WiiM Ultra integration w/ Schiit SYN, LS50 HP/LP crossover filtering

[john61ct]

I picked up OG KEF LS50s pretty cheap. I have a big listening space and want to get max SPL from them, within the bounds of SQ and safety. Setting aside power amp issues for now...

I plan to use a Wiim Ultra for bass management, both HP filtering to protect the LS50s at high SPLs, crossover maybe as high as 150-200Hz, and subwoofer integration, also loudness PEQ and room correction.

Note that I'm a noob to all that, and maybe the finer SQ issues are a bit wasted on me, my ears are old and show-damaged...

I already have a SYN pre-amp for gaming, SQ music with headphones, and also feeding 5.1 speakers for simulated surround HT usage.

But not using its fixed-LP subwoofer LFE output, Ultra's is much better, so obviously the LP-filtered sub(s) must be fed directly from the Ultra analog LFE sub jack.

Ultra's volume control affects ALL its outputs, both analog RCA and digital TOSlink, Coax S/PDIF and the (very unusual! ) USB host port, so Wiim would be the one master volume control for the whole system.

Also apparently that is true for the PEQ / HP-LP sub bass management and room correction, passed to all outputs.

I was also going to feed the Ultra's HP-filtered stereo RCA output direct to the main pair speakers' power amps, but that primary pair of signals is also the SYN "master input", used for the simulated Center and Rear surround signals, and also (as unfiltered full range) for headphone use

but apparently Ultra can only route those primary signals to one stereo output at a time? So, I conclude that when SYN is used, it must feed the main pair speakers' power amps as well.

Please confirm if all the above is correct, and in general whether my plan is sound, any feedback welcome.

 

[john61ct]

Should I route from Ultra to Syn via analog RCA or TOSlink? Both "should" be equally transparent?

?? Google AI says, send the primary signals to the SYN's DAC via USB ??

previously asked in the Wiim Ultra review thread

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

Fairy new, it's on all devices as far as I know. Not (yet?) available on the WiiM Mini nor WiiM Edition Audio Pro speakers.

audiosciencereview.com

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I have used a Syn with a Wiim Ultra. I used the RCA line out of the Wiim into the Syn (I believe that the analogue input bypasses the dac and any digital processing).

I used the sub out on the Wiim Ultra for my subwoofers.

I set the volume to fixed on the Wiim and controlled the volume with the Syn remote.

I only used the surrounds on the Syn, not the center or sub out and I made sure to level match the left and right speakers with the surrounds.

I listened to music and watched movies with this setup and I thought it sounded excellent.

My only problem is that I can't EQ the surrounds without introducing an ADC then DAC additional step in the audio chain.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I remember now, I used the Wiim for volume control. Otherwise, I don't think the subwoofer volume would sync with the rest of the speakers........

 

[john61ct]

Thanks for a detailed response!

I only used the surrounds on the Syn, not the center or sub out

So no Center at all? I fear with the way lots of current films are mixed the voices get buried. Lots of SYNers say the "simulated center" extracted from the content in common from both L/R really surfaces the voices, and that channel should really dominate with heavy SPL.

The Width and Presence effects also help apparently, but iirc really depend on Center.

> I made sure to level match the left and right speakers with the surrounds.

> My only problem is that I can't EQ the surrounds without introducing an ADC then DAC additional step in the audio chain.

My understanding is the rear surrounds are just for a bit of extra ambiance, their SQ does not matter much, and their SPL can/should be a lot lower.

I remember now, I used the Wiim for volume control. Otherwise, I don't think the subwoofer volume would sync with the rest of the speakers........

Yes that makes more sense.

 

[JeremyFife]

A thought... instead of the WiiM Ultra, why not get an AVR? They're not much more expensive and come with everything you need - fewer compromises

 

[john61ct]

I prefer a focus on SQ music and small sized gear.

Really my main interest in SYN was audiophile, use for film watching a minor draw.

I dislike integrated boxen in general, and despise the rapid evolution (planned obsolescence) of multi-channel "standards" https://xkcd.com/927

Two source channels are enough for everyone!

Plus I want DC driven AMAP for when off grid, especially the thirsty components

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I agree with @JeremyFife, an AVR is much easier to setup if you want a center channel. I tried a Syn and Wiim Ultra and then started using a Marantz AVR and it's much easier. I'm going to get a new AVR soon and try Auro3d for music. I've also got the option of using my two Bobwire RCA switch boxes so I can automatically switch between a Wiim+Syn and an AVR.

 

[john61ct]

Is it still the case that Wiim Ultra can only send the primary stereo signal to one output at a time?

