IEM's - Where do diminishing returns start - cost wise? $10, $15, $20, $30, $50, $200, etc, etc

[OK1]

Just don't get Truthear Hexa, it will force you to look at the $200+ range for a substantial upgrade

Fortunately at this time, I do not have the disposable money to spend on such. I am in a pretty happy place now. Just thinking through the journey, I have been through.

1. Dongles - 3 fake Samsung dongles, 1 US version Apple dongle that cost me a huge chunk in import duties and customs admin fees - a $9 item with £15 of duties and admin costs, 1 CX31993 dongle which I don't think I'll ever use again, but thankfully I am 100% pleased with the TempoTec Sonata BHD, whose only flaw is a lack of A/D converters so it does not support use with microphones. Apple dongle is relegated to use for calls and participation in online meetings/conferences. Then there are considerations like - do you need bit accurate playback (a Windows issue - so you want to make sure playback can use WASAPI Exclusive, or ASIO) - I prefer ASIO cos I feel its more assured, even though in theory, the result should be exactly identical to WASAPI Exclusive. Only the BHD has a Windows driver with ASIO support.

2. Listening things. 3 cheap Sony earbuds - 1 of these went bad cos I must have been a bit rough with it - really fragile devices, 1 Sony higher quality almost IEM thing, 1 JVC Gumy Plus IEM like thing, CCA CRA, KZ ZVX, both of these which I discovered had been revised silently, then was delivered by the ARTTI T10 - which is a bit of a wonder - huge improvement in listening, but could not help the itch - a KZ Polaris is on its way...AliExpress gave me an offer I could not refuse. I suspect as soon as I have a bit of cash, I will add either the 7hz Zero or 7hz Zero 2, as a reference IEM (cos I find many reviews and opinions compare with this IEM - probably one of the most well known IEM's and affordable references in the IEM world)

3. Eartips - Learning about eartips, and the impact of changing eartips and adjusting depth, to get a specific sound/frequency response to my preferred taste. Resisting the temptation to order any custom eartips, but something tells me - soon enough I will spend no more than $10 on these at some point in time. But not an immediate priority. Bore internal and external width, as well as length of eartip, all making a significant difference. Getting a proper seal is so important. For a while, I now realise the largest ear tips that came with the KZ IEM, were too small for my ears. So some custom IEM's which I can use across IEM's may be a solution, if I regularly change the IEM I'm listening to.

4. EQ - Discovering Auto EQ, albeit I have learnt how to EQ manually using the measurements on various Squig.links.

5. Cables - Fortunately I have not taken the bait - well succumbed to one temptation of one silver plated cable, from KZ, which I do not use, but it's there just in case. FOMO. Thankfully it did not cost much. Use stock cables typically, my logical mind tells me - they are good enough.

6. Upsampling - definitely found a discernible benefit in upsampling to 96Khz.

7. Balanced Cable - ordered the T10 with balanced cables, and use it in this configuration. Just in case this would improve the sonics. Difficult to tell if the improvement is significantly audible, cos I do not have an single ended cable for the T10, so have no clue if this adds any improvement, but it's insurance..

8. CrossFeed - It may be subjective and I have no way to measure the improvement, and can't think of any objective way to assess this, except through some large sample statistical survey, involving lots of people, similar to the research done by Harman, to arrive at their reference curves. I must have tested at least 8 commercial products, and no less than 6 open source freeware solutions. Currently using the BS2R by Resonic version of the Meier crossfeed plugin, and this is the icing on the cake, which does remove the extreme separation that headphone listening devices introduce. I think this elevates the sonic experience, makes it definitely less weird, especially with the T10's which by default without crossfeed, can have some really out of this world disconnected separation between the extreme left and the extreme right. Definitely highly recommended. Unfortunately the plugin I use, which is free, only works on Windows!!

I must highlight this - it does add a wonderful connectivity and cohesion to all the elements in the song, making them sound like all being in one circular or ring/sphere shaped shaped room, around one's head, taking away that sound in one's own head and moving the sound out at least a few inches from one's head, rather than make it sound like the lead vocal is coming from inside my head. A definite augmentation to headphone/IEM listening.

9. Only further enhancement I can think of would be - upgrade from free Spotify to the higher quality paid Spotify or lossless Tidal (or similar service).

