want to amp LCR I need three channels of amplification, that's why I thought one stereo amp (for L and R) plus one mono amp (for C).
Didn't find good amps for three channels at similar prices in Europe. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
 
Thanks for the kind words. As you can see I went about this rather quickly (but I have read A LOT in the past few weeks). The chance to snatch R7 at that price seemed good enough not to let it go…
Nice find on the R7!

I hope you can report back on how you get on with it?

Enjoy!
 
So two regular cables? AVR-->1st Amp-->2nd Amp?


I get what you say about power but not the second part. If I want to amp LCR I need three channels of amplification, that's why I thought one stereo amp (for L and R) plus one mono amp (for C).
Didn't find good amps for three channels at similar prices in Europe. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
Your alternative option of a forked cable works too. Whatever is most convenient. As long as the cables are mono, you should be fine (use specific cables for triggers, they are not expensive, so nothing particularly funky is needed).

If you´re amplifiying three channels, you indeed need a mono and a stereo amp. Audiophonics does not manufacture 3 channel amps, but Apollon Audio does. They use both Hypex and Purifi modules, but they are more expensive than Audiophonics. They aren´t bad amps at all and the manufacturing quality is top notch too. They are also European made, so import taxes and so on shouldn´t apply either.

Absolutely, I will. Between the R7 and R6, the amps, the third sub... I have some work cut out for me.
Will you add extra channels for a complete sorround system? Because if you have the room and the capacity to do so, it´s really itching... ;)
 
If you´re amplifiying three channels, you indeed need a mono and a stereo amp. Audiophonics does not manufacture 3 channel amps, but Apollon Audio does. They use both Hypex and Purifi modules, but they are more expensive than Audiophonics. They aren´t bad amps at all and the manufacturing quality is top notch too. They are also European made, so import taxes and so on shouldn´t apply either.
Yeah, they're just much more expensive. Is there a negative by going with stereo+mono, as opposed to using a single 3 channels amp? Apart from an extra power supply and its cable to manage, I mean.

Will you add extra channels for a complete sorround system? Because if you have the room and the capacity to do so, it´s really itching...
My current system is already 5.2.4. The surrounds are Dynaudio Audience 42W and the four Atmos speakers (ceiling mounted and pointing at MLP with angles within Atmos specs) are Polk Atrium 5. I have found both to be up to the task, so far. Perception is Dirac does a great job in matching them to the front Dynaudio. Obviously the Polk are not great quality speakers but they are not crap either and, for Atmos duties, I feel they can suffice.

Edit: also, as far as the surrounds are concerned, the 42W are good and, more importantly, fit perfectly in the "cross pointing at MLP" positioning approach I'm using, to avoid too much localization for the two seats next to mine (most of the time they are unoccupied but still...). They are tall and shallow (if you look at the specs you'll notice their reduced depth). I don't see speakers from KEF (or others, to be honest) with that form factor anymore.

Edit 2: I could *probably* make a couple of LS50 work in the available space but I'm not sure the gain, if any, would be worth the added expense, honestly. Even though, looking at Amir's review... they appear to be *seriously* good. Have you by chance sworn an oath to destroy my finances? :D
 
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And now I can't find a dealer that carries the R6 Meta... if you know of any in European Union, please link to them.
I think I'll order directly from eu.kef.com...
 
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Yeah, they're just much more expensive. Is there a negative by going with stereo+mono, as opposed to using a single 3 channels amp? Apart from an extra power supply and its cable to manage, I mean.


My current system is already 5.2.4. The surrounds are Dynaudio Audience 42W and the four Atmos speakers (ceiling mounted and pointing at MLP with angles within Atmos specs) are Polk Atrium 5. I have found both to be up to the task, so far. Perception is Dirac does a great job in matching them to the front Dynaudio. Obviously the Polk are not great quality speakers but they are not crap either and, for Atmos duties, I feel they can suffice.

Edit: also, as far as the surrounds are concerned, the 42W are good and, more importantly, fit perfectly in the "cross pointing at MLP" positioning approach I'm using, to avoid too much localization for the two seats next to mine (most of the time they are unoccupied but still...). They are tall and shallow (if you look at the specs you'll notice their reduced depth). I don't see speakers from KEF (or others, to be honest) with that form factor anymore.

Edit 2: I could *probably* make a couple of LS50 work in the available space but I'm not sure the gain, if any, would be worth the added expense, honestly. Even though, looking at Amir's review... they appear to be *seriously* good. Have you by chance sworn an oath to destroy my finances? :D
There is not a single issue by using a stereo+mono configuration. The only potential problems are a matter of aesthetics and space, and if you do not have constrains/issues in that department, the sound quality will not be compromised one bit.

Many often times you´ll find users recommending to use the same series of speakers for a whole surround setup. This is a good recomendation in terms of matching radiaton pattern and tonality, but it is far from a necessity. In that regard, using room correction (dirac in your case) helps by adjusting the tonality as much as possible to reduce the impact of the differences in the speakers. Still, sound is sound, and if your speakers reproduce the frequencies, that´s it.

