KEF LS60 and WiiM Ultra?

[terryforsythe]

Seam to have missed the point that the software makes the streamer. For sure the wiiim the best non Roon streamer, but that tells you everything.
Room for example is certified against each end point. Some like NAD have struggled to make the standard in some cases. Gives you reassurance that you really might be getting something near bit perfect. .

WiiM is bit perfect. So is CamillaDSP. I use camilladsp-setrate to keep CamillaDSP in sync, and thus bit perfect, if the streaming bit rate changes.

WiiM is not NAD.

The below information is from a post I made back in Oct. 2022 in my thread comparing Roon to other options: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-vs-roon-a-brief-overview.36815/post-1357989

Roon has been updated since then, so it probably has been improved. Nonetheless, some of the other points still may be pertinent.

Also, when I made the post below it was before I started using WiiM streamers and before I had my KEFs. I now have four audio systems, and my other work-around no longer would work because I do not have a fiber optic cable running to my office. With my two WiiMs, though, I can group them into a single group and stream the same music to all four of my systems simultaneously - the WiiM in my main stack outputs to a fiber optic hub, which connects to three of my systems. The WiiM in my office connects to my KEFs.

Here is the Roon portion of my post:

Why I didn't chose Roon:

1. Expensive in comparison to the other options.

2. Roon will not connect to my Yamaha receiver via DLA/UPnP. It will connect via Airplay, though, but Airplay is not a lossless connection. I could put together a Roon endpoint and connect the endpoint to the Yamaha receiver via USB, but this is added cost and currently there is a severe shortage of Raspberry Pis. Good luck trying to get a Raspberry Pi 4+ anywhere close to list price these days.

Note: My earlier posts in this thread discussing Roon's support for DLA/UPnP appear to be incorrect. I thought Roon was connecting to my miniDSP SHD via DLA/UPnP, but it was not. It was using its own protocol, which my Yamaha receiver does not support.

3. Roon will not let me group all three of my systems into a single group because it communicates with them using different protocols. As noted above, though, I have a work-around for this.

4. Roon also does not let me save tracks to my Tidal playlist.

Note: Since I started this thread Roon has added Arc, which will allow you to access a Roon playlist over the Internet. So, that would be a workaround. However, Arc has an issue with my particular Router/firewall configuration, and gives an error when I try to enable it. I probably could get it to work, but I am not really interested in opening the required port on my NAS from the outside world anyway. Some say it is perfectly secure, and some say it is not. I don't know whether it is secure or isn't, but decided to play it safe.

5. No web interface or app I can use to access Roon from my Linux system. I may be able to get the Roon windows app running in Linux using Wine, but I'm not interested in running Wine - in the past, albeit long ago, I had issues running Windows apps in Wine.

6. Same issue as LMS on albums with tracks from various artists. As with LMS, the issue can be overcome by just listing the artist on each of the tracks as "Various Artists."

What I will miss about Roon:

1. The user interface. It certainly is much better than LMS and mconnect HD, and much better than Jellyfin, which I also tried.

2. Roon's music recommendations - Roon recommended some music I really enjoyed. Tidal does this as well, which I can access using the Tidal app.

3. If I rip a CD having various artists, and forget to change the artist name on each of the tracks to be the same, I can search for the tracks in my collection and manually group them into a single album. LMS does not offer this feature. With mconnect HD the feature is not even needed.

Side Note:

Roon also provides background information about artists and albums. Some of it is interesting, but some of it I found to be bizarre. Some of the authors put their own personal biases, with which many people would disagree, front and center in the album/artist information. On a couple of occasions I found it to be rather distasteful.

 

[Joffy1780]

Wiim Ultra is now Roon Ready anyway, so even the fanboys can get on board.

 

[Moonbase]

We can definitely agree on those points. I am also not saying anything is bad either.

 

[Open Mind Audio]

Wiim Ultra is now Roon Ready anyway, so even the fanboys can get on board.

That's fantastic - so glad they got this certified. Guess I may soon be out of $329.

 

[Emlin]

It think a comm

Spending 4000-5000 dollars on speakers then pennies on other components such as open sources is not a balanced budget. I use Roon which has room correction built-in and a quality streaming software. No messing about with open source, just works.

So, if you spend a million on a house, what's the minimum price for a tap that will work as well as any other tap? You have a spurious argument.

 

[Joffy1780]

So, if you spend a million on a house, what's the minimum price for a tap that will work as well as any other tap? You have a spurious argument.

I want my taps included if I'm dropping a mill on a house, plus I'd want those fancy ones that has boiling and fizzy, as well as bog standard council pop.
But I get your point.