10. An easy to use volume control. In my case I have keystrokes on my laptop keyboard, mapped to volume plugins in my DAW - Reaper.

11. Eartip Placement. The more resolving the IEM's the more effort it takes to get a better stereo balance, cos every slight difference in the insertion depth between each ear can be heard. Ear tip rotation, and angling. How picky are we, to hear exactly the same thing in both ears, when listening to a mono recording, e.g most speech on Youtube, or in podcasts.

12. Ear Imbalance. Do both of our ears have the same frequency response?, and is there any hearing loss in any ear, or variation in hearing. Or is there any variation in the frequency response of the ear pieces, or do we have both ear and earpiece variations, happening at the same time?

13. Stereo Width - Sometimes I abandon the Crossfeed and use a plugin, which narrows the width somewhat - ReaSurround, but I am not sure if this has crossfeed or not. the result can sound pretty intimate.

Sum of the parts is truly greater than all of them individually. I wish those starting out could have this kind of end-to-end optimisation guidance, so they do not waste time or money, getting it right.

(as I typed this I had another Eureka moment - Norah Jones - Walking my baby back home - demo, on the Disc 2 of the Super Deluxe Edition of the album - Come Away with me. ) Phenomenal track - one of the best things I have ever heard on a recording. Truly amazing. when heard through all the optimisations listed above. The entire album is a hallmark of excellent musicianship, recording, mixing, mastering, arrangement, singing - just top notch. The production quality of the tracks added to the deluxe edition, which were NOT in the initial album, seem to have an even higher quality of sonics - my thinking is that they were mixed with much better gear which had become available in more recent years, and also mixed with less pressure - Especially when I added the crossfeed, this album literally comes to life, the more. Awesome.

 

[OK1]

Haven't tried Zero 2. I tried the $150 Nova and prefer $80 Hexa. I've tried Etymotic ER4S which costs $300 that I didn't like much. I can't comment on things I haven't tried in person. Maybe there is a set for $400 that I would like better than Hexa, maybe not. I'm not in any hurry to find out.

While I do not belittle, the potential improvement that more expensive IEMs could provide, I think beyond a certain outlay, the effort and expense and time, should be invested in many other components that contribute to definite improvements in the end result, rather than think that the IEM alone is a single factor to sonic quality. The IEM is just one, an important item, but just one in the chain.

I've just listed the elements of the chain, that have helped me hear so much better, in another post, so will NOT repeat here.

 

[Mr Swing King]

Haven't tried Zero 2. I tried the $150 Nova and prefer $80 Hexa. I've tried Etymotic ER4S which costs $300 that I didn't like much. I can't comment on things I haven't tried in person. Maybe there is a set for $400 that I would like better than Hexa, maybe not. I'm not in any hurry to find out.

I just find it hard to believe that we’re going to better the type of performance you can get for as low as 20-30$ in the iem world. That means nigh on perfect tuning (depending on the difference between folks’ ears) and very very low distortion numbers.
All of this can be had in this price range. I see no evidence of better sound/performance once you climb the price ladder. Heck most reviews over ASR underline the same.
To me personally it ends up being a matter of preference/fit..and with the plethora of exceptionally performing iems around 20-30$, there really is no (scientific) reason to spend more unless one likes a certain type of look…which again is perfectly alright. It just becomes more about something ‘other’ than actual sound quality imho

 

[markanini]

Damn, KZ made this? Quick impressions of EDC Pro. Lows are very good. Highs are slightly thin, other than that mostly clean. Stagning is good. Issues that I've come to associate with bassy sets, and KZ sets, are mostly absent. Basically, it's a decently executed warm U-shaped tuning, so it's not neutral and you can tell that drums and male voices have a little less muscle, flattering low frequency instruments like bass drums and bass guitar with an impact you did not expect from an IEM.

I original motivation to get this was from the feedback of people in this thread, but another thing that made me order was because of how it graphs:

That's the most compliant to USound target I've seen on that rig, wihtin +- 1.5dB below 6kHz. USound is a product of developing IEM tuning preferences with background noise present. Basically for portable use. Some sets other sets that were tuned close to USound were well received for their bass, Kefine Delci, Sony XBA-N3, Blon Z300 and Dunu DaVinci. So, I had to see what the fuss is about, and I'm glad I did.

