ISOTEK EVO3 Aquarius Power Conditioner Review

[DualTriode]

Power lost to harmonics is inefficiency not put to useful work. The power is lost to heat.

Lighting retrofits in commercial buildings often significantly reduce the cooling load. Sometimes the capacity of the heating system needs to be increased to make up the deference.

audio2design, deep breath no one cares.

 

[audio2design]

Power lost to harmonics is inefficiency not put to useful work. The power is lost to heat.

Lighting retrofits in commercial buildings often significantly reduce the cooling load. Sometimes the capacity of the heating system needs to be increased to make up the deference.

audio2design, deep breath no one cares.

If it is filtered it is not lost to heat other than the non ideal characteristics of inductors and capacitors. Resistive filters have losses but we are not talking about that. Small loses from poor PF/THD are due to higher losses in wiring and transformers. Lighting retrofits reduce heating loads due to much higher source efficiency, i.e. LEDs or high efficiency T8/T5. The loss improvement from reduced harmonics from electronic ballasts is minimal compared to magnetic ballasts.

Take a breath dualtriode, you seem to care.

 

[DualTriode]

Yes I do care about the largest loads in the building. That is how I get paid. Just for a few LEED points.

Slowing down pumps and fans with Variable Frequency Drives also saves a lot of watts. The power supplies that convert AC to DC and the IGBT’s that convert DC back into AC of varying frequency AC are not faultless or 100% efficient either.

Not too many know or care.

 

[amirm]

Your lack of knowledge is showing. Big difference between measuring and doing.

I have been doing the measuring. You have only been doing the talking. I asked you for measurements and you said you wanted a few weeks. Clearly you have not measured anything or you would have post the results immediately. Stuff you are pontificating strains imagination let alone reality.

One more personal insult like this and you will get a thread ban so take caution in your tone.

 

[amirm]

I have shown many actual simulations of real world implementations simplified that illustrate the effect of the load on what the filter will do.

Actual simulation of real load? Are you playing with us? A simple spice simulation with dubious parameters and graphs does not remotely make it "real world." Nothing in your simulation used the type of AC mains spectrum and noise I am showing. Nor do you have any idea what you are simulating. As I keep explaining, you are confusing the backward effect of a power supply on a load, than the effect of load harmonics and noise on the output of the power supply. We care about the latter, not the former. Nothing you have shown in your simulations makes any sense or back your backward point of view.

 

[audio2design]

Actual simulation of real load? Are you playing with us? A simple spice simulation with dubious parameters and graphs does not remotely make it "real world." Nothing in your simulation used the type of AC mains spectrum and noise I am showing. Nor do you have any idea what you are simulating. As I keep explaining, you are confusing the backward effect of a power supply on a load, than the effect of load harmonics and noise on the output of the power supply. We care about the latter, not the former. Nothing you have shown in your simulations makes any sense or back your backward point of view.

It is not meant to simulate what you did. It is to show that you can't filter to anywhere near 120Hz as that will cause massive voltage droop under load at the DC side.

There is nothing remotely dubious about any of the values I have used nor the simplicity of my circuit. If anything a more complex model will further prove my point.

I will state again the obvious. The existence of the diodes means the circuit is not linear so linear circuit analysis does not work.

I am not confusing anything. I have a deeper knowledge of this and while my simulations are simple my understanding is not. Simplistic would be testing a product purely on differential noise, making a claim about the need for just about 120hz filtering, and not even testing for common mode noise rejection (it's primary function) and then declaring based on wrong assumptions and inadequate testing the product does not work, which may be true, but the tests do not prove that conclusively.

My simulations show clearly and frankly irrefutably that attempting to filter down to 120hz, is a fools errand because the actual filter frequency is load dependent and you need those higher frequency harmonics to maintain the DC rail voltage. The voltage is only a sign wave at the source. The diodes modulate that voltage. That is unavoidable unless your power supply is power factor corrected in which the diodes commutate near 0V.

 

[amirm]

It is not meant to simulate what you did. It is to show that you can't filter to anywhere near 120Hz as that will cause massive voltage droop under load at the DC side.

And you showed this how?

 

[audio2design]

I have been doing the measuring. You have only been doing the talking. I asked you for measurements and you said you wanted a few weeks. Clearly you have not measured anything or you would have post the results immediately. Stuff you are pontificating strains imagination let alone reality.

One more personal insult like this and you will get a thread ban so take caution in your tone.

The measurements I will provide are not related to this most recent part of the discussion, but I should be able to find a large value inductor in the lab. The measurements will be related to whether power filtering can remove noise from an audio chain. It will be relatively easy since I just need to create a real world situation with some common mode noise ... which most group loops are.

