ISOTEK EVO3 Aquarius Power Conditioner Review

[audio2design]

QUOTE="amirm, post: 1069804, member: 2"]
No it isn't. It only becomes so if you have the measurements to show that to be the case. Not just claim it to be so with rudimentary simulation no less.
[/QUOTE]

This really is rudimentary EE stuff and my simulations even if simple are 100% bang on. If you looked at the current harmonics of the simulation I provided above which are very much what you would see real world in a linear supply then you would hopefully understand that the frequencies that the load draws current at extend far above 60Hz.

@Mynb has the correct understanding w.r.t. source impedance at frequency. One also has to understand that the diodes are non linear circuit elements and hence basic linear circuit analysis cannot be used.

 

[audio2design]

edit: indeed he did imply that some devices would not work:

Not imply, stated. The low DC rail could cause undervoltage lockout. Rapid changes in the DC rail due to load variance could also cause unexpected issues with bias circuits expecting a somewhat steady DC rail.

Go back a bunch of posts/pages and I show what will happen if you attempt low frequency filtering wrt the rail voltage drooping. I also have a discussion (important) w.r.t. the frequency of said filter as you can't even really design a practical passive filter for a specific frequency cutoff as the real filter frequency is entirely load dependent. A filter that is 1000Hz at 10W load could be effectively 10Hz at 1KW load and the instaneous input load on a linear supply or non-PFC switcher is far greater than the average load and will vary widely based on loading.

To ensure no sag on a big power amp you would need to target, say 1KHz at 25A peak of the AC line while the caps are charging while the testing done here is 600R or 0.28A peak. The filter frequency could effectively change from 1Khz to 89KHz.

If you designed a filter for 1Khz for 24W load (or worse a lower frequency) as Amir tests at, then you will have massive droop with your power amp.

So do you make a filter with a small inductor and massive capacitor? That's beyond impractical and you run into practical limits due to inherent AC source inductance.

 

[Ingenieur]

QUOTE="amirm, post: 1069804, member: 2"]
No it isn't. It only becomes so if you have the measurements to show that to be the case. Not just claim it to be so with rudimentary simulation no less.

Quote
This really is rudimentary EE stuff and my simulations even if simple are 100% bang on. If you looked at the current harmonics of the simulation I provided above which are very much what you would see real world in a linear supply then you would hopefully understand that the frequencies that the load draws current at extend far above 60Hz.

@Mynb has the correct understanding w.r.t. source impedance at frequency. One also has to understand that the diodes are non linear circuit elements and hence basic linear circuit analysis cannot be used.
[/QUOTE]

That is why it is confusing, that you, with a MSEE, do not understand these basic concepts.

Linear analysis can, and is used, by constructing a Thevinin EC.

Where did you matriculate from?

 

[Ingenieur]

Not imply, stated. The low DC rail could cause undervoltage lockout. Rapid changes in the DC rail due to load variance could also cause unexpected issues with bias circuits expecting a somewhat steady DC rail.

Go back a bunch of posts/pages and I show what will happen if you attempt low frequency filtering wrt the rail voltage drooping. I also have a discussion (important) w.r.t. the frequency of said filter as you can't even really design a practical passive filter for a specific frequency cutoff as the real filter frequency is entirely load dependent. A filter that is 1000Hz at 10W load could be effectively 10Hz at 1KW load and the instaneous input load on a linear supply or non-PFC switcher is far greater than the average load and will vary widely based on loading.

Your example is contrived to suit your purpose. It is not real world.
My plots show real world response.

What is the power in the load?
And S in the C?
The L of your xfmr

By reducing the V 4:1 you should have increase the load by 16 or C by 16.

 

[Ingenieur]

Simulation no filter
Adjusted AC V to get 24 VDC out
Added L for xfmr and real world supply

 

[Ingenieur]

With filter
1st order Butterworth LP, cutoff 180 Hz

 

[Hayabusa]

With filter
1st order Butterworth LP, cutoff 180 Hz

View attachment 183189
View attachment 183186
View attachment 183188

Conclusion?
Would it also be possible to have an LC filter tuned at 60Hz in series? That would also attenuate 120Hz

 

[Xyrium]

I use their sine wave UPS because it is the only company making a 1RU version of that with no fan. Two batteries have gone bad (between two units) over five or so years. And one died altogether.

I use a few of their sinewave versions because I have several devices that actually care about their input waveform. My Wifi, DVR, and Fiber Router won't operate on the "regular" non-sine versions. Of course, the UPS is a stop gap before I can tie in the generator. I even considered one of their "online" versions, but the expense simply isn't justified for me.

Those sinewave models are legit. Either that, or they purposely design the non-sinewave stuff to be crap.

 

[Ingenieur]

Conclusion?
Would it also be possible to have an LC filter tuned at 60Hz in series? That would also attenuate 120Hz

Why?
The frequency of power is 120 Hz
Line harmonics are usually odd order on a 3 phase system.
I would not use L series first topology.


The line supply is inductive.
pf ~ 0.9 lagging 26 deg

 

[Ingenieur]

Here are the IEEE standards that utilities comply with, from measurements I've mad and seen, typically 1/2 of those.
You can see filtering does little. Almost all noise is <11th harmonic.