 

[mc.god]

Damn, KZ made this? Quick impressions of EDC Pro. Lows are very good. Highs are slightly thin, other than that mostly clean. Stagning is good. Issues that I've come to associate with bassy sets, and KZ sets, are mostly absent. Basically, it's a decently executed warm U-shaped tuning, so it's not neutral and you can tell that drums and male voices have a little less muscle, flattering low frequency instruments like bass drums and bass guitar with an impact you did not expect from an IEM.

I original motivation to get this was from the feedback of people in this thread, but another thing that made me order was because of how it graphs:
View attachment 384914

That's the most compliant to USound target I've seen on that rig, wihtin +- 1.5dB below 6kHz. USound is a product of developing IEM tuning preferences with background noise present. Basically for portable use. Some sets other sets that were tuned close to USound were well received for their bass, Kefine Delci, Sony XBA-N3, Blon Z300 and Dunu DaVinci. So, I had to see what the fuss is about, and I'm glad I did.

I mostly agree, after some hours of usage I can confirm that for normal quiet listening at home the bass is really too much for my preference, and summed with the low pinna gain and noticeable 8K peak they result too much v-shaped and pumped to my ears, I definitely prefer something like Gate and 7Hz Zero.
Nonetheless I'm sure they'll be perfect during my job commute on noisy bus and streets, I'm going to prove it in a couple of days.

 

[muza_1]

Damn, KZ made this? Quick impressions of EDC Pro. Lows are very good. Highs are slightly thin, other than that mostly clean. Stagning is good. Issues that I've come to associate with bassy sets, and KZ sets, are mostly absent. Basically, it's a decently executed warm U-shaped tuning, so it's not neutral and you can tell that drums and male voices have a little less muscle, flattering low frequency instruments like bass drums and bass guitar with an impact you did not expect from an IEM.

I original motivation to get this was from the feedback of people in this thread, but another thing that made me order was because of how it graphs:
View attachment 384914

That's the most compliant to USound target I've seen on that rig, wihtin +- 1.5dB below 6kHz. USound is a product of developing IEM tuning preferences with background noise present. Basically for portable use. Some sets other sets that were tuned close to USound were well received for their bass, Kefine Delci, Sony XBA-N3, Blon Z300 and Dunu DaVinci. So, I had to see what the fuss is about, and I'm glad I did.

I have tried EQ some of my sets to the Usound target and never really like them but the curious thing is that this are my favorite IEM now, to me the balance is perfect, I also think fit and design are really influential, to me some shallow fitting models like the Delci or Zero:2 sound bright and fatiguing in spite of being of similar tuning also short nozzles are way more tip sensitive to me.

This might not be the best sounding IEMs but the sound is pleasant and relaxed especially for long periods of use.

 

[markanini]

Fit is perfect for me, definitely better than Zero 2 and Chu 2 which are the other bassy budget IEMs. Someone on Discord server said EDC Pro is the audio equivalent of a burger meal, lol. Directionally it's telling me I want to explore more U-shaped IEMs in the future when it can sound this good. Maybe not fully as U shaped as EDC Pro is, but at least partially vs. a neutral tuning signature that's my usual preference.

 

[muza_1]

For me is not as comfortable as the Delci but is not bad, I think because I listen mostly outdoors the amount of bass is perfect for me, for indoors I've been using the TRN Orca (UUD) which is closer to Harman than EDC Pro (the graph looks closer than the actual sound, the bass is overstated for the Orca, about -2dB I guess).

Also I think my preference is for single DD, they gave me the impression of listening to speakers more than any other type.

 

[OK1]

Damn, KZ made this? Quick impressions of EDC Pro. Lows are very good. Highs are slightly thin, other than that mostly clean. Stagning is good. Issues that I've come to associate with bassy sets, and KZ sets, are mostly absent. Basically, it's a decently executed warm U-shaped tuning, so it's not neutral and you can tell that drums and male voices have a little less muscle, flattering low frequency instruments like bass drums and bass guitar with an impact you did not expect from an IEM.