 

[amirm]

The measurements I will provide are not related to this most recent part of the discussion, but I should be able to find a large value inductor in the lab. The measurements will be related to whether power filtering can remove noise from an audio chain. It will be relatively easy since I just need to create a real world situation with some common mode noise ... which most group loops are.

Then you are wasting your time. As I keep saying, people buy such boxes with zero indication of a power issue, hum or buzz. They think by mere insertion of such boxes, fidelity of any system improves. You creating a contrived noise scenario has nothing to do with the application of these products.

That aside, I asked you to show measurements that a linear power supply falls apart if fed pure 60 Hz power instead of one with some harmonics. Do you have something like this or not?

 

[audio2design]

And you showed this how?

Look back of my simulations and the descriptions of them. I provided a few posts with those. That one in particular about a week ago. I think. This is one of the problems with choke regulation in power supplies for audio. Great for Class A with constant power. Pain for AB with variable power.

 

[amirm]

I don't recall anything in that regard. Regardless, come back with real measurements that you said was a sign of someone knowing what they are doing.

 

[audio2design]

Then you are wasting your time. As I keep saying, people buy such boxes with zero indication of a power issue, hum or buzz. They think by mere insertion of such boxes, fidelity of any system improves. You creating a contrived noise scenario has nothing to do with the application of these products.

That aside, I asked you to show measurements that a linear power supply falls apart if fed pure 60 Hz power instead of one with some harmonics. Do you have something like this or not?

I never claimed that a linear power supply would fall apart with something other than pure 60Hz. I said if you put a filter inline that filtered to low frequencies it would fall apart. That may seem like the same thing. It is not. That a supply changes in Voltage at 60Hz does not mean that that is the only frequency it can supply to a load. The load can try to pull whatever it wants.

The simulations show what happens with a pure 60Hz source when a filter is put before the load. I gave a discussion as well.

 

[audio2design]

I don't recall anything in that regard. Regardless, come back with real measurements that you said was a sign of someone knowing what they are doing.

The simulations in this case are close enough to reality to be reality. For the common mode rejection that is best shown with measurement's.

 

[Hayabusa]

It amazes me that he still doesn't get this simple point. There is so little power in the harmonics of mains. No way does it contribute to correct operation of anything.

@amirm and @Ingenieur you both miss out on the main issue that @audio2design brought up: its not about the harmonics of the mains, its about the harmonics in the load dependent currents.

 

[Hayabusa]

And you showed this how?

Indeed @audio2design , can you also do the same simulation with a mains filter doing something at 120Hz and show the difference in DC output?

 

[amirm]

@amirm and @Ingenieur you both miss out on the main issue that @audio2design brought up: its not about the harmonics of the mains, its about the harmonics in the load dependent currents.

He started this whole thing saying it is completely about mains harmonics. He says that if you filter said harmonics, your audio device can actually fail to function! Surely he is the only one who believes this.

 

[amirm]

The simulations in this case are close enough to reality to be reality.

No it isn't. It only becomes so if you have the measurements to show that to be the case. Not just claim it to be so with rudimentary simulation no less.

 

[Hayabusa]

He started this whole thing saying it is completely about mains harmonics. He says that if you filter said harmonics, your audio device can actually fail to function! Surely he is the only one who believes this.

I thinks its indeed unlikely that a device will fail because of filtering (current) harmonics. I will read back what he exactly said, I thought he just want to make a point that filtering these H2 H3 etc. could have influence on the power supply (reducing the DC at the big capacitors)

edit: indeed he did imply that some devices would not work:

>>"It's a good thing it does not filter down to 120Hz or a lot of equipment would not work."

 

[Mnyb]

@amirm and @Ingenieur you both miss out on the main issue that @audio2design brought up: its not about the harmonics of the mains, its about the harmonics in the load dependent currents.

You can lock at it as source impedance.

No power supply would have problem with being supplied a pure sine audio2designed did not claim that .

But the device you power can draw any kind of current with it’s harmonics ( I explained with a simple example of my car heater that happily suck a DC current from the AC network).

If the voltage source ( the 50/60 Hz ) shows a fast rising impedance very close to the fundamental. It possibly can get problematic .
Hence filter and load should really be designed together so the behaviour is predictable. Actually be a part of the PS itself not an add on .

An aftermarket device who cuts it to close so to speak could result in combinations that don’t work properly ?

 

[Ingenieur]

@amirm and @Ingenieur you both miss out on the main issue that @audio2design brought up: its not about the harmonics of the mains, its about the harmonics in the load dependent currents.

No I did not.
If the PS is designed properly they wil be below 120 Hz and not impacted by filtration > than the third harmonic.
They should primarily be at the fundamental.