 

[Hayabusa]

Why?
The frequency of power is 120 Hz

because the whole discussion started with this statement from @audio2design :

"It's a good thing it does not filter down to 120Hz or a lot of equipment would not work."

 

[Ingenieur]

because the whole discussion started with this statement from @audio2design :

"It's a good thing it does not filter down to 120Hz or a lot of equipment would not work."

Well, that depends:
A motor will wok fine, perhaps better
And that is the majority of system load, hence the pf being drug down.
In your home: frig and AC/HP, washer, dryer, etc.

His position was in reference to LPS., the primary resultant harmonic is the third.
Beyond the 7th very little, typical ripple.
The LR input filter improve that

I ran the simulation with an LR low pass at the 5th harmonic
It lost <8% power

I don't think anyone is saying a brick wall filter at 60 Hz, but a filter to catch the 7th and up. Likely a few % loss.
Not the kHz or MHz range.

Bear in mind the f of power is a construct
The resultant of cos f x cos f
The net real power does not oscillate back ad forth, it is always positive flow and varies in amplitude. Hence the use of 'average' power.
Reactive power reacts differently lol

 

[motoret]

Hi! and sorry to be a bit against the flow in this thread, even if I have nothing against Amir's measurements here.
Has anybody done a listening test of this power conditioner (just listening a test track with and without it)?
I am surprised no-one talks about actual listening tests here. A listening test is subjective and can be easily done wrong....and I know it does not qualify as a measurement, but still, let me share my experience with this product here.
I went to a hi-fi show back in 2018 if i remember well (it was the year KEF launched its small LSX speakers), and I randomly took a seat in the ISOTEK room. At the time, I didn't even know what a power conditioner was needed for, and I never heard of ISOTEK in my life before. The guy from ISOTEK started to do a demo at that moment since the room was full, he closed the door and started explaining some of the products in display at the show, and then proceeded to a listening test to a small audience of 15 people. The song played was always the same, using a cd player and integrated amp from McIntosh. The speakers where B&W. First thing he did was to switch the mains cables of amp and cd player from the stock to an ISOTEK cables. To my surprise, I felt the improvement (until then I was skeptical about mains cables also, only having one decent cable in my system). Moving on, he added a power bar, I think it was the EVO3 GEMINI, and again, to my big surprise, I could hear an improvement. Next was the EVO3 Aquarius, and then again! the sound of that track was even better. He finished with the sine wave generator EVO3 GENESIS ONE, and again the step-up improvement was there. Honestly, until that day I was also very skeptical about these devices but that day I totally changed my mind, forever. I wonder if the noisy power in that hotel was helpful in the demo, and I wonder if I my brain was totally tricked by charm of the demo show itself.....but that was my subjective experience ;-)

 

[TrevC]

Hi! and sorry to be a bit against the flow in this thread, even if I have nothing against Amir's measurements here.
Has anybody done a listening test of this power conditioner (just listening a test track with and without it)?
I am surprised no-one talks about actual listening tests here. A listening test is subjective and can be easily done wrong....and I know it does not qualify as a measurement, but still, let me share my experience with this product here.
I went to a hi-fi show back in 2018 if i remember well (it was the year KEF launched its small LSX speakers), and I randomly took a seat in the ISOTEK room. At the time, I didn't even know what a power conditioner was needed for, and I never heard of ISOTEK in my life before. The guy from ISOTEK started to do a demo at that moment since the room was full, he closed the door and started explaining some of the products in display at the show, and then proceeded to a listening test to a small audience of 15 people. The song played was always the same, using a cd player and integrated amp from McIntosh. The speakers where B&W. First thing he did was to switch the mains cables of amp and cd player from the stock to an ISOTEK cables. To my surprise, I felt the improvement (until then I was skeptical about mains cables also, only having one decent cable in my system). Moving on, he added a power bar, I think it was the EVO3 GEMINI, and again, to my big surprise, I could hear an improvement. Next was the EVO3 Aquarius, and then again! the sound of that track was even better. He finished with the sine wave generator EVO3 GENESIS ONE, and again the step-up improvement was there. Honestly, until that day I was also very skeptical about these devices but that day I totally changed my mind, forever. I wonder if the noisy power in that hotel was helpful in the demo, and I wonder if I my brain was totally tricked by charm of the demo show itself.....but that was my subjective experience ;-)

The entire thing was a fix. A con.

 

[amirm]

I am surprised no-one talks about actual listening tests here.

Do you think the color of the plate your food comes on in a restaurant changes its taste? How about the color of socks you wear when you listen to your system?

If the answer is no, then you know why we don't "listen" to such products. If the answer is yes, then you have bigger issues than we can respond to.