I original motivation to get this was from the feedback of people in this thread, but another thing that made me order was because of how it graphs:
View attachment 384914

That's the most compliant to USound target I've seen on that rig, wihtin +- 1.5dB below 6kHz. USound is a product of developing IEM tuning preferences with background noise present. Basically for portable use. Some sets other sets that were tuned close to USound were well received for their bass, Kefine Delci, Sony XBA-N3, Blon Z300 and Dunu DaVinci. So, I had to see what the fuss is about, and I'm glad I did.

Is this KZ EDC Pro, Good and balanced, compared to other IEMs - OR - Good for the price?

 

[OK1]

Fit is perfect for me, definitely better than Zero 2 and Chu 2 which are the other bassy budget IEMs. Someone on Discord server said EDC Pro is the audio equivalent of a burger meal, lol. Directionally it's telling me I want to explore more U-shaped IEMs in the future when it can sound this good. Maybe not fully as U shaped as EDC Pro is, but at least partially vs. a neutral tuning signature that's my usual preference.

If you had to pick only one of the three - Zero 2, Chu 2 OR KZ EDC Pro, for a balanced tuning, for listening indoors, which would you choose?

 

[markanini]

Is this KZ EDC Pro, Good and balanced, compared to other IEMs - OR - Good for the price?

For $10 it's a great value. Not balanced but a cleanly executed U-shaped tuning that's fun and engaging.

If you had to pick only one of the three - Zero 2, Chu 2 OR KZ EDC Pro, for a balanced tuning, for listening indoors, which would you choose?

My comments on fit are based on owning Zero 1, Chu 1 and Lan and their shared share the fit properties with Chu 2 and Zero 2.
I only owned EDC Pro so I can't really compare the sound. This reviewer compares the three sets you are asking about regarding sound:

 

[OK1]

For $10 it's a great value. Not balanced but a cleanly executed U-shaped tuning that's fun and engaging.

My comments on fit are based on owning Zero 1, Chu 1 and Lan and their shared share the fit properties with Chu 2 and Zero 2.
I only owned EDC Pro so I can't really compare the sound. This reviewer compares the three sets you are asking about regarding sound:

Thanks.

 

[OK1]

For $10 it's a great value. Not balanced but a cleanly executed U-shaped tuning that's fun and engaging.

My comments on fit are based on owning Zero 1, Chu 1 and Lan and their shared share the fit properties with Chu 2 and Zero 2.
I only owned EDC Pro so I can't really compare the sound. This reviewer compares the three sets you are asking about regarding sound:

Placed myself on an embargo. No more buying ant IEM's at or near regular prices, until either Xmas 2024 or January 2025, or should I say no more unless its an IEM that is on my wish list and is also on sale at a price, that is a steal. I now have 4 IEM's - CCA CRA, KX ZVX, Artti T10, and CCA Polaris, bought in a space of 2 months interval. From a previous position where I had no proper IEM's. Between these I should have enough listening options, especially with the latter 3. If anything will be bought, over the next 6 months, ear tips, cos I have found that these can be pretty significant in determining the final frequency response.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome is real. There are so many IEMS, Cables, and Eartips, and Cases out there. Without discipline, I see that it is possible to spend far too much on these things. The options are endless - 99.99% silver cables, for not too much money, of course I have not bought any, but there is so much temptation out there. Far too much gear on offer.

 

[Tell]

Placed myself on an embargo. No more buying ant IEM's at or near regular prices, until either Xmas 2024 or January 2025, or should I say no more unless its an IEM that is on my wish list and is also on sale at a price, that is a steal. I now have 4 IEM's - CCA CRA, KX ZVX, Artti T10, and CCA Polaris, bought in a space of 2 months interval. From a previous position where I had no proper IEM's. Between these I should have enough listening options, especially with the latter 3. If anything will be bought, over the next 6 months, ear tips, cos I have found that these can be pretty significant in determining the final frequency response.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome is real. There are so many IEMS, Cables, and Eartips, and Cases out there. Without discipline, I see that it is possible to spend far too much on these things. The options are endless - 99.99% silver cables, for not too much money, of course I have not bought any, but there is so much temptation out there. Far too much gear on offer.

Can I ask what the temptation is to buy all these IEMs? What is it that you're seeking? I personally bought the Zero 2 because of the low distortion and relatively flat curve to be able to EQ them to whatever I want them to sound, so I don't see any reason whatsoever sound quality wise to buy anything else ever.