 

[Mnyb]

Wiim Ultra is now Roon Ready anyway, so even the fanboys can get on board.

And so are the LS60 so they can be used directly as endpoints.

Wonder if the Pro + also can be used with Roon . I think so ??

I’ve considered Roon but not because of soundquality but for the other features.

Btw the WiiM ultra is even a bit overkill as you only using the digital out and not it’s improved DAC’s
With my previous Meridian system I used a Raspberry PI as streamer with a digital out board worked perfectly no SQ issues ofcourse.

 

[Mnyb]

WiiM is bit perfect. So is CamillaDSP. I use camilladsp-setrate to keep CamillaDSP in sync, and thus bit perfect, if the streaming bit rate changes.

WiiM is not NAD.

The below information is from a post I made back in Oct. 2022 in my thread comparing Roon to other options: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-vs-roon-a-brief-overview.36815/post-1357989

Roon has been updated since then, so it probably has been improved. Nonetheless, some of the other points still may be pertinent.

Also, when I made the post below it was before I started using WiiM streamers and before I had my KEFs. I now have four audio systems, and my other work-around no longer would work because I do not have a fiber optic cable running to my office. With my two WiiMs, though, I can group them into a single group and stream the same music to all four of my systems simultaneously - the WiiM in my main stack outputs to a fiber optic hub, which connects to three of my systems. The WiiM in my office connects to my KEFs.

Here is the Roon portion of my post:

Why I didn't chose Roon:

1. Expensive in comparison to the other options.

2. Roon will not connect to my Yamaha receiver via DLA/UPnP. It will connect via Airplay, though, but Airplay is not a lossless connection. I could put together a Roon endpoint and connect the endpoint to the Yamaha receiver via USB, but this is added cost and currently there is a severe shortage of Raspberry Pis. Good luck trying to get a Raspberry Pi 4+ anywhere close to list price these days.

Note: My earlier posts in this thread discussing Roon's support for DLA/UPnP appear to be incorrect. I thought Roon was connecting to my miniDSP SHD via DLA/UPnP, but it was not. It was using its own protocol, which my Yamaha receiver does not support.

3. Roon will not let me group all three of my systems into a single group because it communicates with them using different protocols. As noted above, though, I have a work-around for this.

4. Roon also does not let me save tracks to my Tidal playlist.

Note: Since I started this thread Roon has added Arc, which will allow you to access a Roon playlist over the Internet. So, that would be a workaround. However, Arc has an issue with my particular Router/firewall configuration, and gives an error when I try to enable it. I probably could get it to work, but I am not really interested in opening the required port on my NAS from the outside world anyway. Some say it is perfectly secure, and some say it is not. I don't know whether it is secure or isn't, but decided to play it safe.

5. No web interface or app I can use to access Roon from my Linux system. I may be able to get the Roon windows app running in Linux using Wine, but I'm not interested in running Wine - in the past, albeit long ago, I had issues running Windows apps in Wine.

6. Same issue as LMS on albums with tracks from various artists. As with LMS, the issue can be overcome by just listing the artist on each of the tracks as "Various Artists."

What I will miss about Roon:

1. The user interface. It certainly is much better than LMS and mconnect HD, and much better than Jellyfin, which I also tried.

2. Roon's music recommendations - Roon recommended some music I really enjoyed. Tidal does this as well, which I can access using the Tidal app.

3. If I rip a CD having various artists, and forget to change the artist name on each of the tracks to be the same, I can search for the tracks in my collection and manually group them into a single album. LMS does not offer this feature. With mconnect HD the feature is not even needed.

Side Note:

Roon also provides background information about artists and albums. Some of it is interesting, but some of it I found to be bizarre. Some of the authors put their own personal biases, with which many people would disagree, front and center in the album/artist information. On a couple of occasions I found it to be rather distasteful.

There is a compilation tag can be used , I don’t have that problem with LMS ?

 

[Mnyb]

Are you satisfied with the LS60?

Yes very I think they perform well and have some unique values , but they are no miracles there are limitations in spl and distortion ,but with dual subs and in my midsize room and listening levels they do work .

For better sq I need to change room and listening position for example and add acoustic treatment?

But I migth get upgradeitis in few year it’s a hobby .

I also considered mini DSP passive speakers and subs , it migth have been just as good .
KEF has good local dealers in my country that’s was a factor , I can talk to a guy over desk if something goes belly up .

 

[Phorize]

Seam to have missed the point that the software makes the streamer. For sure the wiiim the best non Roon streamer, but that tells you everything.
Room for example is certified against each end point. Some like NAD have struggled to make the standard in some cases. Gives you reassurance that you really might be getting something near bit perfect. .