This would mean I cannot send the full-range signal to SYN for the Center + rear Surround while feeding the HP-filtered one directly to the Main front pair.

 

[JustJones]

Is it still the case that Wiim Ultra can only send the primary stereo signal to one output at a time?

This would mean I cannot send the full-range signal to SYN for the Center + rear Surround while feeding the HP-filtered one directly to the Main front pair.

As far as I know that's stiil correct. Only one output at a time along with subout. You might check the WiiM forum.

 

[john61ct]

option of using my two Bobwire RCA switch boxes so I can automatically switch between a Wiim+Syn and an AVR.

Interesting!

> could use this box to switch between your 2-channel and home theater processor to access the same amps and speakers

at a price...

Maybe the Ultra "Smart Presets" feature could do someting similar? Also include switching from HP-filtering mode to full range

I do use SYN as a high SQ headphone amp, so I want to eliminate the Room Correction, use a different PEQ profile from what my speakers need, keep a Loudness curve...

 

[john61ct]

> Should I route from Ultra to Syn via analog RCA or TOSlink? Both "should" be equally transparent?

> Google AI says, send the primary signals to the SYN's DAC via USB

Apparently the Wiim Ultra's digital output USB port is v1.1 which I see is limited to 12 Mbps and 24-bit/96kHz ?

Am I correct in that will in itself be a deal-breaker for SQ ?

Plus there may be greater chances of jitter / clocking issues ?

 

[90sNintendoKid]

> Should I route from Ultra to Syn via analog RCA or TOSlink? Both "should" be equally transparent?

> Google AI says, send the primary signals to the SYN's DAC via USB

Apparently the Wiim Ultra's digital output USB port is v1.1 which I see is limited to 12 Mbps and 24-bit/96kHz ?

Am I correct in that will in itself be a deal-breaker for SQ ?

Plus there may be greater chances of jitter / clocking issues ?

Might I suggest you are thinking too much about this. I invite you to double check the ASR Wiim Ultra review, as far as I can remember the DAC measurements on the RCA line out are excellent.

 

[john61ct]

So, I take it you believe

>> Both should be equally transparent

I am also trying to get up to speed educating myself on the tech issues, not just for practical choice-making for one particular use case.

Finally, I may prefer to keep the RCA lines available for a "pure analog" path from phono and / or my late dad's reel to reel.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

So, I take it you believe

>> Both should be equally transparent

I am also trying to get up to speed educating myself on the tech issues, not just for practical choice-making for one particular use case.

Finally, I may prefer to keep the RCA lines available for a "pure analog" path from phono and / or my late dad's reel to reel.

I don't have much experience of phono because I don't own a turntable. I wonder if you've tried the phono in if the Wiim Ultra.

 

[john61ct]

My point was the "pure analog" path, those were just examples.

 

[JustJones]

Apparently the Wiim Ultra's digital output USB port is v1.1 which I see is limited to 12 Mbps and 24-bit/96kHz ?

Not sure where you read this but USB out on the Ultra is UAC 2.0
192kHz / 24 bit
The analog in on the Ultra goes through the ADC and converted to 192khz/ 24 bit . There is no pure analog through the Ultra.

 

[john61ct]

Excellent, thanks!

And yes I meant bypassing the Wiim into the SYN, where RCA input to outputs is all analog, and there's only the one pair.

 

[john61ct]

Update to my OP, sorry bit of a moving target

I found an Outlaw ICBM-1 to use for the sub bass management crossovers, not only allows for stereo sub output, might in future supplement mid-bass (over 200Hz) not just drive <80Hz. Downside is, no controls for timing delay 8-(

I think more likely I will try to use Ultra's PEQ for the room correction aspect, with a separate preset for headphones usage.

Any feedback welcome, except maybe "you think too much"

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Update to my OP, sorry bit of a moving target

I found an Outlaw ICBM-1 to use for the sub bass management crossovers, not only allows for stereo output, maybe supplement mid-bass (over 200Hz) not just drive <80Hz. Downside is, no controls for timing delay.

I think more likely I will try to use Ultra's PEQ for the room correction aspect, with a separate preset for headphones usage.

Any feedback welcome, except maybe "you think too much"

Might I suggest you try the Wiim Ultra RCA line out to the Syn and sub out of the Wiim Ultra. I used this chain over Christmas and I thought it sounded excellent. I split the signal of the sub out to 2 SVS 3000 Micros. I used the 10 band PEQ for my speakers on the Wiim and 3 band EQ on the subwoofers. I've done this in two different rooms and I got consistent performance in both, excellent bass at all volume levels.