 

[OK1]

Can I ask what the temptation is to buy all these IEMs? What is it that you're seeking? I personally bought the Zero 2 because of the low distortion and relatively flat curve to be able to EQ them to whatever I want them to sound, so I don't see any reason whatsoever sound quality wise to buy anything else ever.

1. The 1st part is education on IEM's. Teaching my ear/brain. What does a single dynamic DD sound like? What does a planar magnetic sound like? What does a hybrid with Balanced Armature sound like.

2. Two of my IEM's have a major issue, I cannot reliably EQ them, based on any measurements, cos there are no measurements available to me - cos the manufacturer KZ/CCA modified the copies I received, after they had been reviewed and measured.!! So while I own 4 IEM's - I cannot reliably have any chance of optimising 2 of them using EQ, in the manner I would have wanted. I simply was unlucky to have bought 2 IEM's where the manufacturer has not been consistent. I bought both of these disappointing IEM's cos they were cheap, on very tempting price drops - bad idea. If I had done more research, like you I'd have gotten a Zero 2 and/or a Moondrop Chu 2, and be done with it. So these two are lessons learnt.

3 I uses an Apple dongle for calls, because my premium dongle which I use for critical listening, does not support microphones. But the Apple dongle has a quirk. Without an IEM plugged in, that device is disabled from the Windows. So one of the IEM's is permanently connected to the Apple dongle cos of this quirk- just for online call, so I can make or receive calls without losing incoming calls or fussing with swapping an IEM from one dongle to another.

4. The ultimate aim for now is to have 3 (1 single DD, one planar magnetic, and one hybrid) which I can use as my listening references. At this time I think I have achieved one of these objectives. The Artti T10 is the planar magnetic I'm satisfied with. Hoping the CCA Polaris to be delivered soon - can fulfil the role of the single DD. Most likely acquisition of the hybrid, will be deferred to sometime in 2025.

 

[OK1]

This IEM habit can become addictive. Just totalled up my expenditure. Over £110 of total orders in 2 months. One needs to add these things up, it adds up quickly. If I was asked to spend £100 on a single item, it would be a hard sell, but the drip feed - £2 or £3 here e.g for cases, £7 to £11 per budget KZ, on another item, £30 for a DAC, a planar for £40+ and individually, it is small expenses, but one has to be careful. Must stop spending. Consolation is - I can look at the expense so far as - learning curve expenses. Investment to learn what's out there. Is there any other way I could have learnt what each of these pieces of gear sound like - unfortunately not. Benefit - now have a variety of gear to make informed comparisons., and have gear that serves as a reference, to better understand what reviewers and contributors are describing or measuring. Every learning curve has some sunk cost in time/money or both.

It is still early days. Been listening to the CCA Polaris for about an hour. It may still improve, we'll see. I'll do a "burn in" overnight, for a few days.

1st impressions. The enemy of good is better. Overall the sound signature is more balanced straight out of the box, than the KZ ZVX and definitely more balanced than the CCA CRA. But it has 4 dip switches, and I have left these on the off-off-off-off setting. By default it is shipped set to on-on-on-on. EQ with AutoEQ does add a certain something.

Verdict. Glad I bothered, as part of my own education. It has its uses, it is definitely better than the cheap ear buds, but after listening to an Artti T10, the CCA Polaris is NOT in the same league. The purpose for the CCA Polaris was to have a KZ IEM, which I knew had not been revisioned silently, so should I wish to EQ based on measurements available in the public domain.

It's one or more of a few things.

1. Poor design
2. Inferior materials
3. Needs burn in time
4. This is the nature of all dynamic driver based IEMs
5. There has been a manufacturing defect in my copy..

Just sounds a bit like listening to audio on a telephone, constricted, with or without EQ, that veil of "flatness" overshadows everything. Absolutely no sense of depth at all, None whatsoever. Everything is presented in a plane on the same straight line, with no sense whatsoever of back to front illusion, in the placement of instruments. None. Reminds me of what people call a Tannoy in the UK, which is like calling a vacuum cleaner a Hoover. A Tannoy would be any public address system, e.g at a train station. Nowadays they are much better these public address speakers. But you get what I mean, harsh, one dimensional, not clear at all. definitely grating in my ear, not pleasant at all. Definitely the worst sounding KZ/CCA I have heard.