Will a full KEF R Meta set in with 11 speaker sound and look amazing? You bet! Will it give you an orders of magnitude better sound experience? Probably not. Down the line in the future? Well, perhaps something like Dirac ART could change that, given that it uses all speakers to correct the whole set, but even in that case, I´m not sure if you´d get extra performance matching all speakers to KEF.

And no, I´m not on a crusade to plunder and smash your accounts. If that were the case, I´d have told you; ahem, ahem (clears throat and whisper), KEF Reference or Perlisten S series.... :D
 
And no, I´m not on a crusade to plunder and smash your accounts. If that were the case, I´d have told you; ahem, ahem (clears throat and whisper), KEF Reference or Perlisten S series.... :D
I was surprised by how much more the Reference series costs when compared to R. Because I had looked. But then I looked away.

I actually have to confess that, after completing acoustic treatment of the room and redoing the Dirac DBLC calibration... that led me to the "now updating speakers could probably be worth it" but, on the other hand, there's a part of me that is absolutely *terrified* by the idea of changing the current setup. Which sounds as I've never been able to hear music before (not with my equipment, that is).

To this day the best sound I've heard in my life has been a Radiohead concert at the Arena, in Milan. It was awe inspiring, to the point that I got a little depressed by the thought "I'll never hear music like this again". And, since then till now, I've been right. It was about ten years ago, maybe fifteen. What a setup they had...
 
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I was surprised by how much more the Reference series costs when compared to R. Because I had looked. But then I looked away.

I actually have to confess that, after completing acoustic treatment of the room and redoing the Dirac DBLC calibration... that led me to the "now updating speakers could probably be worth it" but, on the other hand, there's a part of me that is absolutely *terrified* by the idea of changing the current setup. Which sounds as I've never been able to hear music before (not with my equipment, that is).

To this day the best sound I've heard in my life has been a Radiohead concert at the Arena, in Milan. It was awe inspiring, to the point that I got a little depressed by the thought "I'll never hear music like this again". And, since then till now, I've been right. It was about ten years ago, maybe fifteen. What a setup they had...
We don´t know much about Dirac ART yet, as it is not a very popular EQ system due to its restrictions in hardware. Yet is the keyword, once we all have more experience with it, you´ll be better informed about upgrading speakers.
 
We don´t know much about Dirac ART yet, as it is not a very popular EQ system due to its restrictions in hardware. Yet is the keyword, once we all have more experience with it, you´ll be better informed about upgrading speakers.
Yeah, I kept hoping that ART was coming for the 3800H. Latest rumours make me kinda pessimistic about that.
 
Ordered the R6 directly from KEF. Got it in walnut finish, even if the R7 are going to be in the titanium gloss special edition finish. The center is right below my TV, I dread the reflections of a gloss finish there. I'll barely tolerate them from the floorstanders, due to the price I got them for.

In the end I decided to save a bit on amplification and just bought a 2x250W (Audiophonics MPA-S250NC XLR, which Amir reviewed and loved). I rarely if ever go above 80db in my listening. Peaks, yeah, but let's see how it works like this.
Considering that I bought an extra subwoofer too (SVS SB2000), hoping that an asymmetric placement in the room will help tame some small nulls I have).

Now the wait begins... and then I have to decide what to do with the old speakers. I'd sell them but they're quite old. I'll probably try a very good price, just to avoid throwing them away, since they're perfectly functional.
 
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Edit: Oops! I must have replied and not realized I hadn't scrolled to the bottom of the thread. Reading the whole thing now, looks like you are in excellent shape. I hope they arrive quickly for you!
Regarding the R5/subs/equalization thing, would some pictures/drawings with measurement help? There is not much I can change/move around in the room, but there's a place where I could add a third subwoofer. Maybe that could further help in smoothing out/extending bass response for the R5. And maybe it would be money better spent than going with R7.

My main consideration for R5/R7 is that I wouldn't want to risk setting the crossover higher than 80Hz, for localization worries. But on the other hand it seems to me that the R5 are already strained when reaching 80.

Do you have any idea about the question regarding directivity/localization of the center speaker with a coax M/T?
The R5 will have no problem being crossed at 80Hz. In-room response will provide significantly more bass if the speaker is near a wall. Likewise, the R3, with fewer drivers and a smaller cabinet, can handle an 80hz crossover. Speaker response graphs frequently show anechoic response, which has less bass than what you will hear in your room.

Where the R5 could fall short is maximum spl. The smaller woofers will begin distorting at a lower volume than something like the R7.

Also consider that prior to the R6, the R2c was Kef's R-series center channel. It also had two 5.25" drivers like in the R5. People paired this with R11 mains and didn't seem to run out of headroom. I'm one of those people, with R11 mains and an R2c center. I sometimes lust after an R6 to replace my center channel. In reality, I probably couldn't tell a difference.

These were initially powered by a demon x3800h but I upgraded to separate amps. When really pushed hard, there was a harshness to the sound. Increasing the power eliminated that harshness by eliminating amp distortion. Apparently, the amp was distorting, not the R2c or R11. Or at least I am no longer able to perceive any distortion.
 
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