I found roon unusable as it fails to support browsing by label on qobuz, which is an excellent feature. Maybe roon will fix that, maybe they won't-there is no way of telling. Meanwhile they expect me to run their server application as root through a forwarded port and with the firewall nearly fully disabled because they can't be bothered to document how the server behaves. Roon UI is very nice and the eq is intuitive, but scatch below the surface and all is not well.

 

[Count Dacula]

If your hearing is good enough to need room correction, you don't need room correction, you can dial it in yourself.

 

[Moonbase]

I assume you're referring to search by record label i.e. Sony Music. that Tidel & Qobuz provide. No sure they will add the feature as it's very neche.

I am guessing you are using some kind of linux server. The software is install using sudo (root) but you can run the application as any user.
The firewall setting are document here https://community.roonlabs.com/t/android-roon-remote-looses-connection-to-core-daily/61650/46

 

[Moonbase]

If your hearing is good enough to need room correction, you don't need room correction, you can dial it in yourself.

I think in most cases getting a uniform bass output is far easier with EQ.

 

[Mnyb]

I think in most cases getting a uniform bass output is far easier with EQ.

yes and you need to measure , it will be slow and painful random walk to try by ear . Measure try a few candidate eq settings and be done .

I've found it very usefull to measure what the sub out filters on the LS60 and settings on my sub's actually did , so by choosing clever levels and high and low pass filter combinations I could avoid using to many PEQ's and loose sn/ratio due to large adjustments

 

[Brian Hall]

Seam to have missed the point that the software makes the streamer. For sure the wiiim the best non Roon streamer, but that tells you everything.
Room for example is certified against each end point. Some like NAD have struggled to make the standard in some cases. Gives you reassurance that you really might be getting something near bit perfect. .

Roon is limited to only Tidal, Qobuz and local files. The Wiim units and other good streamers also add support Amazon Music HD, Spotify and Youtube Music.

I tried Roon for a few months and it was decent, but not worth it to me for what little it adds.

 

[Joffy1780]

Seam to have missed the point that the software makes the streamer. For sure the wiiim the best non Roon streamer, but that tells you everything.
Room for example is certified against each end point. Some like NAD have struggled to make the standard in some cases. Gives you reassurance that you really might be getting something near bit perfect. .

When you say the Wiim is the best non-Roon streamer, what does that even mean?
Roon don't make streamers they make software and all of the current Wiim streamers (apart from the Mini) are Roon Ready. You can't just have 'a Roon', you need hardware involved somewhere and that usually means a dedicated PC/Mac.

 

[Moonbase]

When you say the Wiim is the best non-Roon streamer, what does that even mean?
Roon don't make streamers they make software and all of the current Wiim streamers (apart from the Mini) are Roon Ready. You can't just have 'a Roon', you need hardware involved somewhere and that usually means a dedicated PC/Mac.

Roon have Nucleus range which I guess more precisely called a server I guess. The Roon Nucleus One starts at £499 + lic. You then can use an iPad/Tablet(s) to centrally control any device that has a Roon Endpoint. NAD/Arcam/Kef etc etc have these built in.

 

[Joffy1780]

NAD/Arcam/Kef etc etc have these built in.

...and Wiim which is the point I'm making.

Roon have Nucleus range which I guess more precisely called a server I guess. The Roon Nucleus One starts at £499 + lic. You then can use an iPad/Tablet(s) to centrally control any device that has a Roon Endpoint. NAD/Arcam/Kef etc etc have these built in.

A Roon nucleus is a server, as you say. Roon do not sell streamers, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Joffy1780]

And so are the LS60 so they can be used directly as endpoints.

Wonder if the Pro + also can be used with Roon . I think so ??

I’ve considered Roon but not because of soundquality but for the other features.

Btw the WiiM ultra is even a bit overkill as you only using the digital out and not it’s improved DAC’s
With my previous Meridian system I used a Raspberry PI as streamer with a digital out board worked perfectly no SQ issues ofcourse.

Yes, the Pro + is definitely Roon Ready.
I have tried Roon and I am not really in a position to get the best out of it, so it is not for me. If I had a large personal library and/or used Tidal/Qobuz I think I would love it, but I have a modest personal library and I subscribe to Amazon Music.
What first attracted my to Wiim devices was their Amazon music support and mine have never missed a beat since I bought them.

 

[shion_ca]

Seam to have missed the point that the software makes the streamer. For sure the wiiim the best non Roon streamer, but that tells you everything.
Room for example is certified against each end point. Some like NAD have struggled to make the standard in some cases. Gives you reassurance that you really might be getting something near bit perfect. .

Is Wiim better than ever solo for streaming? I like my ever solo....