In order from best to worst Artti T10 definitely an improvement over the KZ ZVX I have (the revision ZVX) which is a definite improvement over the CCA CRA (also a revision - the 2023 one) and this is night and day better than the CCA Polaris - which if this is what an IEM sounds like, I can imagine that no one in the world would ever buy one, or listen to one. I'd rather listen to the Apple EarPod, than the CCA Polaris. It just sounds compressed and distorted. I'll give it a chance for a few days, and if there is no improvement, I'll see if I can send it back and get a refund, or keep it as an example of what a bad IEM sounds like.

There also seems to be a theme - the KZ ZVX, and the CCA Polaris, do not come with any eartips which provide a good seal, so I have to use one of the eartips from the Artti T10. Yeah at this time, the CCA Polaris just sounds terrible. And I have not had this perception with the KZ ZVX or the CCA CRA.

My oh my - going back to listen to the Artti T10 is like - OM Goodness, now this is what audio is supposed to sound like. Super clear, gone is the grit, scratchiness, and gone is the one dimensional audio. I can place everything in a left to right, front to back, and almost a top to bottom - Now instruments and voices gain a size dimension also. some things sound small and pin point, others are large. My oh my. No going back.

KZ/CCA seem like a bit of a lottery. Near hits and misses. I'd think of the KZ ZVX as "passable". Finding it hard to explain how unsatisfactory the CCA Polaris is. Been there got the T-Shirt. No more KZ/CCA's no matter how fantastic the reviewers say they are!!!.. Done with the brands. I have the T10 to blame for this conclusion it is simply on another level of clarity - even the KZ ZVX sounds compressed and distorted, in comparison, to the T10.

No regrets, glad I did all of this. Sure a lot of this is sunk cost, but how else does one learn, without experiencing these things for one's self. Sadly after 3 dynamic driver IEM's, and discovering how head and shoulders above them, a planar magnetic is, in comparison, I am not inclined to bother with any more dynamic driver IEM's, from any budget categories, regardless of manufacturer.

The difference in sound reminds me of dynamic vs condenser microphones, albeit planar magnetics are not similar to the transducer technology of condensers. The improvement in clarity of the T10 over the KZ/CCA dynamics I have bought is astonishing. Unfortunately someone on ASR just bought a T10, and it seems their copy was faulty and they have to return it, so not sure what is going on with IEM's and quality control.!!

 

[OK1]

Balance between left and right. Yesterday, I almost gave up on listening to stereo headphones or IEMS, cos I had been experiencing some issues with balance.

On one occasion it turned out to be my TempoTec Sonata BHD which needed a disconnect, to improve stereo balance. Strange. but true.

I had been listening to the Artti T10 and needed to adjust the stereo, more to the right.

Then using both an audio analyzer in my DAW (SPAN), and mono function in the DAW, I have learnt that :

1. My CCA CRA is skewed to the right, needing a rebalancing to the left
2. My Artti T10 is skewed slightly to the left, needing a slight rebalancing to the right. Feel a bit of a frequency difference also, which may partly explain the feeling of imbalance. Do not think I will bother to attempt to re-equalise both sides to a similar frequency response, Ideally I would need a good tool to measure this more accurately, so I'm working not based on guesswork.
3. The KZ ZVX is ever so slightly skewed to the left, needing a small tweak towards the right.

Saved stereo balancing presets for each of these.

Prior to sorting out this anomaly, went to bed yesterday night, thinking I had developed some distressing hearing imbalance, somewhat depressing, and thought that many things I do which depend on good hearing, were over. Relieved that it's most likely more of the IEM's at fault, than my ears.

 

[OK1]

KZ ZVX, update. Spent one night with them in my ears when I went to bed, connected to a smartphone, listening to Youtube videos. By the morning, the balance was skewed to the left. Now definitely unusable. Checked balance on the same smartphone, with another IEM - CCA CRA (2023 revision), balance was OK, so its definitely the ZVX - not a very durable IEM. Will check, when I have time, is it the cable that went bad or the IEM itself.!!