 

[amirm]

To my surprise, I felt the improvement (until then I was skeptical about mains cables also, only having one decent cable in my system). Moving on, he added a power bar, I think it was the EVO3 GEMINI, and again, to my big surprise, I could hear an improvement. Next was the EVO3 Aquarius, and then again! the sound of that track was even better. He finished with the sine wave generator EVO3 GENESIS ONE, and again the step-up improvement was there. Honestly, until that day I was also very skeptical about these devices but that day I totally changed my mind, forever. I wonder if the noisy power in that hotel was helpful in the demo, and I wonder if I my brain was totally tricked by charm of the demo show itself.....but that was my subjective experience ;-)

This happens to countless people, and even to me at shows! It is part of being human.

You are shown a system and then something is changed. You now pay more attention and your impression of sound changes because your brain is operating differently. It is now focusing and hearing more detail, more instruments, more of everything really. This is why after change you heard improvements. If on the other hand you did not attempt to do this -- which is hard -- then you would not have noticed any difference. I did this once, not listening to the presenter and indeed, the difference vanished.

Above is the reason why "everything makes a difference" to some audiophiles. No matter how implausible, many people report changes to sound where none can possibly be. The logical conclusion then is that we are performing improper listening tests, not that every tweak makes audio sound different.

And why we perform such tests blind in proper audio research. Then, you don't know which is which. Then you would focus into both samples (before and after change) and outcome is usually random. As it should be because the sound waves did not change.

 

[Mnyb]

Hi! and sorry to be a bit against the flow in this thread, even if I have nothing against Amir's measurements here.
Has anybody done a listening test of this power conditioner (just listening a test track with and without it)?
I am surprised no-one talks about actual listening tests here. A listening test is subjective and can be easily done wrong....and I know it does not qualify as a measurement, but still, let me share my experience with this product here.
I went to a hi-fi show back in 2018 if i remember well (it was the year KEF launched its small LSX speakers), and I randomly took a seat in the ISOTEK room. At the time, I didn't even know what a power conditioner was needed for, and I never heard of ISOTEK in my life before. The guy from ISOTEK started to do a demo at that moment since the room was full, he closed the door and started explaining some of the products in display at the show, and then proceeded to a listening test to a small audience of 15 people. The song played was always the same, using a cd player and integrated amp from McIntosh. The speakers where B&W. First thing he did was to switch the mains cables of amp and cd player from the stock to an ISOTEK cables. To my surprise, I felt the improvement (until then I was skeptical about mains cables also, only having one decent cable in my system). Moving on, he added a power bar, I think it was the EVO3 GEMINI, and again, to my big surprise, I could hear an improvement. Next was the EVO3 Aquarius, and then again! the sound of that track was even better. He finished with the sine wave generator EVO3 GENESIS ONE, and again the step-up improvement was there. Honestly, until that day I was also very skeptical about these devices but that day I totally changed my mind, forever. I wonder if the noisy power in that hotel was helpful in the demo, and I wonder if I my brain was totally tricked by charm of the demo show itself.....but that was my subjective experience ;-)

Amir has shown several measurements , as in this tread with an audio product with our without this filter or others where the output of in this case a DAC does not change at all . If the signal coming out of the DAC is identical it sounds identical . There is no change therefore nothing to listen for ?

 

[Ingenieur]

Do you think the color of the plate your food comes on in a restaurant changes its taste? How about the color of socks you wear when you listen to your system?

If the answer is no, then you know why we don't "listen" to such products. If the answer is yes, then you have bigger issues than we can respond to.

Dude, you're killin' me
rotfl

 

[Ingenieur]

Hi! and sorry to be a bit against the flow in this thread, even if I have nothing against Amir's measurements here.
Has anybody done a listening test of this power conditioner (just listening a test track with and without it)?
I am surprised no-one talks about actual listening tests here. A listening test is subjective and can be easily done wrong....and I know it does not qualify as a measurement, but still, let me share my experience with this product here.
I went to a hi-fi show back in 2018 if i remember well (it was the year KEF launched its small LSX speakers), and I randomly took a seat in the ISOTEK room. At the time, I didn't even know what a power conditioner was needed for, and I never heard of ISOTEK in my life before. The guy from ISOTEK started to do a demo at that moment since the room was full, he closed the door and started explaining some of the products in display at the show, and then proceeded to a listening test to a small audience of 15 people. The song played was always the same, using a cd player and integrated amp from McIntosh. The speakers where B&W. First thing he did was to switch the mains cables of amp and cd player from the stock to an ISOTEK cables. To my surprise, I felt the improvement (until then I was skeptical about mains cables also, only having one decent cable in my system). Moving on, he added a power bar, I think it was the EVO3 GEMINI, and again, to my big surprise, I could hear an improvement. Next was the EVO3 Aquarius, and then again! the sound of that track was even better. He finished with the sine wave generator EVO3 GENESIS ONE, and again the step-up improvement was there. Honestly, until that day I was also very skeptical about these devices but that day I totally changed my mind, forever. I wonder if the noisy power in that hotel was helpful in the demo, and I wonder if I my brain was totally tricked by charm of the demo show itself.....but that was my subjective experience ;-)

What do you expect to hear?
It is not the signal, it is a pool of power the control signal modulates.

 

[MattS]

View attachment 182598Anybody know what the upright square thing in the front right corner is? Some sort of circuit breaker, maybe?

Yes... a circuit breaker/switch... operated from underneath...